The Total Inability of 49er Fans to Understand Receiver Performance

Originally posted by HearstFan:

Originally posted by ReceiverPwnage:

HearstFan is another example. If you think Crabtree shies from contact....you haven't watched him play. That has to be the most retarded thing I have ever heard. As for not a "gamebreaker".....a 5.2 YAC average sounds good to me, but of course not good enough for the pathetic alex fans.

You're right, having not missed a game in 7 years, and only 3 since 1979, I haven't watched enough play. And with game rewind on NFL, with the luxury of being able to rewatch specific plays over and over, again, you are right.

Why don't you create a Crab's highlight real of him being a #1 caliber receiver? Show me where he breaks free, dominates coverage, etc. Good luch with that, you won't find it. Oh wait, he caught that one long reception last season for a TD - as did a hundred other no-name receivers that got lucky on one play last year, and they are all #1s too.

He can't hear you.

Originally posted by HearstFan:

Originally posted by ReceiverPwnage:
HearstFan is another example. If you think Crabtree shies from contact....you haven't watched him play. That has to be the most retarded thing I have ever heard. As for not a "gamebreaker".....a 5.2 YAC average sounds good to me, but of course not good enough for the pathetic alex fans.

You're right, having not missed a game in 7 years, and only 3 since 1979, I haven't watched enough play. And with game rewind on NFL, with the luxury of being able to rewatch specific plays over and over, again, you are right.

Why don't you create a Crab's highlight real of him being a #1 caliber receiver? Show me where he breaks free, dominates coverage, etc. Good luch with that, you won't find it. Oh wait, he caught that one long reception last season for a TD - as did a hundred other no-name receivers that got lucky on one play last year, and they are all #1s too.

lol don't feed the troll hearst and crabtree does get shy at times at other times he takes the hit he is really inconsistent in that area IMO... as for drafting fleener i like the idea but i would love to keep walker just because of how diverse he is we can put him just about anywhere and he would be servicable

Originally posted by hofer36:
you undervalue delay walker imo as his contributions in run game and formation versatility have to be considered

OK. So he has value as a blocking tight end. Big f-ing deal. If that's what you wanted, we should have kept Bear Pascoe and cut Walker!

Betcha Fleener can or will block as well as Walker, the converted WR.

Originally posted by nickbradley:

Originally posted by pd24:
I

It's funny that you made this thread and put Moss at 1 and a guy that might be cut at 4. A 1st round rookie can be anywhere from 2 to 4 on the Niners Depth chart. Players also get hurt, how did Swain work out stat wise last year? You want to look that up? You make it seem as though we have the best WR core ever, but if you look around the NFL a rookie WR gets playing time every year from teams that draft a WR in the first 3 rounds. Moss at number 1...lol

1. Swain is a scrub

2. So you draft a rookie in the first round to cut moss? huh? What happens if Moss is good? Oh, that's right: The rookie doesn't suit up.

Maybe Williams gets cut. He does get hurt alot, he starts to play good and then gets hurt in is out a game or 2. You do know that Williams can be replaced and that he might be the first to get cut if they draft a WR. He barley made the team last year. Last WR in means 1st WR out with a talent upgrade.

Originally posted by pd24:
Maybe Williams gets cut. He does get hurt alot, he starts to play good and then gets hurt in is out a game or 2. You do know that Williams can be replaced and that he might be the first to get cut if they draft a WR. He barley made the team last year. Last WR in means 1st WR out with a talent upgrade.

OK, stop the Denial. In the receiving game, Williams is a stud.

Originally posted by nickbradley:

Originally posted by pd24:
Maybe Williams gets cut. He does get hurt alot, he starts to play good and then gets hurt in is out a game or 2. You do know that Williams can be replaced and that he might be the first to get cut if they draft a WR. He barley made the team last year. Last WR in means 1st WR out with a talent upgrade.

OK, stop the Denial. In the receiving game, Williams is a stud.

And now i must stop posting in this thread, the last WR to make the team is no stud. I assume the tittle you picked is talking about yourself?

Nick you are right with the statement that confidense comes with time, and for crabtree to become the #1 we all hope he will be and some believe he already is, he will need to put in the offseason work with smith same with moss, manningham, williams, and whoever it is we sign whether a te like some are so sure of or a wr like the others are, but unless he works with the man passing the ball to him, I would guarentee he will be off to another slow start yet again.

didn't extrapolate the trend, lol

Originally posted by pete98146:
Much of what you are saying here depends heavily on the ability of Alex Smith to throw the ball into coverage and trust his receivers to come down with the catch (especially when you are talking about Moss and Manningham). This is NOT NOT NOT Alex's stength. Unless forced to do so, he'll wait for the receiver to become open and then deliver the pass. So I don't care if you have Calvin Johnson on the 49ers, until Alex can learn to make the tougher throws it's back to status quo.

Now, much of the conservative nature has been dictated by Jim Harbaugh so it's the ultimate Catch 22.

Time will tell if Harbaugh gives Alex more freedom to make the difficult throws or does he want Alex to stay in "Safe Mode." From what I see, you have one receiver who struggles to get any separation off the line (Crabtree) and two others that aren't known for running precise routes but then can go up and pluck the ball away from the defender on the intermediate/long throws (Moss and Manningham). So hate the be the devils advocate, but we still don't have a receiver other than Vernon that plays into Alex's power zone ie short to intermediate passes where the receiver gets quick separation (Wes Welker types).

I'm praying I'm wrong here. Alex DID make some very good tosses when he had too. Hope a lot of that confidence carries forward to next year. Fact of the matter is we need to improve in 3rd down/RZ effeciency. Adding a Fleener might help pay immediate dividends too.

Agree 100% - except I hope Manningham can be that over the middle guy.

To your point -- I have to believe that the goal for the offense this year is to "break out" of the ultra-conservative mode. IMHO, JH was guiding ASmith in the headset before plays with fairly conservative reads and guidance on not turning the ball over. This year, I suspect that changes to guidance to take some shots, be more aggressive. I expect they will reassure him that an INT (except in critical situations) is not the end of the world.

The true test of ASmith this season, that I believe the coaching staff will be evaluating carefully, is whether ASmith has it in him to take his shots, "pull the trigger." IF ASmith just won't get aggressive and take advantage of aggressive play calls, then the staff will be looking for a transition to CK to see if he can do it. IF ASmith can do it, this could be a break out year for him -- finishing with 25 TD and 15 INT, 3300+ yards, 11-5 record would be a HUGE breakthrough.

[It reminds me of Phil Simms story with Parcels and the Giants -- Simms tells how he had become so gun shy with Parcels berating him that he wouldn't throw the ball. Finally, Simms said Parcels told him just before they left the tunnel to start a game, "Just throw the f**king ball, I don't care if you throw 4 INTs" (or something like that) and Simms said that was the turning point in his career for the better.]

Let's see.....

Crabtree - hasn't lived up to his own hype, of course starting with his b******t holdout and his lack of offseason work and preseason work has hurt the team BIG TIME. If he and Alex were on a better page, we would all be praising him. So right now as the 10th overall selection (in a draft where you could of had Hakeem Nicks) he's not looking too good. Also his speed isn't up to par. SO HOPEFULLY this guy has a healthy offseason and comes back a better player and ready to take it to the next level. I do think that he has been hurt by the Niners not having enough weapons. So right now, he's not looking like a great selection.

Williams - Man I was really happy for him to get into the line up more and then he has to deal with the Championship Game for the rest of his career. I wouldn't be comfortable with him back there. Now should he take all of the blame......I can't say that because I don't know what the coaches were telling him. It stinks because we had the best special teams in the league last year and special teams KILLED us in the championship game. I think some fault has to go on the coaches because he SHOULD HAVE GOT THE HELL AWAY FROM THE BALL or they needed to tell him, on a wet field with the lead, to just get away from the ball. But he has to do some big things next year for the fans to forget. Overall, he's a young player but he not a threat yet.

Manningham - You posted these stats "Manningham was the 16th Best WR in 2010? And that he caught 65% of passes thrown his direction that year? And that he only caught 51% of targeted passes in 2011? He was hurt all year, and Cruz got the better routes to run. Manningham may end up being the steal of Free Agency." Is the 16th best receiver good? Not sure about that. Is catching 51% of passes last year good? I don't think so. Then you say he might be the steal of FA. I think Manningham is a good addition to the team and here's why, I think he has made some great clutch catches last year. He's not afraid to go get the ball and I heard he's a good blocker. I have also heard that he doesn't run good routes but I haven't done an analyis on that. However, Manning is a much better passer than Smith. So he makes his receivers even better than they are. I would have liked for them to resign Joshua Morgan, but I think Washington overpaid for him. But Overall we needed another receiver because Moss is a Wildcard.

Randy Moss - The only guy with a worse rep would have been TO to bring to the Niners. On the positive side, he came out of retirement, he wants to play, he's not signing for huge money so it's not about money and the way the contract is structured, it's a NO LOSE investment. The key is that he's got something to prove with the way he went out of the league and probably motivated to gain more stats for all time ranking. If Randy Moss can stretch the field for us like Ted Ginn did for us and Randy is a much more dangerous threat than Ginn, then he can he a HUGE ASSET. He's a red zone target, deep threat, he's got great hands (unlike TO). He has a fantastic football IQ so he understands the game and can be a real threat in a thinking man's west coast offense. Here are the negatives, he can be a cancer, he can take plays off, is he going to be the same player as he was, he doesn't block......and we don't throw the ball a lot right now hopefully that will change and can be like the old West coast, throw to set up the run.


Walker - Here's what you said about Walker "Everyone thinks Walker is dominant, but it is a *Myth*. DVOA of -7% in 2011, 0.3% in 2010, and a horrid -20% in 2009. Totally replaceable, and not on par with other teams that run 2 TEs. You replace him with Coby Fleener (bump walker to 3rd TE), and productivity shoots up!" As far as Delanie goes, he was the Key to our offense last year. Check out the article below and you will see all of the things that he did for us.

I don't know why he wasn't used more as a weapon, he was used more with as a decoy. So I still think he will be a key player for us next year, but GUARANTEED the Niners DRAFT A TE. I would love to have Fleener because the Niners don't have the "gronkowski" type of player. We need bigger targets. Moss will help, but how many years will he play.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204346104576637441229847906.html

Originally posted by NinerDieHard:

Originally posted by HearstFan:

Originally posted by ReceiverPwnage:
HearstFan is another example. If you think Crabtree shies from contact....you haven't watched him play. That has to be the most retarded thing I have ever heard. As for not a "gamebreaker".....a 5.2 YAC average sounds good to me, but of course not good enough for the pathetic alex fans.

You're right, having not missed a game in 7 years, and only 3 since 1979, I haven't watched enough play. And with game rewind on NFL, with the luxury of being able to rewatch specific plays over and over, again, you are right.

Why don't you create a Crab's highlight real of him being a #1 caliber receiver? Show me where he breaks free, dominates coverage, etc. Good luch with that, you won't find it. Oh wait, he caught that one long reception last season for a TD - as did a hundred other no-name receivers that got lucky on one play last year, and they are all #1s too.

lol don't feed the troll hearst and crabtree does get shy at times at other times he takes the hit he is really inconsistent in that area IMO... as for drafting fleener i like the idea but i would love to keep walker just because of how diverse he is we can put him just about anywhere and he would be servicable

Now that is funny and good advice -- "Don't feed the troll" -- LOL

Williams is far from a stud so far, but he is still young and has a lot of learning to do. But he also wasn't the last receiver in on contract with us from last year, Hastings is.

Originally posted by LoneWolf:
Williams is far from a stud so far, but he is still young and has a lot of learning to do. But he also wasn't the last receiver in on contract with us from last year, Hastings is.

Out of camp he was.

And about the depth chart thing, at the end of the season we had 5 suiting up not 4 crabtree, ginn, williams, swain, and hastings so there is plenty of space for a rookie on our squad as of now.

Pd24 yes but not from the season. And since williams has production, pretty good production in the receiver spot I think it will be his again.