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Hypothetical, if the Niners draft Fleener at #30, would Delanie Walker have any trade valu

Originally posted by Fal_Mc11:
Trading Walker would make no sense. Come to think of it, TE in the 1st round makes no sense as well. The only way we are picking up this kid is the following. We don't get a WR in free agency, there is no clear #1 WR at that point in the draft, we dont have another major hole to fill like CB, and the BPA at that point is TE. I doubt it, its more likely we will trade up and get a WR, pick BPA, or trade back.

Whixh round did the Pats get their TE?
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by Fal_Mc11:
Trading Walker would make no sense. Come to think of it, TE in the 1st round makes no sense as well. The only way we are picking up this kid is the following. We don't get a WR in free agency, there is no clear #1 WR at that point in the draft, we dont have another major hole to fill like CB, and the BPA at that point is TE. I doubt it, its more likely we will trade up and get a WR, pick BPA, or trade back.

Whixh round did the Pats get their TE?

Gronkowski: 2nd round (42nd overall)

Hernandez: 4th round (113th overall)
[ Edited by FILTHpigskin on Feb 29, 2012 at 3:36 PM ]
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by Youngb:
Originally posted by wysiwyg:
You don't trade Delanie.

If we draft Fleener at #30, it is because we got a good WR (Meachem, Garcon, etc) as FA and somebody jaw dropping isn't there.

VD came on at the end of the year and was THE monster in the playoffs. By his own admission, he didn't really get the offense until the end.

Walker was so clutch all year, as a "wham" blocker, special teams demon, and TE. That catch against DET was epic.

Fleener knows the offense. To draft him would take what the Pats did (Aaron / Gronk) and take it up a notch. Each brings something different. Fleener would be the big (6'6") redzone target. Vernon with his jump seam route.

Dare I say it but we'd be the first team to have a Slot TE (D-Love) instead of a Slot Wr. Since Delanie was a WR, it is not too much of a stretch.

I say do it.

That is what I've been thinking ever since Harbaugh joined. I know he was big into TEs and ours are extremely talented. Go 3 TE, all capable receivers, with Gore in the backfield. What are we gonna do? The D either goes big and gets burnt by the TEs or stay base and get steamrolled. The possibilities are endless. I'm excited for next year.

Its not that easy. Defense would double Vernon, cover Fleener with a Safety which leaves Delanie matched up with a CB and the defense can stay in base.

Delanie has never had even an aberage year and i dont think he can beat NFL DBs or he would have been drafted as a WR. All he really can do is that short slant acros the field and an occasional FB wheel type of route. I was really high on Delanie in he past but dude is not tall enough to catch jump balls over backers and DB and hes not fast enough to birn DBs. His routes and success highly depend on Vernon or another player clearing out, which isnt very difficult to replace at all.

Then you run the ball.

But in your scenario the wideout on the field is being single covered, Vernon is being doubled with a LB and a Safety over top, Fleener is covered by a Strong Safety a matchup we want, Delainie is bigger than any corner, and if you put Hunter on the field he is being covered by whom?

There are mis-matches everywhere and that's without accounting for the fact that we could just run the ball.
Originally posted by DonnieDarko:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Its not that easy. Defense would double Vernon, cover Fleener with a Safety which leaves Delanie matched up with a CB and the defense can stay in base.

Delanie has never had even an aberage year and i dont think he can beat NFL DBs or he would have been drafted as a WR. All he really can do is that short slant acros the field and an occasional FB wheel type of route. I was really high on Delanie in he past but dude is not tall enough to catch jump balls over backers and DB and hes not fast enough to birn DBs. His routes and success highly depend on Vernon or another player clearing out, which isnt very difficult to replace at all.

they better hope their safety is 6'4'' or taller lol

Exactly what I was thinking, we win in that scenario...just throw it up to Fleener because safetys are short! In the future, defenses would have trouble deciding who to double cover: Flash 85 or Tall Ass Flee? I love the possibilities.
  • sfout
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 6,251
No if we draft Fleener, Walker will actually become his true position of H-back and simply replace Moran Norris as the back-up FB but still remain heavily involved in the offense as the 3rd or 4th TE along with VD, Fleener and the winner of the Reuland/Byham fight.
Originally posted by TheGoldStandard:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by Youngb:
Originally posted by wysiwyg:
You don't trade Delanie.

If we draft Fleener at #30, it is because we got a good WR (Meachem, Garcon, etc) as FA and somebody jaw dropping isn't there.

VD came on at the end of the year and was THE monster in the playoffs. By his own admission, he didn't really get the offense until the end.

Walker was so clutch all year, as a "wham" blocker, special teams demon, and TE. That catch against DET was epic.

Fleener knows the offense. To draft him would take what the Pats did (Aaron / Gronk) and take it up a notch. Each brings something different. Fleener would be the big (6'6") redzone target. Vernon with his jump seam route.

Dare I say it but we'd be the first team to have a Slot TE (D-Love) instead of a Slot Wr. Since Delanie was a WR, it is not too much of a stretch.

I say do it.

That is what I've been thinking ever since Harbaugh joined. I know he was big into TEs and ours are extremely talented. Go 3 TE, all capable receivers, with Gore in the backfield. What are we gonna do? The D either goes big and gets burnt by the TEs or stay base and get steamrolled. The possibilities are endless. I'm excited for next year.

Its not that easy. Defense would double Vernon, cover Fleener with a Safety which leaves Delanie matched up with a CB and the defense can stay in base.

Delanie has never had even an aberage year and i dont think he can beat NFL DBs or he would have been drafted as a WR. All he really can do is that short slant acros the field and an occasional FB wheel type of route. I was really high on Delanie in he past but dude is not tall enough to catch jump balls over backers and DB and hes not fast enough to birn DBs. His routes and success highly depend on Vernon or another player clearing out, which isnt very difficult to replace at all.

Then you run the ball.

But in your scenario the wideout on the field is being single covered, Vernon is being doubled with a LB and a Safety over top, Fleener is covered by a Strong Safety a matchup we want, Delainie is bigger than any corner, and if you put Hunter on the field he is being covered by whom?

There are mis-matches everywhere and that's without accounting for the fact that we could just run the ball.

Yes but let us not forget the most important ingredient...a QB with the balls to throw an accurate jump ball.
What does drafting Fleener do with Byham?... I do not watch college football. Are they similar? If byham is a player then we might be best served 2 draft 2 wideouts ...
Originally posted by sfout:
No if we draft Fleener, Walker will actually become his true position of H-back and simply replace Moran Norris as the back-up FB but still remain heavily involved in the offense as the 3rd or 4th TE along with VD, Fleener and the winner of the Reuland/Byham fight.

I agree with this statement
Originally posted by FILTHpigskin:
Originally posted by sfout:
No if we draft Fleener, Walker will actually become his true position of H-back and simply replace Moran Norris as the back-up FB but still remain heavily involved in the offense as the 3rd or 4th TE along with VD, Fleener and the winner of the Reuland/Byham fight.

I agree with this statement

I guess I could see how he'd back up Bruce at FB...but Walker is a WR with a TE's body. He really is great at blocking and causes mismatches in coverage when he goes out on routes.. He's able to take advantage of those times when VD is doubled. I think this becomes even more important when we add another WR to compliment Crabtree.

Crabtree
Morgan / Rookie Stud WR
VD
Walker
Gore
B. Miller


That's a lot of different weapons that could be on the field at any given time.

I didn't put Ginn or Williams on there because I am hoping they get pushed to the bottom of the Depth Chart.
  • cciowa
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 24,708
Originally posted by Jakemall:
I guess I could see how he'd back up Bruce at FB...but Walker is a WR with a TE's body. He really is great at blocking and causes mismatches in coverage when he goes out on routes.. He's able to take advantage of those times when VD is doubled. I think this becomes even more important when we add another WR to compliment Crabtree.

Crabtree
Morgan / Rookie Stud WR
VD
Walker
Gore
B. Miller


That's a lot of different weapons that could be on the field at any given time.

I didn't put Ginn or Williams on there because I am hoping they get pushed to the bottom of the Depth Chart.
i do not think ginn or williams will be on the team next year, they can easily be replaced but of course you must make sure you get a punt and kick returner in combo with a cornerback and/or wide out in the draft
Wow. Its amazing how much some of you are under-valueing Walker! This guy is able to line up in MULTIPLE position and formations. He is the most versatile player on the roster and he's a nightmare to cover. he's way bigger than safties and too fast for LB's. He can line up at WR, TE and HB. He's a great blocker too. We need to quit looking for the next best / hot thing and do what the 9ers do, line up and puch a mutha f*cka in the mouth!
Draft Fleener. Do not trade Walker, he is good.

/thread
Originally posted by Furlow:
Draft Fleener. Do not trade Walker, he is good.

/thread

How much of the cap are you willing to but into the TE position.?.Ithink Walkers contract is up next yr..Won't be cheap..and you still want 5 recievers,Something has to give somewhere in all this.
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by TheGoldStandard:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by Youngb:
Originally posted by wysiwyg:
You don't trade Delanie.

If we draft Fleener at #30, it is because we got a good WR (Meachem, Garcon, etc) as FA and somebody jaw dropping isn't there.

VD came on at the end of the year and was THE monster in the playoffs. By his own admission, he didn't really get the offense until the end.

Walker was so clutch all year, as a "wham" blocker, special teams demon, and TE. That catch against DET was epic.

Fleener knows the offense. To draft him would take what the Pats did (Aaron / Gronk) and take it up a notch. Each brings something different. Fleener would be the big (6'6") redzone target. Vernon with his jump seam route.

Dare I say it but we'd be the first team to have a Slot TE (D-Love) instead of a Slot Wr. Since Delanie was a WR, it is not too much of a stretch.

I say do it.

That is what I've been thinking ever since Harbaugh joined. I know he was big into TEs and ours are extremely talented. Go 3 TE, all capable receivers, with Gore in the backfield. What are we gonna do? The D either goes big and gets burnt by the TEs or stay base and get steamrolled. The possibilities are endless. I'm excited for next year.

Its not that easy. Defense would double Vernon, cover Fleener with a Safety which leaves Delanie matched up with a CB and the defense can stay in base.

Delanie has never had even an aberage year and i dont think he can beat NFL DBs or he would have been drafted as a WR. All he really can do is that short slant acros the field and an occasional FB wheel type of route. I was really high on Delanie in he past but dude is not tall enough to catch jump balls over backers and DB and hes not fast enough to birn DBs. His routes and success highly depend on Vernon or another player clearing out, which isnt very difficult to replace at all.

Then you run the ball.

But in your scenario the wideout on the field is being single covered, Vernon is being doubled with a LB and a Safety over top, Fleener is covered by a Strong Safety a matchup we want, Delainie is bigger than any corner, and if you put Hunter on the field he is being covered by whom?

There are mis-matches everywhere and that's without accounting for the fact that we could just run the ball.

Yes but let us not forget the most important ingredient...a QB with the balls to throw an accurate jump ball.

Alex threw jumpballs to Braylon but Bray could not convert. Who else should he have been throwing jump balls to? We had short receivers.
  • sfout
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 6,251
Originally posted by sdaddy101269:
Wow. Its amazing how much some of you are under-valueing Walker! This guy is able to line up in MULTIPLE position and formations. He is the most versatile player on the roster and he's a nightmare to cover. he's way bigger than safties and too fast for LB's. He can line up at WR, TE and HB. He's a great blocker too. We need to quit looking for the next best / hot thing and do what the 9ers do, line up and puch a mutha f*cka in the mouth!

This isn't directed at you sdaddy(kinda felt weird typing that name lol). These bolded statements are the definition of an H-BACK!!!!! It is what Walker is, he is 6'0" 250ibs the ideal build of an H-Back! Read up on your positions people, it is what Walker is meant to do in this scheme, we need another 100% TE like Fleener or Orson Charles.


Originally posted by Jakemall:
Originally posted by FILTHpigskin:
Originally posted by sfout:
No if we draft Fleener, Walker will actually become his true position of H-back and simply replace Moran Norris as the back-up FB but still remain heavily involved in the offense as the 3rd or 4th TE along with VD, Fleener and the winner of the Reuland/Byham fight.

I agree with this statement

I guess I could see how he'd back up Bruce at FB...but Walker is a WR with a TE's body(1). He really is great at blocking and causes mismatches in coverage when he goes out on routes.. He's able to take advantage of those times when VD is doubled. I think this becomes even more important when we add another WR to compliment Crabtree.(2)

Crabtree
Morgan / Rookie Stud WR
VD
Walker
Gore
B. Miller


That's a lot of different weapons that could be on the field at any given time.

I didn't put Ginn or Williams on there because I am hoping they get pushed to the bottom of the Depth Chart.

1. He wouldn't actually be his backup but that is what the depth chart would say. Walker would be the #3 or #4 TE behind VD, Fleener, Byham/Reuland. Walker is an H-Back(someone who is a tweener for FB/WR/TE) and be a utility man for the offense(its what he already does, he's lined up as RB/FB/TE/WR and even as a Tackle.) What I was saying is that Walker would literally take over Moran Norris' vacated roster space as we bring in another purebred TE like Fleener to have on the field as the same as Gore, Miller/Walker, Crabtree/rookie(Hill or Wright)/(FA like Colston), and VD.

2. We can still add a WR to compliment Crabtree, contrary to everyone on this board, every talking head/"draft expert" still calls Stephen Hill a late 2nd round prospect. Sure some mocks have bumped him into the 1st based off his combine but until I see Kiper, McShay, Mayock stop calling him a 2nd/3rd rounder and start putting him as legitimate option for us at #30 I will continue to believe that he will be there at #60, therefor allowing us to draft Fleener in the 1st and Stephen Hill or Alshon Jeffery in the 2nd.
EDIT: Just dug around ESPN and Kiper said Hill has the potential to move into the late 1st round discussion and be a viable option for us. Until I see more opinions like this I will stick by what I said above. Once the combine hype wears off I will be excited to see if he is still in this good of a standing with the "experts", I'd rather have Hill in the 1st if it came down to it but a Fleener/Hill combo would be deadly in our offense.
[ Edited by sfout on Mar 1, 2012 at 2:48 PM ]