What keeps the offense from begin elite | Page 18

merm49 · 2012-02-27T22:46:01-08:00

When healthy last year, we had one of the deepest, most talented offenses in the league. Morgan, Edwards, Crabtree, Ginn, Davis, Walker, Gore, Hunter, Miller. That's a deep group of very solid offensive skill players. Obviously, we had major issues with health and the WR corps was reduced to Crabtree and scrubs by the playoffs. Nonetheless, I and a lot of others felt we had the talent to be an elite offense, as we should be next year adding a couple WRs in FA and the draft. Instead, we were average at best. There were some great moments (Philly, Detroit, Saints), but for the most part we plodded along, couldn't score in the RZ, and couldn't convert 3rd downs. Is that due to Alex or play calling? I'm more inclined to fault play calling, and here's why. (Disclaimer: the unique offseason necessitated a conservative offensive approach the first few games; I'm talking about once we got to mid season) Alex Smith demonstrated that he can be a competent, game managing QB who makes the crucial play when he has to have. Look at Philly, DET, NO for proof, along with big-time throws against PIT, at SEA, etc. He did enough to get us to the SB if not for KW's first bout of ineptitude and idiocy. He has his faults, but he made a gigantic leap under Harbaugh in year one and only figures to get better with a full offseason and first-ever year in the same system (I still find it unbelievable that we can't evaluate Alex in year 2 of an O and he's entering his 8th year). If Harbuagh can get Smith to play the entire game with the same urgency as he displayed in his comebacks, he's going to be very dangerous. Given Smith's demonstrated crunch-time ability, I believe more of the fault lies with play calling. Now, Harbuagh's "every possession must end with a kick (KO, FG, or Punt)" philosophy is a great strategy and won us a lot of games. It also cost us the Dallas game, and forced us settle for tons of FGs that should have been TDs. How many times did we reach the RZ only to run 3 consecutive times up the gut from the start of the season up to the AZ loss. For example, I attended the game vs. the Skins where we reached the RZ 3 times but ran on each play. Later in the season, we seemed to become too pass-heavy, eschewing the run when it was working well for us. This was never more glaring than the NFCC, where Gore and Hunter were gashing the Giants, yet Roman/Harbaugh opted to put the game on Alex's shoulders, forcing him to throw in the face of a strong pass rush to a double-covered VD, an off-his-game Crabtree, and scrubs. Over the course of the entire season, we rarely ran screen plays, despite facing a lot of pressure and having Hunter, Davis, and Walker as proven threats on these routes. We called questionable trick plays in crucial games, such as the failed half-back pass vs NO and the KW fumbled reverse vs NYG. We just never seemed to get in to a good rhythm as an O, pounding the rock early in the season and then forgetting about it late; too often we got away from going with what was working in games. I know I'll probably take some heat for criticizing play calling, as every fan imagines him/herself as a better OC than the guys actually doing the job. I still have the utmost faith in Harbuagh and his staff, and the glimpses of greatness (for example, the 2 late TDs vs NO) give me hope that they will adjust the game plan and make better use of our considerable offensive talent going forward.

Mar 1, 2012 at 7:08 PM

#256

49ersalldaway126
Veteran
Posts: 14,549

i dont get why this thread still exists its extremelly unrealistic to think this offense can be elite after 1 season in a new offense in a short offseason at that

we should have this conversation again next offseason at the very least

[ Edited by 49ersalldaway126 on Mar 1, 2012 at 7:30 PM ]

Mar 1, 2012 at 7:26 PM

#257

LoneWolf
Veteran
Posts: 7,064

Originally posted by 49ersalldaway126:
i dont get why this thread still exists its extremelly unrealistic to think this offense can be elite after 1 season in a new offense in a new offense at that

we should have this conversation again next offseason at the very least

Its a bashing thread is disguise

Mar 1, 2012 at 7:32 PM

#258

father49er
Veteran
Posts: 7,463

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by GolittaCamper:

Originally posted by father49er:
1. Receivers not getting open. See #3.
2. Receivers dropping balls.
3. QB won't throw into tight windows because he doesn't trust receivers. See #2.
4. A halfback that can't get around the corner or run away from the pack. Gore slowed at least a step last season.

You make to much sense, and aren't turning this into an Alex Smith dram thread....

Sure. Crabtree only caught 72 balls for 840 or so because he can't be trusted. A QB who will not throw to receivers in "tight windows" will be a replaced QB in the long run. To most NFL folks who review game film, those tight windows = NFL open. Even Harbaugh made those comments after a few games about Alex...that he held the ball when he should have thrown it.

But that was a negative comment on Alex so it can't be true or is through blind eyes. Alex has made some strides and played well and Harbaugh has also mentioned this, but let us not appear as if he was not the reason why the passing game was ranked so low.

For some reason, you seem to see everything through the It's-Alex's-Fault lens. I'm trying to point out there's a problem between the QB and receivers - both are partly to blame. If Crabtree spends more time in the offseason with the rest of the team, that chemistry is sure to improve. Crabtree is capable of being a 1200+ yard receiver and we'll likely see that from him in 2012 if he stays healthy. Match that with an 800+ yard receiver on the opposite side, we'd be an elite offense. It's not fair to say Smith do not throw into tight windows. Those game winning passes to D.Walker vs Detroit and to V.Davis vs New Orleans were big time throws into tight windows.

Mar 1, 2012 at 7:48 PM

#259

SFrush
Veteran
Posts: 5,444

Originally posted by PRIMUS151:
Converting 3rd downs...

This. Just one season it would be nice not to be in the bottom ten in third down conversions.

Mar 1, 2012 at 7:49 PM

#260

49ersalldaway126
Veteran
Posts: 14,549

Originally posted by SFrush:

Originally posted by PRIMUS151:
Converting 3rd downs...

This. Just one season it would be nice not to be in the bottom ten in third down conversions.

i think this is our biggeest concern

but i think this will be solved by getting a legit speed threat

thats why i really want jendall wright

as of now safties play close because we dont have a legit deep threat which imo is why our 3rd down conversions are so bad

[ Edited by 49ersalldaway126 on Mar 1, 2012 at 7:50 PM ]

Mar 1, 2012 at 7:51 PM

#261

LoneWolf
Veteran
Posts: 7,064

Originally posted by father49er:
For some reason, you seem to see everything through the It's-Alex's-Fault lens. I'm trying to point out there's a problem between the QB and receivers - both are partly to blame. If Crabtree spends more time in the offseason with the rest of the team, that chemistry is sure to improve. Crabtree is capable of being a 1200+ yard receiver and we'll likely see that from him in 2012 if he stays healthy. Match that with an 800+ yard receiver on the opposite side, we'd be an elite offense. It's not fair to say Smith do not throw into tight windows. Those game winning passes to D.Walker vs Detroit and to V.Davis vs New Orleans were big time throws into tight windows.

Don't give him situational stats, like the passes to Walker and Davis, he as will most people who have a problem with Alex will have negative situation for every positive you can give them.

Mar 1, 2012 at 8:06 PM

#262

Joecool
Veteran
Posts: 70,984

Originally posted by father49er:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by GolittaCamper:
Originally posted by father49er:
1. Receivers not getting open. See #3.
2. Receivers dropping balls.
3. QB won't throw into tight windows because he doesn't trust receivers. See #2.
4. A halfback that can't get around the corner or run away from the pack. Gore slowed at least a step last season.

You make to much sense, and aren't turning this into an Alex Smith dram thread....

Sure. Crabtree only caught 72 balls for 840 or so because he can't be trusted. A QB who will not throw to receivers in "tight windows" will be a replaced QB in the long run. To most NFL folks who review game film, those tight windows = NFL open. Even Harbaugh made those comments after a few games about Alex...that he held the ball when he should have thrown it.

But that was a negative comment on Alex so it can't be true or is through blind eyes. Alex has made some strides and played well and Harbaugh has also mentioned this, but let us not appear as if he was not the reason why the passing game was ranked so low.

For some reason, you seem to see everything through the It's-Alex's-Fault lens. I'm trying to point out there's a problem between the QB and receivers - both are partly to blame. If Crabtree spends more time in the offseason with the rest of the team, that chemistry is sure to improve. Crabtree is capable of being a 1200+ yard receiver and we'll likely see that from him in 2012 if he stays healthy. Match that with an 800+ yard receiver on the opposite side, we'd be an elite offense. It's not fair to say Smith do not throw into tight windows. Those game winning passes to D.Walker vs Detroit and to V.Davis vs New Orleans were big time throws into tight windows.

Reread your post. Not once did you put anything on Alex. In fact you stated Alex didn't throw because he doesn't trust his receivers which implies the receivers haven't earned his trust.

On the other hand, read my last paragraph that implies more than one person at fault.

Mar 1, 2012 at 8:19 PM

#263

stunder49
Veteran
Posts: 1,215

The offense is elite it is one of the most elite of the elite. You don't win 14 games without an elite offense. Next season the 49ers elite offense will get better by really boring the defense's with run,pass,run,pass. what i am saying is the deep threat in the west coast offense is non existent because it is not needed the big thing about the WCO for a wide receiver is a acronym called YAC. boom boom boom.

Mar 1, 2012 at 8:24 PM

#264

80sbaby24
Member
Posts: 2,990

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by 49ersalldaway126:
passes thrown 30 yards 50

alex smith: 4-8
drew brees 8-15
eli manning 6-21
aaron rodgers 7-12
tom brady: 0-9

Thanks 49ersall--These demonstrate to me that Smith is right in there with the big boys on long passes. I recall that his comparison with elite QBs fades with mid and short passes. Could be play design or lack of time in the system or that he needs to work on short passes more.

You are thanking him for false information.....something 49ersalldaway posts on a regular basis.

Dont believe me? Read this:

Source? Oh...that would be ESPN.

49ersalldaway......from here on out, if you are going to post statistics or records, please post your source. Because I have noticed that 9 times out of 10, the statistics/records you post are complete nonsense....just like the stat the one you just posted.

[ Edited by 80sbaby24 on Mar 1, 2012 at 8:25 PM ]

Mar 1, 2012 at 8:26 PM

#265

49ersalldaway126
Veteran
Posts: 14,549

Originally posted by 80sbaby24:
You are thanking him for false information.....something 49ersalldaway does on a regular basis.

Dont believe me? Read this:

Source? Oh...that would be ESPN.

49ersalldaway......from here on out, if you are going to post statistics or records, please post your source. Because I have noticed that 9 times out of 10, the statistics/records you post are complete nonsense....just like the stat the one you just posted.

ok 4-8 from 30-40 yards not 30-50 yards my bad i got that info a long time ago...

but i know ffrom the same distance all thsoe numbers stand for the other qbs

Mar 1, 2012 at 8:55 PM

#266

dtg_9er
Veteran
Posts: 33,204

Originally posted by 80sbaby24:
You are thanking him for false information.....something 49ersalldaway posts on a regular basis.

Dont believe me? Read this:

Source? Oh...that would be ESPN.

49ersalldaway......from here on out, if you are going to post statistics or records, please post your source. Because I have noticed that 9 times out of 10, the statistics/records you post are complete nonsense....just like the stat the one you just posted.

Your table is not clear as well...whose stats are they? Do they include playoffs? Year? The point made is that Smith compares more favorably the longer the pass. He needs to work on the short passing game.

Mar 1, 2012 at 9:41 PM

#267

Joecool
Veteran
Posts: 70,984

Originally posted by stunder49:
The offense is elite it is one of the most elite of the elite. You don't win 14 games without an elite offense. Next season the 49ers elite offense will get better by really boring the defense's with run,pass,run,pass. what i am saying is the deep threat in the west coast offense is non existent because it is not needed the big thing about the WCO for a wide receiver is a acronym called YAC. boom boom boom.

As some use Alex's playoff performance for his possible consistent play in 2012, I can use Vernon's performance in the playoffs for our possible deep threat in 2012. We need the 0-15 yard TE. Vernon is our deep threat.

Mar 1, 2012 at 9:45 PM

#268

LoneWolf
Veteran
Posts: 7,064

Originally posted by Joecool:
As some use Alex's playoff performance for his possible consistent play in 2012, I can use Vernon's performance in the playoffs for our possible deep threat in 2012. We need the 0-15 yard TE. Vernon is our deep threat.

Well that is only obvious, but still doesnt satisfy the need for a deep threat WR to be opposite of Crabs, you know like in the situation Davis has to stay back and block like most tight ends do from time to time.

[ Edited by LoneWolf on Mar 1, 2012 at 9:45 PM ]

Mar 1, 2012 at 11:25 PM

#269

Joecool
Veteran
Posts: 70,984

Another thing to add about Mike Wallace, his counterpart, Antonio Brown, on the same team averaged the same amount of yards per catch. Wallace won't come close to the numbers he got in PIT. Why? Because Big Ben is a broken play QB that allows these guys to run out of route and free themselves from the defense. They won't get that opportunity in SF.

Mar 1, 2012 at 11:34 PM

#270

Young2Rice
Veteran
Posts: 71,840

Originally posted by 80sbaby24:

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by 49ersalldaway126:
passes thrown 30 yards 50

alex smith: 4-8
drew brees 8-15
eli manning 6-21
aaron rodgers 7-12
tom brady: 0-9

Thanks 49ersall--These demonstrate to me that Smith is right in there with the big boys on long passes. I recall that his comparison with elite QBs fades with mid and short passes. Could be play design or lack of time in the system or that he needs to work on short passes more.

You are thanking him for false information.....something 49ersalldaway posts on a regular basis.

Dont believe me? Read this:

Source? Oh...that would be ESPN.

49ersalldaway......from here on out, if you are going to post statistics or records, please post your source. Because I have noticed that 9 times out of 10, the statistics/records you post are complete nonsense....just like the stat the one you just posted.

Yeah i called em on some as well..

Everyone messes up somtimes but jeez. He more then doubled Alex's numbers over 30 yards.

And the table is from this year. You can tell because he was replying to a post about this years numbers and the TD count there is 17.

5 plays over 30 yards isn't good.

And look at his completion percentage. It is clearly inflated due to his 1-10 yard % and passes behind the line %. haha 70%

Then look at past 10 yards....like 40%

[ Edited by Young2Rice on Mar 1, 2012 at 11:37 PM ]