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Kaepernick believes he can seriously challenge for starting job this year

Joe but its only once in a long long long time (emphasis on the long) that you get a QB who get a system down to a t in a short period. What I'm not sure your understanding is the WC0 can take more time then your average offensive scheme to have totally down. It outweighs any other offensive playbook. And It takes along time to get down, which is the main reason, alex having more experience with it will be in next season as starter, risking CK in there as the starter when he may match the practice time with alex in the playbook, but on the field in the real game situations alex has the upper hand by a long shot. What I don't understand is why so many people have forgotten "the future QB's" from the past would be benched for a few seasons before going in because player development is key for success. Like I've said before if steve didn't have the time to develop behind joe, chances are we wouldn't be 5 time super bowl champions.
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by aTx49er:
Steve Young said the same thing Montana did about being patient with the WCO. And so did Mariucci.

I know, which means it is not any new found knowledge. It is common knowledge to know that most QBs/offenses take about 3 years to mature. But it is also true that not all QB's require this. So it isn't true for every situation.

These people were talking about the WCO specifically for a reason. All three are former QBs. I think they know what they're talking about. Bill Walsh himself said that the WCO is a QB friendly system but takes longer for the QB to master than other offenses. If you look at all the good QBs that ran the WCO all had time to completely learn the offense before starting.
Originally posted by aTx49er:
Originally posted by oldman9er:
Originally posted by aTx49er:
Steve Young said the same thing Montana did about being patient with the WCO. And so did Mariucci.

Yeah, but what do they know? Bunch o old has-beens that don't know nothin' and stuff.

You can't take certain posters seriously because they will say anything to win an argument. Good entertainment though.

Yes it is.

All hail, JT O'Sullivan !!! He is awesomez !!! Oh wait,,, All hail, Nate Davis !!! He is teh awesomez !!!
Originally posted by aTx49er:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by aTx49er:
Steve Young said the same thing Montana did about being patient with the WCO. And so did Mariucci.

I know, which means it is not any new found knowledge. It is common knowledge to know that most QBs/offenses take about 3 years to mature. But it is also true that not all QB's require this. So it isn't true for every situation.

These people were talking about the WCO specifically for a reason. All three are former QBs. I think they know what they're talking about. Bill Walsh himself said that the WCO is a QB friendly system but takes longer for the QB to master than other offenses. If you look at all the good QBs that ran the WCO all had time to completely learn the offense before starting.

It doesn't matter what they were talking about. Troy Aikmen said the same thing when Norv signed on. It's the same for every offense but when a QB excels early, then it's because that QB wasn't in the WCO. But when another QB in the WCO excels early, it's because of something else.

So, because Troy Aikmen said it, it must be true for any offense, right?

The biggest factor is who the QB is and how he can individually adapt. Steve Young actually took longer than 3 years for it to click and realize he needs to throw receivers open and he said this himself. Learning the ENTIRE offense is about 3 years...but applying what you have learned, even if it is an install varies depending on the QB.

Former players make huge generalizations all the time. What Montana and Young said about the WCO was no different than what Troy Aikmen said about Norv's offense (3 years).
Originally posted by LoneWolf:
Joe but its only once in a long long long time (emphasis on the long) that you get a QB who get a system down to a t in a short period. What I'm not sure your understanding is the WC0 can take more time then your average offensive scheme to have totally down. It outweighs any other offensive playbook. And It takes along time to get down, which is the main reason, alex having more experience with it will be in next season as starter, risking CK in there as the starter when he may match the practice time with alex in the playbook, but on the field in the real game situations alex has the upper hand by a long shot. What I don't understand is why so many people have forgotten "the future QB's" from the past would be benched for a few seasons before going in because player development is key for success. Like I've said before if steve didn't have the time to develop behind joe, chances are we wouldn't be 5 time super bowl champions.

I think it is fair to say for a rookie QB but a veteran who's played in the league at least 3 years should be expected to pick the system up quicker. It's not a new language like it used to be. Even when Young started, not many if any teams at all were really running the WCO. Alex has had experience with it his first year so it's not entirely new to him. He still needs more time in it but my main point is that what Montana said isn't any new knowledge...for any offense. Troy said the same thing about Norv's offense.
Originally posted by Joecool:
I think it is fair to say for a rookie QB but a veteran who's played in the league at least 3 years should be expected to pick the system up quicker. It's not a new language like it used to be. Even when Young started, not many if any teams at all were really running the WCO. Alex has had experience with it his first year so it's not entirely new to him. He still needs more time in it but my main point is that what Montana said isn't any new knowledge...for any offense. Troy said the same thing about Norv's offense.

did you not see the article?

came in before saints game it said alex has picked up the offense much faster than harbaugh and roman expected him too he is a smart guy but all coaches who runt he WCO and all the qbs who ran it says it takes 2-3 years to master the offense

alex didnt even have a whole offseason and was extremely effective
Try to learn a new language once a year for 6 years and tell me the 7th should be easy to pick up cuz you've been learning a new one every year.
Originally posted by 49ersalldaway126:
Originally posted by Joecool:
I think it is fair to say for a rookie QB but a veteran who's played in the league at least 3 years should be expected to pick the system up quicker. It's not a new language like it used to be. Even when Young started, not many if any teams at all were really running the WCO. Alex has had experience with it his first year so it's not entirely new to him. He still needs more time in it but my main point is that what Montana said isn't any new knowledge...for any offense. Troy said the same thing about Norv's offense.

did you not see the article?

came in before saints game it said alex has picked up the offense much faster than harbaugh and roman expected him too he is a smart guy but all coaches who runt he WCO and all the qbs who ran it says it takes 2-3 years to master the offense

alex didnt even have a whole offseason and was extremely effective

The problem with Alex has never been about learning. It's been about applying. There QB's who can apply things right away, there QB's who never apply correctly. Alex is somewhere in between or maybe will never apply it correctly.
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by aTx49er:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by aTx49er:
Steve Young said the same thing Montana did about being patient with the WCO. And so did Mariucci.

I know, which means it is not any new found knowledge. It is common knowledge to know that most QBs/offenses take about 3 years to mature. But it is also true that not all QB's require this. So it isn't true for every situation.

These people were talking about the WCO specifically for a reason. All three are former QBs. I think they know what they're talking about. Bill Walsh himself said that the WCO is a QB friendly system but takes longer for the QB to master than other offenses. If you look at all the good QBs that ran the WCO all had time to completely learn the offense before starting.

It doesn't matter what they were talking about. Troy Aikmen said the same thing when Norv signed on. It's the same for every offense but when a QB excels early, then it's because that QB wasn't in the WCO. But when another QB in the WCO excels early, it's because of something else.

So, because Troy Aikmen said it, it must be true for any offense, right?

The biggest factor is who the QB is and how he can individually adapt. Steve Young actually took longer than 3 years for it to click and realize he needs to throw receivers open and he said this himself. Learning the ENTIRE offense is about 3 years...but applying what you have learned, even if it is an install varies depending on the QB.

Former players make huge generalizations all the time. What Montana and Young said about the WCO was no different than what Troy Aikmen said about Norv's offense (3 years).

BS dude. The reason that Norv was brought in was because the Coryell system is easier to learn for QBs. Nolan thought Smith wasn't picking up the WCO quick enough and knew the Norv had success with Aikman. Aikman never said anything about Norv's offense. He said Norv will be good for Smith because he helped Aikman out alot in the beginning of his career. So the HOF HC/QB duo who put the WCO on the map just make huge generalizations when talking about the WCO?

Could you name a few QBs that excelled early in the WCO?
Originally posted by Joecool:
The problem with Alex has never been about learning. It's been about applying. There QB's who can apply things right away, there QB's who never apply correctly. Alex is somewhere in between or maybe will never apply it correctly.


http://blogs.mercurynews.com/49ers/2011/11/09/mid-week-report-from-harbaugh-alex-smith/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+49ersHotRead+%2849ers+Hot+Read%29

"People that know football and understand the game appreciate Alex Smith as a very talented quarterback," Harbaugh said.
It actually should be easier for ck to pick up cuz its the only offense inserted into his head since college, the part the puts alex in the drivers seat is his in game experience and that is what makes a lot of fans more comfortable as the starter. The pre season will give ck a chance to showcase what he's learned in the offseason, but it also give alex the same opprotunity. Comparing the WCO to other offensive schemes though truly is apples to oranges.
Originally posted by aTx49er:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by aTx49er:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by aTx49er:
Steve Young said the same thing Montana did about being patient with the WCO. And so did Mariucci.

I know, which means it is not any new found knowledge. It is common knowledge to know that most QBs/offenses take about 3 years to mature. But it is also true that not all QB's require this. So it isn't true for every situation.

These people were talking about the WCO specifically for a reason. All three are former QBs. I think they know what they're talking about. Bill Walsh himself said that the WCO is a QB friendly system but takes longer for the QB to master than other offenses. If you look at all the good QBs that ran the WCO all had time to completely learn the offense before starting.

It doesn't matter what they were talking about. Troy Aikmen said the same thing when Norv signed on. It's the same for every offense but when a QB excels early, then it's because that QB wasn't in the WCO. But when another QB in the WCO excels early, it's because of something else.

So, because Troy Aikmen said it, it must be true for any offense, right?

The biggest factor is who the QB is and how he can individually adapt. Steve Young actually took longer than 3 years for it to click and realize he needs to throw receivers open and he said this himself. Learning the ENTIRE offense is about 3 years...but applying what you have learned, even if it is an install varies depending on the QB.

Former players make huge generalizations all the time. What Montana and Young said about the WCO was no different than what Troy Aikmen said about Norv's offense (3 years).

BS dude. The reason that Norv was brought in was because the Coryell system is easier to learn for QBs. Nolan thought Smith wasn't picking up the WCO quick enough and knew the Norv had success with Aikman. Aikman never said anything about Norv's offense. He said Norv will be good for Smith because he helped Aikman out alot in the beginning of his career. So the HOF HC/QB duo who put the WCO on the map just make huge generalizations when talking about the WCO?

Could you name a few QBs that excelled early in the WCO?

I raise you a BS because Aikman said it took him a few years to learn and start playing well. He said it at that time no different than Joe or Steve. Offenses these days aren't like they were in the 80's where it was simplistic. Nowdays, every offense has a fat playbook and complicated schemes...not just the WCO. We need to stop living in the past thinking only the WCO is the difficult one or the most difficult.

Same can be said about Martz' offense...
Speaking of Troy Aikman


http://blog.sfgate.com/49ers/2012/01/20/troy-aikman-qa-on-alex-eli-and-winning-as-a-qb/

Aikman can foresee Smith putting up relatively ordinary numbers as long as Jim Harbaugh is his coach. And that's OK, Aikman said. His Hall-of-Fame career, which didn't include a 4,000-yard season, isn't defined by statistics. Unfortunately, we validate play by statistics and it's not particularly fair. If the 49ers aren't able to run the ball next year, then Alex will be throwing for 4,900 yards, too. My point in that in is that I think the 49ers under Harbaugh, if you look at how he played in San Diego and then at Stanford and now with the 49ers, he obviously has an appreciation for the running game. He's a Michigan guy. His father was a coach. I think there's a lot of old-school values with Jim as far as how you win in this league. And a big part of that is running the ball and playing good defense. Not that Jim dismisses the importance of quarterback play, but when you have those beliefs, you're just not going to throw for 4,000 yards. You're going to have more of a balanced offense.

Can you see how Alex's career trajectory could have been far different under different circumstances?

AIKMAN: Absolutely it could have been. Absolutely. I know what Norv does for a quarterback and I know what he meant to my career. It's no coincidence that he came in my third season and my third is when we turned it around, went 11-5, I was in the Pro Bowl and the next year we win the Super Bowl. And then we win the Super Bowl his third year with us. My second year we were the worst offense in football. There were only 28 teams and we were 28tth in offense.
And you think since other offensive schemes have evolved and got more complicated with bigger playbooks the WCO hasn't evolved and gotten bigger and more complicated?
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by aTx49er:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by aTx49er:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by aTx49er:
Steve Young said the same thing Montana did about being patient with the WCO. And so did Mariucci.

I know, which means it is not any new found knowledge. It is common knowledge to know that most QBs/offenses take about 3 years to mature. But it is also true that not all QB's require this. So it isn't true for every situation.

These people were talking about the WCO specifically for a reason. All three are former QBs. I think they know what they're talking about. Bill Walsh himself said that the WCO is a QB friendly system but takes longer for the QB to master than other offenses. If you look at all the good QBs that ran the WCO all had time to completely learn the offense before starting.

It doesn't matter what they were talking about. Troy Aikmen said the same thing when Norv signed on. It's the same for every offense but when a QB excels early, then it's because that QB wasn't in the WCO. But when another QB in the WCO excels early, it's because of something else.

So, because Troy Aikmen said it, it must be true for any offense, right?

The biggest factor is who the QB is and how he can individually adapt. Steve Young actually took longer than 3 years for it to click and realize he needs to throw receivers open and he said this himself. Learning the ENTIRE offense is about 3 years...but applying what you have learned, even if it is an install varies depending on the QB.

Former players make huge generalizations all the time. What Montana and Young said about the WCO was no different than what Troy Aikmen said about Norv's offense (3 years).

BS dude. The reason that Norv was brought in was because the Coryell system is easier to learn for QBs. Nolan thought Smith wasn't picking up the WCO quick enough and knew the Norv had success with Aikman. Aikman never said anything about Norv's offense. He said Norv will be good for Smith because he helped Aikman out alot in the beginning of his career. So the HOF HC/QB duo who put the WCO on the map just make huge generalizations when talking about the WCO?

Could you name a few QBs that excelled early in the WCO?

I raise you a BS because Aikman said it took him a few years to learn and start playing well. He said it at that time no different than Joe or Steve. Offenses these days aren't like they were in the 80's where it was simplistic. Nowdays, every offense has a fat playbook and complicated schemes...not just the WCO. We need to stop living in the past thinking only the WCO is the difficult one or the most difficult.

Same can be said about Martz' offense...

The only difference between offenses now and then is the emphasis on the pass. Offenses were not simple in the 80's. The pass friendly rules started changing in the 80's and teams adjusted. But schemes, formations, sets are basically the same.

Of course everyone has their own variations. Martz's offense is just a variation of the Coryell offense. Dan fout's was running the pass heavy Air Coryell back in the early 80's. Martz brought it back with the Rams and it was successful for a while.

And as far as Aikman and his thoughts on Norv and Alex read oldman9er's post so I don't have to cut and paste.