There are 91 users in the forums

Remember
Not a member? Register Now!

Can the 49ers win a super bowl with Alex Smith?

Can the 49ers win a super bowl with Alex Smith?

Originally posted by Joecool:
This. Alex is limited, but we were inconsistent in terms of personnel at WR. Doesn't mean we don't have talent at WR, but losing your pre season #1 and #2 targets along with losing Ginn here and there doesn't help.

I may be far-fetched, but I'm curious to find out how many times Antonio Bryant, and Smith connected on passes, until his ultimate release from the team.
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by dj43:
Here is my standard response to all those who ask "can Alex do this?"

There was a critical piece missing in the 49er offense all season long. It wasn't the play calling although I questioned it on occasion. It wasn't the running game although that stalled in mid-season. The missing piece was something that Harbaugh gave CLEAR NOTICE of the need and it should be abundantly clear to everyone. What was it?

The answer should have been clear to all when Harbaugh took a chance on signing Braylon Edwards to be the big, strong home-run threat that every good offense needs. Despite his well-known character issues, Harbaugh felt the need clearly enough to sign him anyway. To his credit, Edwards spent extra time working with Alex during TC, and, we saw a few glimpses of what could be at the very beginning of the season but then came the injuries and Edwards disappeared. NEVER did this offense have that critical component this season.

Too make matters worse, Joshua Morgan went down at a time when he was clearly the best receiver on the team.

The third blow to the offense was the fact that through the first 12 games, Michael Crabtree, after missing all of TC, was not healthy enough for full participation in practice during the week.

So to answer the OP question: Considering the fact the team was one blown fumble call from the Super Bowl this season despite missing WRs, it should be obvious to anyone that given the pieces Jim Harbaugh clearly indicated the team needed this past season but lost due to injury, that this team CAN win the Super Bowl with Alex Smith at QB.

This. Alex is limited, but we were inconsistent in terms of personnel at WR. Doesn't mean we don't have talent at WR, but losing your pre season #1 and #2 targets along with losing Ginn here and there doesn't help.

Since we are in basic agreement on the main need, I won't quibble over your "Alex is limited" insertion. My only point is that we don't know that until he is given at least the average set of receivers that playoff teams have. If we are able to get the kind of receiver that Edwards represented, and Morgan stays healthy and Crabtree has a full, injury-free camp, and Alex is still making very conservative decisions, THEN we can say he is limited, but not now.


We do know that he has limitations. Better QB's production, in the long run, does not drop down very far without top tier WR's or with changes at WR. They will still throw the ball to 4th string WR's and make completions happen.

It's a team game. When we know that Crabtree has run the wrong routes in the past and that Vernon Davis did not know what he was doing in the offense for the first 2/3s of the season, it is impossible to know if Smith is inaccurate or if he threw the ball where he was supposed to based on the route but the receiver was in the wrong place. QB play is interdependent on the play of the receivers. If all the receivers run the routes the same way, it doesn't really matter who is #1 and who is #4. However, when the two are not on the same page, it doesn't work.

I base all this on multiple stories from Steve Young and others who told of how fanatical Walsh was about receivers running the PRECISE route on time and how all that effected where the QB threw the ball. That is why I say that we don't know the extent of any purported limitations Alex may have until we get receivers that are doing their job correctly.
we can win with jim harbaugh and alex smith
Originally posted by HessianDud:
clearly. not sure what there is to debate here.

This. I'm not big on smith but we all! know why da niners lost da game.
Originally posted by dj43:
It's a team game. When we know that Crabtree has run the wrong routes in the past and that Vernon Davis did not know what he was doing in the offense for the first 2/3s of the season, it is impossible to know if Smith is inaccurate or if he threw the ball where he was supposed to based on the route but the receiver was in the wrong place. QB play is interdependent on the play of the receivers. If all the receivers run the routes the same way, it doesn't really matter who is #1 and who is #4. However, when the two are not on the same page, it doesn't work.

I base all this on multiple stories from Steve Young and others who told of how fanatical Walsh was about receivers running the PRECISE route on time and how all that effected where the QB threw the ball. That is why I say that we don't know the extent of any purported limitations Alex may have until we get receivers that are doing their job correctly.

Alex isn't the only QB who deals with this.
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by dj43:
It's a team game. When we know that Crabtree has run the wrong routes in the past and that Vernon Davis did not know what he was doing in the offense for the first 2/3s of the season, it is impossible to know if Smith is inaccurate or if he threw the ball where he was supposed to based on the route but the receiver was in the wrong place. QB play is interdependent on the play of the receivers. If all the receivers run the routes the same way, it doesn't really matter who is #1 and who is #4. However, when the two are not on the same page, it doesn't work.

I base all this on multiple stories from Steve Young and others who told of how fanatical Walsh was about receivers running the PRECISE route on time and how all that effected where the QB threw the ball. That is why I say that we don't know the extent of any purported limitations Alex may have until we get receivers that are doing their job correctly.

Alex isn't the only QB who deals with this.

yes, it is a problem a lot of poor offenses face.
Originally posted by HessianDud:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by dj43:
It's a team game. When we know that Crabtree has run the wrong routes in the past and that Vernon Davis did not know what he was doing in the offense for the first 2/3s of the season, it is impossible to know if Smith is inaccurate or if he threw the ball where he was supposed to based on the route but the receiver was in the wrong place. QB play is interdependent on the play of the receivers. If all the receivers run the routes the same way, it doesn't really matter who is #1 and who is #4. However, when the two are not on the same page, it doesn't work.

I base all this on multiple stories from Steve Young and others who told of how fanatical Walsh was about receivers running the PRECISE route on time and how all that effected where the QB threw the ball. That is why I say that we don't know the extent of any purported limitations Alex may have until we get receivers that are doing their job correctly.

Alex isn't the only QB who deals with this.

yes, it is a problem a lot of poor offenses face.

Most offenses face and better QB's still rise to the top.
double post
[ Edited by HessianDud on Jan 26, 2012 at 12:15 PM ]
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by HessianDud:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by dj43:
It's a team game. When we know that Crabtree has run the wrong routes in the past and that Vernon Davis did not know what he was doing in the offense for the first 2/3s of the season, it is impossible to know if Smith is inaccurate or if he threw the ball where he was supposed to based on the route but the receiver was in the wrong place. QB play is interdependent on the play of the receivers. If all the receivers run the routes the same way, it doesn't really matter who is #1 and who is #4. However, when the two are not on the same page, it doesn't work.

I base all this on multiple stories from Steve Young and others who told of how fanatical Walsh was about receivers running the PRECISE route on time and how all that effected where the QB threw the ball. That is why I say that we don't know the extent of any purported limitations Alex may have until we get receivers that are doing their job correctly.

Alex isn't the only QB who deals with this.

yes, it is a problem a lot of poor offenses face.

Most offenses face and better QB's still rise to the top.

it happens in every game, I'm sure. its impossible to play perfectly. but compare the communication/familiarity/ability of our receivers to the good offenses and see how our WR's, independent of the QB, stack up.
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by dj43:
It's a team game. When we know that Crabtree has run the wrong routes in the past and that Vernon Davis did not know what he was doing in the offense for the first 2/3s of the season, it is impossible to know if Smith is inaccurate or if he threw the ball where he was supposed to based on the route but the receiver was in the wrong place. QB play is interdependent on the play of the receivers. If all the receivers run the routes the same way, it doesn't really matter who is #1 and who is #4. However, when the two are not on the same page, it doesn't work.

I base all this on multiple stories from Steve Young and others who told of how fanatical Walsh was about receivers running the PRECISE route on time and how all that effected where the QB threw the ball. That is why I say that we don't know the extent of any purported limitations Alex may have until we get receivers that are doing their job correctly.

Alex isn't the only QB who deals with this.
When Tom Brady loses Wes Welker for a couple of weeks, he can rely on Hernandez and Gronk and Branch.

When Drew Brees loses Colston, he has Graham and Meachem and Henderson.

When Aaron Rodgers loses Jennings he still has Nelson and Jones and Finley and Driver.

In each case, they had multiple options to go to. They were not left with one or none.

OTOH, in Atlanta when Julio Jones was restricted due to injury between games 6 and 11, opposing teams, no longer concerned with an aging Tony Gonzales, doubled Roddy White, the only remaining quality receiver, and Matt Ryan's number dropped way off.

When AJ Green was unable to play in games 10 and 11, Andy Dalton was left with nothing and he struggled.

When Braylon Edwards and Joshua Morgan went down, and Michael Crabtree could not practice due to his foot, and Vernon Davis had not yet learned the offense, Alex Smith had a punt returner and a raw 2nd year guy that started the season on the bottom of the depth chart, and the passing offense was less than spectacular.

There are other examples I could bring but time prevents it.

The point is, and I think you know this, "next man up" is a nice saying but when you lose a starter, the "next man up" is NOT as good as the starter and performance suffers. The result is that the QB, and the team, struggles.
Originally posted by cNiner:
Originally posted by 49ersalldaway126:
Originally posted by BrianGO:
Originally posted by susweel:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by 9erfanAUS:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Maybe. He does some things well. Like read the field well and not turn it over. But he is pretty bad at taking chances. He is very scared, tenative and gun shy. I'd like to see him be a little more of a gunslinger. We would get more 3rd down conversions, yards, td's and time of possession. We give up too many drives because he is scared to make a throw. Some of it is the WR corps. But some of it is him too.

More interceptions too...can't forget.

I think I would live with more interceptions. I think Alex needs to go from 5 a year to about 10. I really mean that. He would take more chances and get more positive plays in other ways.

Omg I actually agree with SD.

Someone has a gun to his head, forcing him to say those things. That is NOT San Diego.

just fyi this is what razzano said before the giants game

and keep in mind this is a guy who said start nate davis over alex smith

. The Niners don't have great separators, and that's why Alex Smith was 31st in the league on third-down conversions. They just don't have a lot of fast, speedy separators. They've got these guys who are more plodders — Crabtree, even (tight end) Delanie Walker."Then there's Ginn. Ginn's a terrible route runner. He's never been a good receiver. Williams is OK, but he's small. He's more of a slot guy. But in terms of outside guys, they have nobody like Hakeem Nicks. And again, that's why they're 31st in the league on third-down conversions."
again im not making excuses for alex he is of course at fault for some of the 3rd down woes but we have to give him some weapons cause as of now we have 1 and thats VD

i dont think its a concidence that VD our only playmaker has 4 TDs in past 2 playoff games get another play maker guy alex will do much better as well as crabtree and davis


Gaint did not have a lot of seperation the Saints did not but Eli and Brees stuck it in there , you have to take chances somtimes !


and the 1st time smith does it and a ball is tipped and picked you guys will be b***hing about that
Originally posted by hofer36:
and the 1st time smith does it and a ball is tipped and picked you guys will be b***hing about that

When you have a Defense as good as ours, an offense can take some more risks.
Originally posted by dj43:
When Tom Brady loses Wes Welker for a couple of weeks, he can rely on Hernandez and Gronk and Branch.

When Drew Brees loses Colston, he has Graham and Meachem and Henderson.

When Aaron Rodgers loses Jennings he still has Nelson and Jones and Finley and Driver.

In each case, they had multiple options to go to. They were not left with one or none.

OTOH, in Atlanta when Julio Jones was restricted due to injury between games 6 and 11, opposing teams, no longer concerned with an aging Tony Gonzales, doubled Roddy White, the only remaining quality receiver, and Matt Ryan's number dropped way off.

When AJ Green was unable to play in games 10 and 11, Andy Dalton was left with nothing and he struggled.

When Braylon Edwards and Joshua Morgan went down, and Michael Crabtree could not practice due to his foot, and Vernon Davis had not yet learned the offense, Alex Smith had a punt returner and a raw 2nd year guy that started the season on the bottom of the depth chart, and the passing offense was less than spectacular.

There are other examples I could bring but time prevents it.

The point is, and I think you know this, "next man up" is a nice saying but when you lose a starter, the "next man up" is NOT as good as the starter and performance suffers. The result is that the QB, and the team, struggles.

And it doesnt strike you as weird that all the top QBs in the league just happen to have a great group of WRs? How many really good/great WRs are there in the NFL that produce regardless of QB? I think that list is limited to Larry Fitzgerald.

Lets look at the Giants. 2 seasons ago, Steve Smith had 1200 yards and 7 touchdowns. He goes down the next year and Mario Manningham jumps in and has almost 1000 yards and 9 touchdowns. He gets hurt this year, and an undrafted FA named Victor Cruz has 1500 yards. Look at what Peyton and Brady have done there entire careers with a revolving door at WR. Are Pierre Garcon, Austin Collie, Brandon Stokely, Deion Branch, or Troy Brown really that good of receivers? Well they look like Pro Bowlers when playing with those two QBs. Did the Cowboys passing offense suffer at all when Miles Austin was hurt most of the season? No, some dude named Laurent Robinson scored 11 touchdowns in 12 games. The Saints WRs are ALWAYS hurt. Does that matter to Drew Brees? See what I am getting at?

The overwhelming majority of wide receivers who have elevated into top WRs, play with a top 10 QB. Theres just no other way around that.
Yes, several. Even if the defense regresses.
Originally posted by okdkid:
Yes, several. Even if the defense regresses.



Funniest post of the day.