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Brees, 1.5 seconds, and alex

I agree with the majority here. Looked to me like Brees had a lot of time quite often. Sidestepped well, too.
Originally posted by NineFourNiner:
I agree with the majority here. Looked to me like Brees had a lot of time quite often. Sidestepped well, too.

I knew we should had never let DeLa Puente go
The majority is correct here. Respect to the OP, but Brees on many passes had time to make a sandwich and read the newspaper between snap and throw.
You're also assuming that Stafford was using a quick throw to beat pressure. This wasn't the case as he wasn't sacked at all last night. NO pass rush isn't that good - they only produced 33 sacks in the regular season. Tied with Atlanta, Chicago and Seattle and of the play off teams only better than GB. Don't foget that Detroit only had 10 rushing attemtps (inset LAUGH here) so NO could rush 5 or more as often as they wanted (55% of the time). The Niners can run and run and run all day against the T'aints.
Originally posted by JTsBiggestFan:
Really? Are you sure ALL of his passes that were out that fast??

I could have sworn there was a good # of Tom Brady like pockets...3-4 seconds for some of those long bombs.

Either way I do not think Jim H is underestimating the protection issue.
That's exactly what I saw too. He had all day on some of those bombs.
it seemed like Brees had alot of time because the Lions backed off after Brees did a good job getting rid of the ball. Also, their ability to run the ball also bought Brees more time to make a pass. Couple all of that with teams having to respect the big play down the field, the Lions had to be extra cautious.

the problem with us is, teams don't respect our passing game so they will always play closer to the line of scrimmage. They talked alot about the Saints having "Green Dog" type of blitzes. Basically, if a RB or TE stays in to block, who ever was suppose to guard them quickly blitzes in. That is why it seemed like they blitzed us like crazy in preseason, because we usually do have RBs and TEs to block on 3rd downs.

we are going to have to use that against them. Those wheel routes, like the one we did with Miller against the Redskins should come in handy. To bad we don't have Walker.

Saints are going to blitz us over and over and over next week. I swear if we do not look prepared for that, this coaching staff has failed. It seemed like Alex did a great job getting rid of the ball against the Steelers, so hopefully we build on that.
[ Edited by Afrikan on Jan 8, 2012 at 10:23 AM ]
Sorry OP he had a lot more time than that to throw a lot of his passes. I as well as the rest of the nation saw he had many seconds to throw and a clean pocket for most of the night.
Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
Yup, that 1.5 seconds was the length of time it took Brees to unload the ball and frequently it came out at 1.3 seconds. I posted in an earlier thread that alex has to get the ball gone in less than 2 seconds, once the ball is snapped. Any play taking more than 2.0 seconds is doomed to fail based on a review of game tapes. I knew Brees was quick but had no idea his passes were coming out in less than 1.5 seconds. For those of you accustomed to seeing "3 step or 5 step, or worse, 7 step drops" can see the futility of that way of looking at our Qbs passing. In the game last nite, essentially all passes were in the 1.5 second range whether Stafford threw them or Brees.

Moral:
If Coach Harbaugh has alex taking 3, 5 or worse, 7 step drops, based on last nite's game, all passes from those step drops would fail. The Saints and Lions Ds give the QB no more time than that. Even on a 20+ yd pass, Brees still had it airborne in under 1.5 Seconds. So for alex to be successful he will have to have the ball out of his hand in less than 1.5 seconds, NOT the 2.0 seconds I have stated he needs to sling it in the past.

So we are talking about a sea-change in our Qb calls, meaning every pass needs to be gone in 1.5 seconds, not 2.0 seconds. Those of you who want to see 3, 5 or 7 step drops are going to be disappointed if Coach H allows those calls to be made. We all saw the pasting alex took in the first meeting in preseason. Alex just will not have that kind of time now, and will be relegated to "snapping it and slinging it"...something I have advocated for some time now. One thing that was really a shocker last nite was how fast Brees "sees" the field and lets it fly based on a millisecond of seeing the field and throwing the ball. Good as Aaron Rodgers is, Brees is better timewise. It will be a tough day for carlos, Culliver, T. Brown et al. Brees threw many passes way before the WR made his cut. It was truly impressive.

The big question...can alex get it gone safely in that brief a time span. If he can I think we have a good shot. If he can't we lose. If we see any pass play that takes more than 2 seconds to throw, then Coach Harbaugh has a lot more game film to study and accept the fact that plays requiring more than 2 seconds to get the pass off are going to fail. Aex is doing lots better in this aspect of throwing, but if O calls are made that take time to set up, they will all universally fail. I hope and assume Coach H realizes that. I also fervently hope he calls the O this game. We are going to need him.

of course the time of release is important but not as much than how you designe plays
and we can count on harbaugh for that
that's why alex is successful this year cos alex ain't gonna throw it in less than 3 seconds
he'll never be that QB and JH understands it very well
so ... he designed plays for alex that are working.
If we had Drew we would have a completely different playbook and play calling
Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
Yup, that 1.5 seconds was the length of time it took Brees to unload the ball and frequently it came out at 1.3 seconds. I posted in an earlier thread that alex has to get the ball gone in less than 2 seconds, once the ball is snapped. Any play taking more than 2.0 seconds is doomed to fail based on a review of game tapes. I knew Brees was quick but had no idea his passes were coming out in less than 1.5 seconds. For those of you accustomed to seeing "3 step or 5 step, or worse, 7 step drops" can see the futility of that way of looking at our Qbs passing. In the game last nite, essentially all passes were in the 1.5 second range whether Stafford threw them or Brees.

Moral:
If Coach Harbaugh has alex taking 3, 5 or worse, 7 step drops, based on last nite's game, all passes from those step drops would fail. The Saints and Lions Ds give the QB no more time than that. Even on a 20+ yd pass, Brees still had it airborne in under 1.5 Seconds. So for alex to be successful he will have to have the ball out of his hand in less than 1.5 seconds, NOT the 2.0 seconds I have stated he needs to sling it in the past.

So we are talking about a sea-change in our Qb calls, meaning every pass needs to be gone in 1.5 seconds, not 2.0 seconds. Those of you who want to see 3, 5 or 7 step drops are going to be disappointed if Coach H allows those calls to be made. We all saw the pasting alex took in the first meeting in preseason. Alex just will not have that kind of time now, and will be relegated to "snapping it and slinging it"...something I have advocated for some time now. One thing that was really a shocker last nite was how fast Brees "sees" the field and lets it fly based on a millisecond of seeing the field and throwing the ball. Good as Aaron Rodgers is, Brees is better timewise. It will be a tough day for carlos, Culliver, T. Brown et al. Brees threw many passes way before the WR made his cut. It was truly impressive.

The big question...can alex get it gone safely in that brief a time span. If he can I think we have a good shot. If he can't we lose. If we see any pass play that takes more than 2 seconds to throw, then Coach Harbaugh has a lot more game film to study and accept the fact that plays requiring more than 2 seconds to get the pass off are going to fail. Aex is doing lots better in this aspect of throwing, but if O calls are made that take time to set up, they will all universally fail. I hope and assume Coach H realizes that. I also fervently hope he calls the O this game. We are going to need him.

I'm going to have to disagree with this. There were only few plays that took Brees 1.5 to 2 seconds to throw the ball. The majority of the time took him 4 to 5 seconds or more to throw the ball which is horrible. 49ers' 3 man rush will give Brees 2 seconds.
Originally posted by Mookster:
You're also assuming that Stafford was using a quick throw to beat pressure. This wasn't the case as he wasn't sacked at all last night. NO pass rush isn't that good - they only produced 33 sacks in the regular season. Tied with Atlanta, Chicago and Seattle and of the play off teams only better than GB. Don't foget that Detroit only had 10 rushing attemtps (inset LAUGH here) so NO could rush 5 or more as often as they wanted (55% of the time). The Niners can run and run and run all day against the T'aints.

Stafford DID use quick throws to beat pressure. How does not being sacked prove that?

Detroit passed more often because they don't have a good running game. Their starting RB was someone they cut before the season started, and brought back late in the season.

NO only looked like they rushed 5 because the Lions spread them out. If the Lions had rbs/tes blocking it would've looked like the Saints brought the house more often. That is how they play defense.

teams stack the box against us for a reason. And that will be the same case with the Saints. We don't have Stafford at QB and we don't have Calvin Johnson at WR...along with the Lions attacking scheme. I doubt we will be able to "run, run, run, all day". Saints will sell out until, we back them off. Heck, even then I think they still will sell out. Greg Williams seems like that type of coach.
[ Edited by Afrikan on Jan 8, 2012 at 10:32 AM ]
Here is the bottom line from yesterdays game.....

Brees and Stafford BOTH got rid of the ball in under 2 seconds quite often. Were there plays where they had all day to throw? Sure. But because of their quick releases, they werent blitzed all that much.

Both quarterbacks had lightning quick releases, threw receivers open, and threw the ball before receivers made their breaks (allowing the ball to get to the receiver at the ideal time. These three things are things Alex does do very well.
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Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
Sorry guys, I had stopwatch on Brees, and he gets ball away before 1.5 seconds, and many times at 1.3 seconds. How in the heck he gets a 35 yd pass off that fast is fascinating , but that is what stopwatch said. I think our best hope is moving ALL DONE around and having him rattle BRees. I doubt brees gets rattled, but he hasn't seen ALL DONE yet. IF you doubt the 1.5 seconds, just rewind your tape. It was an experience watching Brees get that puppy out so fast. He sees the field in just an instant which is going to make it hard on our DBs. Stopping their run is going to be key also, as that slows our passrush considerably, if they are eating big chunks on runs. I don't think they can do that against us, but we will have to see. Somehow, the combo of Justin/Big Mac/ Soap/Aldon and p-52/ Bowman is going to have to bring pressure on brees. It will take incredible Dplanning, but that has to happen. Incidentally, stafford also got ball away quick. Both qbs have guns like Marino and are as fast...but brees is faster.
I think the 12 pack you drank before the game effected your reflexes. Add 1.5 seconds to the speed of the average thrown football and it would arrive 35 yards down field in 3.5 seconds after the snap. The fastest NFL receiver in pads is going to take at least 3.9 seconds to get there. Hence you need at least 2 seconds to throw deep.
Originally posted by Afrikan:
Originally posted by Mookster:
You're also assuming that Stafford was using a quick throw to beat pressure. This wasn't the case as he wasn't sacked at all last night. NO pass rush isn't that good - they only produced 33 sacks in the regular season. Tied with Atlanta, Chicago and Seattle and of the play off teams only better than GB. Don't foget that Detroit only had 10 rushing attemtps (inset LAUGH here) so NO could rush 5 or more as often as they wanted (55% of the time). The Niners can run and run and run all day against the T'aints.

Stafford DID use quick throws to beat pressure. How does not being sacked prove that?

Detroit passed more often because they don't have a good running game. Their starting RB was someone they cut before the season started, and brought back late in the season.

NO only looked like they rushed 5 because the Lions spread them out. If the Lions had rbs/tes blocking it would've looked like the Saints brought the house more often. That is how they play defense.

teams stack the box against us for a reason. And that will be the same case with the Saints. We don't have Stafford at QB and we don't have Calvin Johnson at WR...along with the Lions attacking scheme. I doubt we will be able to "run, run, run, all day". Saints will sell out until, we back them off. Heck, even then I think they still will sell out. Greg Williams seems like that type of coach.
Saints gave up 5.0 yds per carry during the regular season. There isn't any reason to believe that can't run the ball on them. If we come out with a balanced attack they don't stand a chance. Lets not forget we played this same exact team last season and played them well.
Originally posted by 49Fever:
of course the time of release is important but not as much than how you designe plays
and we can count on harbaugh for that
that's why alex is successful this year cos alex ain't gonna throw it in less than 3 seconds
he'll never be that QB and JH understands it very well
so ... he designed plays for alex that are working.
If we had Drew we would have a completely different playbook and play calling


Disagree! Smith can get rid of the ball quickly when necessary (not as quick as Brees--agreed). When I watch the receivers run their routes though they often take 3 seconds or more before looking back for the ball. Harbaugh has done a good job of alternating receivers with varying depths, having quick looks, medium looks and slow developing looks. Smith is getting better at identifying which option to use but when the short and medium options are disrupted and he has to hold the ball they get into trouble.

The easiest place to see this is in the screen passes that Smith throws into the ground to prevent interceptions. Where Brees and Smith differ the most is n confidence. Brees has no hesitation in his throws but Smith still seems labored at times...as if he is waiting until he has to get rid of the ball before releasing. He has improved with this throughout the year and I have hopes he will eventually play with the confidence Brees (and other elite QBs) play with.
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Originally posted by oldman9er:
The majority is correct here. Respect to the OP, but Brees on many passes had time to make a sandwich and read the newspaper between snap and throw.

Almost my exact words to my uncles yesterday.