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4-3 Defense??

Originally posted by FunkNinerFlex:
I actually like the defense you posted. But I think Justin is a better inside pass rusher as a DT in a 4-3 than as a DE. Also Justin looks to be more stout against the run than McDonald as a DT. On the oustide, McDonald has more speed than Justin.
Though if we were to switch to a 4-3, there would be less of a chance to extend Bowman's contract. You're not going to spend 10mil on Willis and 7-8mil on Bowman in a 4-3. There's not many 4-3 defenses that tie up 23 million in its LB core. But in a 3-4, I believe the 49ers extend Bowman's contract in the middle of next year before he reaches his last year in 2013 and upcoming free agency.


In the 70s the 9ers used a four man line where each player could play any position...didn't matter DT or DE. Remember and article about Hart, Webb, Elam and Hardman being incredibly flexible as to where they played. They stunted a great deal and Hart was also able to play LB. Heaviest guy was 255!

The current lineup is being used even more creatively and I love it when they all stand up when the opposing team has to pass. Gives them six or seven guys who might or might not be rushing--more depending on the DBs. How they do so well against the run with three down men is beyond me!
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Originally posted by Marvin49:
You could do that, but they are better as they are.

They are pretty much a 4-3 teams now. Aldon moves and can rush from either side, but he rushes on most downs. Either way, they are still going to rush 4. The 3-4 allows you to move Aldon around and put 2 LB in the middle.

The "pure 3-4" and "pure 4-3" don't really exist.

The Niners really kinda run a 3-3 + Aldon.


This! The 9ers move around quite a bit in and out of the 3/4 4/3 and others. Against the Rams they played all up and there was no way to be sure who was going to rush. I hope it gets even more confusing for the opponents and that the 9ers don't get stuck in a predictable rut. Really liked what Baltimore did and would like to see more of a rush by Willis and Bowman eventually. The DC was somewhat surprised that Willis had not been taught the finer arts of pass rushing.

We run mostly 3-4 and if you look at the defenseive personnel you see a boat load of LB's and hybrid-types to support the 3-4 scheme. But we do use elements of the 4-3. The problem with the 4-3 is it's inflexability when the offense audibles and its easily diagnosed and predictable. A good 4-3 D demands that you have 2 really good DT's and not many teams have that. In fact, VF has been realy good at "clouding" the look for QB's making it hard from the to identify the formation. But, not being able to determine the 4th+ rusher is the essence of the 3-4 scheme, hence the reason that many NFL teams are going to it. When the O-line and QB don't know where the 4th rusher is coming from, if it comes at all, that gives the defense a built-in advantage that the offense can't take away. Thats why I don't ever see this team featuring a 4-3 scheme. It will drastically limit what we do defensively. The only thing I think this defense needs is a pure NT, a real tree stump block eating two-gapper (and there are a few guys coming out of college who would be available to us in the draft). I like Isaac Sopoaga. He's filled the NT role. But if we had a pure NT this defense woul be unstoppable.
[ Edited by 9ersLiferInChicago on Jan 7, 2012 at 12:25 PM ]
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
In the 70s the 9ers used a four man line where each player could play any position...didn't matter DT or DE. Remember and article about Hart, Webb, Elam and Hardman being incredibly flexible as to where they played. They stunted a great deal and Hart was also able to play LB. Heaviest guy was 255!

The current lineup is being used even more creatively and I love it when they all stand up when the opposing team has to pass. Gives them six or seven guys who might or might not be rushing--more depending on the DBs. How they do so well against the run with three down men is beyond me!
Didn't the late 80s D coordinator of the Vikings Floyd Peters help out with that team? He used to stunt Doleman and Millard also when they played the 49ers.
"In my book, The Super '70s, I did an entire chapter on Cedrick Hardman and the old 49ers' Gold Rush — Hardman and Tommy Hart and Cleveland Elam and Jimmy Webb. Hardman was one of the top sackers of the 1970s, and just as I started the tape recorder he said, "Before we go on, I can never give enough credit to coach Floyd Peters. … You cannot say any of our names without calling Floyd Peters' name. He was the greatest specialist at choreographing the movement of a pass rush. You need to call him, too."

Yes he did. The rest of the story was quite sad as Peters suffered from dementia no doubt from football. He couldn't remember anything about his experience or the people in the NFL. The above is an excert from Tom Danyluk's story on NFL in the 70's.
[ Edited by dtg_9er on Jan 7, 2012 at 4:38 PM ]
Doesn't sound as crazy as it used to with this Haralson issue and Haggans' suspension.
Originally posted by zillabeast:
Doesn't sound as crazy as it used to with this Haralson issue and Haggans' suspension.

I can see going between 3-4 and 4-3

3-4 Base

OLB- Aldon
ILB- Willis
ILB- Bowman
OLB- Brooks

DE- Justin
NT- Sopoaga
DE- Ray Mac

4-3 Base

OLB- Ahmad
ILB- Willis
OLB- Bowman

DE- Aldon
DT- McDonald
DT- Sopoaga
DE- Justin

I wouldn't be surprised if we are doing this, I've seen Brooks line up as a DE. But is hard to tell. You could interchange it. I believe Justin Smith played DT in the Bengals 4-3 defense prior to 2008 when we signed him.
Last year, this team often went with 3 down lineman as the sole pass rushers on 3rd down.

This year I think having 4 down lineman on 3rd down passing plays would be lethal if the lineup was:

DE: Aldon
DT: McDonald
DT: J. Smith
DE: Brooks

This scheme could also come up in Fangio's hybrid, versatile 3-4 defense.

OLB: Bowman
MLB: PWilly
OLB: Grant




Championship
Originally posted by AB83Rules:
I can see going between 3-4 and 4-3

3-4 Base

OLB- Aldon
ILB- Willis
ILB- Bowman
OLB- Brooks

DE- Justin
NT- Sopoaga
DE- Ray Mac

4-3 Base

OLB- Ahmad
ILB- Willis
OLB- Bowman

DE- Aldon
DT- McDonald
DT- Sopoaga
DE- Justin

I wouldn't be surprised if we are doing this, I've seen Brooks line up as a DE. But is hard to tell. You could interchange it. I believe Justin Smith played DT in the Bengals 4-3 defense prior to 2008 when we signed him.

Correct me if I'm wrong but don't the 49ers are already switch from the two different types of defense?
Originally posted by taney71:
Originally posted by AB83Rules:
I can see going between 3-4 and 4-3

3-4 Base

OLB- Aldon
ILB- Willis
ILB- Bowman
OLB- Brooks

DE- Justin
NT- Sopoaga
DE- Ray Mac

4-3 Base

OLB- Ahmad
ILB- Willis
OLB- Bowman

DE- Aldon
DT- McDonald
DT- Sopoaga
DE- Justin

I wouldn't be surprised if we are doing this, I've seen Brooks line up as a DE. But is hard to tell. You could interchange it. I believe Justin Smith played DT in the Bengals 4-3 defense prior to 2008 when we signed him.

Correct me if I'm wrong but don't the 49ers are already switch from the two different types of defense?

Yes we were a 3-4 back in the late 80's then Seifert switched to a 4-3 mainly because of the Cowboys' running game back then with Emmit Smith. George was crying in his cereal bowl when he had to let a young Ted Washington (yes that ProBowler Ted Washington of the Bills and Patriots) and Romo go.

Going by AB's list, which seems to make sense with the players in the 3-4 and 4-3 lineup. But unless we start tanking in the run stopping department, I don't see why we would switch to a 4-3 because we essentially have the same playmakers on the field whether 3-4 or 4-3. Only difference is Aldon in the 3 pts stance or up straight. If we can stop the run than it's better to have 4 athletic backers to cover the middle of the defense against the pass underneath where most teams are making their money.
[ Edited by qnnhan7 on Sep 3, 2012 at 6:54 AM ]
They just signed Ahmad Brooks, a 34 OLB to a 50 million dollar extension.
  • MarkD
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Why not go to a 4-6
Fangio is the man- let's roll.
An idle mind is the devil's workshop.
Originally posted by GIMMEa6thSHIP:
This is off base but I was having a conversation with some friends and the 4-3 defense came up. I know Fangio's specialty is the 3-4 but what would you guys think of our front 7 as a 4-3?

OLB: Larry Grant
ILB: Patrick Willis
OLB: NaVarro Bowman

DE: Aldon Smith
DT: Ray McDonald
NT: Isaac Sopoaga
DE: Justin Smith

bowman and Grant as olbs?
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