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Week 16: Thoughts after re-watching the game...

Originally posted by 12b6demurrer:
I really think Goldson's picks have been a result of lucky errant throws rather than actually being great in coverage. Rogers undercuts routes and gets his INTs in coverage. Goldson is just kind of in the right place at the right time when a really bad throw is made. Even his Big Ben pick was off of an errant pass - granted he did alright to shadow the TE, but if Ben is healthy, that's a coverage breakdown on the reception.


Originally posted by Loco49er:
I agree, I can't think of any picks that are a result of him making a play on the ball. His tackling is a liability and he takes bad angles. I hope he stays and improves but he definitely doesn't deserve a huge contract.

Having played FS before, I would have to say you guys are really not understanding of the position.

First off Rogers is playing CB so saying that he undercuts routs better that Deshon is just plain pointing out the obvious lol FS are there to help out the CB mostly playing zones rarely playing man, having to know when its a pass or a run or what we call a High hat, low hat. It doesn't make much sense to compare Rogers to Deshon. Deshon does a great job of always being around the ball and it doesn't matter if they are tipped balls or not, the fact that he is almost always around for those tipped passes should tell you a lot about him. Deshon does a great job of always recognizing the deep threat hence why hes always around the ball, and is very good at recognizing the run, yes he misses tackles but when you have an aggressive FS that will happen from time to time.
Originally posted by Natewillis2252:
Having played FS before, I would have to say you guys are really not understanding of the position.

First off Rogers is playing CB so saying that he undercuts routs better that Deshon is just plain pointing out the obvious lol FS are there to help out the CB mostly playing zones rarely playing man, having to know when its a pass or a run or what we call a High hat, low hat. It doesn't make much sense to compare Rogers to Deshon. Deshon does a great job of always being around the ball and it doesn't matter if they are tipped balls or not, the fact that he is almost always around for those tipped passes should tell you a lot about him. Deshon does a great job of always recognizing the deep threat hence why hes always around the ball, and is very good at recognizing the run, yes he misses tackles but when you have an aggressive FS that will happen from time to time.

I understand the free safety's role. That being said, there's something to be said about making plays on the ball when you're in the area. I never said anything about "tipped passes" so I'm not sure where you got that from, but in any event, he's good at being in the area. I recognize that. But he's not good at making plays on the ball. At the pro level, elite free safeties who demand the money Dashon will demand (and did demand in the offseason) should be able to do that.
How does he have 6 INT's if hes not making plays on the ball? He is 6th in the NFL in passes defensed for the safety position.

I mentioned tipped passes because that was used a lot by WZ's

And its something to be said when the players and coaches think he is good enough to make the PB
[ Edited by Natewillis2252 on Dec 28, 2011 at 12:33 AM ]
Can someone please tell Donte Whitner to wrap up on tackles and quit trying to lower his shoulder to blow guys up. He is a small safety and shouldn't be trying to lay the lumber because there is a bunch of plays he has cost the team extra yardage trying to do this. Really getting frustrating and also CATCH THE FREAKING BALL when it is in your hands. Dude is more of a liability than Dashon is. Just my ¢.2 cents.
I hate the Seahawks, at least the Cardinals beat us with class. I'd be circling that date on the calendar for next year...
Originally posted by Natewillis2252:
How does he have 6 INT's if hes not making plays on the ball? He is 6th in the NFL in passes defensed for the safety position.

I mentioned tipped passes because that was used a lot by WZ's

And its something to be said when the players and coaches think he is good enough to make the PB

Where'd you get 6th? Even if you include ties I'm not sure he's 6th overall considering there are 16 guys above him in PDs.
[ Edited by 12b6demurrer on Dec 28, 2011 at 7:53 AM ]
Same as alot of the others, Thanks and good job.

But I do agree with you on Goldson and Grant. I think Goldson is def the weakest link. HIs big hits are not a fair trade for the missed ones. I much rather have a sure tackler since the S is the last guy.... Leave the big hits to the LB's..... THen on to Grant. I like him as a top backup, hes aggressive likes contact plays ST. BUT once again but he is no P-Willy.

I say resign Grant to little 2yr performance based contract (I know he might get offered $$$ from someone, or a starter spot somewhere else) and tell him we will make some base packages for him to get on the field and promote his services..
Goldson.... At this point (I mean after the season) I let him walk, Let M.williams or R.Smith Battle for the spot and draft early for a true "centerfield S"
Dashon Goldson glad he got to the Pro Bowl. Been rooting for Goldson since he was drafted and came up as backup. Nice to see our own guys getting the success. If Goldson can work on better tackling and improved his recognition just a little more, he would be on the level of Troy Polamalu. Right now he has the speed and the physical presence at FS. A sign of a good safety is he 'always seems to be around the ball'. Like Merton Hanks. Gave himself opportunities to make play on the ball whether tipped, INTs, fumbles, stripped balls, etc.
[ Edited by qnnhan7 on Dec 28, 2011 at 8:06 AM ]
Also, just to be clear, I like Goldson. I think he has out performed his draft position and definitely out performed his salary this year. But based off of this past offseason, I get the impression he is going to want elite money, and that was before he made a Pro Bowl. I'd like to retain him and he definitely deserves some kind of pay day, but not Ed Reed money.
Absolutly agree on Grant, if Willis is in that TD doesn't happen. I also think we win in AZ with Willis. That being said I still think grant starts on 93.75% of teams on the league.
Originally posted by oldninerdude:

BTW, I thought the OL had an outstanding game in a very hostile environment.

Agreed, OL was awesome in Seattle. I don't think they had any false starts and if they did it was more than 1 or 2.

Good Job Marvin!
Originally posted by Natewillis2252:
Originally posted by 12b6demurrer:
I really think Goldson's picks have been a result of lucky errant throws rather than actually being great in coverage. Rogers undercuts routes and gets his INTs in coverage. Goldson is just kind of in the right place at the right time when a really bad throw is made. Even his Big Ben pick was off of an errant pass - granted he did alright to shadow the TE, but if Ben is healthy, that's a coverage breakdown on the reception.


Originally posted by Loco49er:
I agree, I can't think of any picks that are a result of him making a play on the ball. His tackling is a liability and he takes bad angles. I hope he stays and improves but he definitely doesn't deserve a huge contract.

Having played FS before, I would have to say you guys are really not understanding of the position.

First off Rogers is playing CB so saying that he undercuts routs better that Deshon is just plain pointing out the obvious lol FS are there to help out the CB mostly playing zones rarely playing man, having to know when its a pass or a run or what we call a High hat, low hat. It doesn't make much sense to compare Rogers to Deshon. Deshon does a great job of always being around the ball and it doesn't matter if they are tipped balls or not, the fact that he is almost always around for those tipped passes should tell you a lot about him. Deshon does a great job of always recognizing the deep threat hence why hes always around the ball, and is very good at recognizing the run, yes he misses tackles but when you have an aggressive FS that will happen from time to time.

Thats kinda what I was saying before. You have to give him credit for always being in the vicinity, but he is very often a step late (so he gets the hit instead of breaking up the pass) or breaks down and misses the tackle. When a pass is tipped or a fumble is caused, he's always around the ball. Thats MUCH better than Reggie Smith who is really good at covering grass.

I think Goldson is an above average to good FS, I just don't think he's worth the mountain of money he'll likey be offered in the offseason.
Originally posted by Natewillis2252:
How does he have 6 INT's if hes not making plays on the ball? He is 6th in the NFL in passes defensed for the safety position.

I mentioned tipped passes because that was used a lot by WZ's

And its something to be said when the players and coaches think he is good enough to make the PB

Again. Not saying he sucks. I just don't think he's as good as some peeps in the 'zone think he is. He is FAR better tho than anyone else on the roster.
Originally posted by SandSlingin49er:
Same as alot of the others, Thanks and good job.

But I do agree with you on Goldson and Grant. I think Goldson is def the weakest link. HIs big hits are not a fair trade for the missed ones. I much rather have a sure tackler since the S is the last guy.... Leave the big hits to the LB's..... THen on to Grant. I like him as a top backup, hes aggressive likes contact plays ST. BUT once again but he is no P-Willy.

I say resign Grant to little 2yr performance based contract (I know he might get offered $$$ from someone, or a starter spot somewhere else) and tell him we will make some base packages for him to get on the field and promote his services..
Goldson.... At this point (I mean after the season) I let him walk, Let M.williams or R.Smith Battle for the spot and draft early for a true "centerfield S"

Yes. Goldson is the Anti-Willis. You actually seldom see Patrick just completely blow someone up. If its there, he'll do it, but what he does better than anyone I've ever seen is simply get to the ball carrier faster than any player I've ever seen and bring him down unfailingly. Guys just don't get away from Patrick.

Dashon goes for the kill shot and very often flat misses tackles.
Originally posted by sincalniner:
Absolutly agree on Grant, if Willis is in that TD doesn't happen. I also think we win in AZ with Willis. That being said I still think grant starts on 93.75% of teams on the league.

I wouldn't go that far. He's played well, but it helps to have multiple Pro Bowlers around you and a possible DROY.