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Question about trying to always win the game....

Originally posted by Natewillis2252:
I understand the hypothetical question but no team would ever kneel it when they have an opportunity to win the game with a kick, espesially on the Lambs 20 yd line. Maybe if you would have said we were out of field goal range and the Lambs had time to go down the field for their own FG attempt, then maybe we kneel it.

I just can't agree to that. It lowers our chances of winning the Super Bowl. There's probably a 1% or so chance that the kick gets blocked and returned for a TD. Boom, bye and hosting New Orleans turns into no bye and playing @ New Orleans. That's just silly to risk the 1%. You do what gives you the best chance to go to the Super Bowl. End of story. You concede the smaller goal to maximize the chances of the bigger goal. Herm Edwards' phrase should be re-done, not "You play to win the game", it should be "You play [a season] to win the Super Bowl." You don't play to win the game if winning the game does not help your chances to win the Super Bowl, compared to the alternative (a tie). In other words, in THIS particular case, you play to not lose the game.
Kneeling would severely damage the offense's and special teams' morale going into the playoffs. You're showing you don't trust either unit to execute and win the game. It's better to have your squad thinking they can go anywhere and do anything asked of them. What's the point of having the #2 seed with 2 units with blown confidence? Secure the #2 seed and lose at home because you showed your players you don't think they're good enough to win. That's great.

That goes for both of your scenarios. And if you don't think that can happen, you're fooling yourself.
Originally posted by andes14:
Hypothetically, let's say we were playing the game vs. the Rams needing only to win or TIE to clinch the #2 seed (I guess that would mean N.O. tied vs. Carolina?)...and let's say we were in overtime on the Rams' 20 with 1 second left. Do we kick the field goal to win the game, or do we take a knee knowing a tie is just as good as the win and knowing that if STL miraculously blocked the kick and returned it for a TD, we'd lose the bye...in other words, when you know a tie is just as good as a win, do you risk losing the game (granted it's a very low chance, but still) in order to win the game (very good chance), or do you do the logical thing and settle for the tie?

You're a glass half empty type of guy aren't you...
49ersRider, that's exactly what I was trying to say. The plain and simple part is that the Herm Edwards phrase you just used and then remodeled still works both ways, you play the game to win. Not to tie. Professional athletes, coaches etc. Live by the fact that there can only be one winner, not a tie making both teams winner. Especially with harbaughs "1 game at a time" mentality. You go into every game to dominate, and you want your team to go into every game knowing they are winners especially playoff caliber games, which usually comes from a win the previous week. Luckily this is a hypothetical question and the reality is the odds of it even getting to the point you are trying to make are even less then 1%
Ohhh noezzzz, watch out for the 1% !!!!
Originally posted by LoneWolf:
49ersRider, that's exactly what I was trying to say. The plain and simple part is that the Herm Edwards phrase you just used and then remodeled still works both ways, you play the game to win. Not to tie. Professional athletes, coaches etc. Live by the fact that there can only be one winner, not a tie making both teams winner. Especially with harbaughs "1 game at a time" mentality. You go into every game to dominate, and you want your team to go into every game knowing they are winners especially playoff caliber games, which usually comes from a win the previous week. Luckily this is a hypothetical question and the reality is the odds of it even getting to the point you are trying to make are even less then 1%

Not true. The average team attempts about 30 field goals per year. That would mean for it to have a 1% chance of happening, that it happens once every 3+ years which seems pretty fair to me. Don't forget we did it in BACK to BACK weeks in '09. Kicks being blocked and returned for 6 is not exactly tantamount to catching lightning in a bottle.

I know Akers has had at least a couple kicks blocked this year. Now, fortunately none were returned for touchdowns, but when a kick IS blocked, there is always a very real chance of that. A DB picks it up and the only people near him would be the holder and the kicker, neither of which are exactly gonna be very likely to make a tackle.
[ Edited by andes14 on Dec 29, 2011 at 10:27 AM ]
Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Ohhh noezzzz, watch out for the 1% !!!!

Why risk 1% for ABSOLUTELY no reason? If someone asked you to sign a piece of paper saying there's a 1% chance you'd lose all your money by the next day (and there was no chance of like a reward or anything, just strictly that risk), would you sign it just because it's very unlikely?

Getting in a plane crash is a FAAAAAAAAAAAR less than 1% chance. TONS of people (plenty of smart, rational people) are scared to fly though. Do all people that are afraid of flying belong in an insane asylum? Winning the lottery is a FAAAAAAAAAAAR less than 1% chance. TONS of people (plenty of smart, rational people) buy lottery tickets. Are they all just certifiably insane? If you meet someone who buys a lotto ticket once in a while, do you judge them negatively?
[ Edited by andes14 on Dec 29, 2011 at 10:19 AM ]
Originally posted by andes14:
Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Ohhh noezzzz, watch out for the 1% !!!!

Why risk 1% for ABSOLUTELY no reason? If someone asked you to sign a piece of paper saying there's a 1% chance you'd lose all your money by the next day (and there was no chance of like a reward or anything, just strictly that risk), would you sign it just because it's very unlikely?

Getting in a plane crash is a FAAAAAAAAAAAR less than 1% chance. TONS of people (plenty of smart, rational people) are scared to fly though. Do all people that are afraid of flying belong in an insane asylum? Winning the lottery is a FAAAAAAAAAAAR less than 1% chance. TONS of people (plenty of smart, rational people) buy lottery tickets. Are they all just certifiably insane? If you meet someone who buys a lotto ticket once in a while, do you judge them negatively?

Going out of your house or apt and getting into a car accident is greater than 1% so should you stay home?

There are far more dangerous things you go through that are far more over 1% but we go ahead and do it

Just relax, watch the 9ers win and if they can't then they can't... we still move on
Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Going out of your house or apt and getting into a car accident is greater than 1% so should you stay home?

There are far more dangerous things you go through that are far more over 1% but we go ahead and do it

Just relax, watch the 9ers win and if they can't then they can't... we still move on

You go in your car and drive because there is an advantage- it won't take you 2 hours to go some place that's 5 miles away...here, winning the game provides no advantage.

p.s. you're the world's worst driver if you get into a car accident 1 in every 100 times you drive. Hope I never see you on the road.
By the numbers the odds (based on stats from this year) are 2% that it will be blocked, but as of now I don't know of any touchdowns scored off of blocked field goals this season, which would put that at a (statistically) 0% chance of a score based on statistics. Now basing it off of the explosiveness of our special teams i.e. blocked punt last weekend deep in our own territory which we recovered, Im pretty sure we would recover and tie even if it was blocked. Hypothetically what do you think the odds are someone with answer your question with an answer your agree with?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Miracle_at_the_Meadowlands

You always take the sure thing.
Originally posted by andes14:
Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Going out of your house or apt and getting into a car accident is greater than 1% so should you stay home?

There are far more dangerous things you go through that are far more over 1% but we go ahead and do it

Just relax, watch the 9ers win and if they can't then they can't... we still move on

You go in your car and drive because there is an advantage- it won't take you 2 hours to go some place that's 5 miles away...here, winning the game provides no advantage.

p.s. you're the world's worst driver if you get into a car accident 1 in every 100 times you drive. Hope I never see you on the road.

You must be the dumbest mfkr on this planet lol, I tried to see your way but I can't ! This is funkn football we are talking about and you play to win/beat the team in front of you no matter what.

I know you haven't experienced any winning 9er seasons because this post wouldn't have been made. I've forgotten how many games I've BEEN to then you have so called probably have seen !

If you got more idiotic sayings let me know and we can meet at the stick parking lot playoff game day
Reminds me of harbaugh opting for the safety against the bengals, Harbaugh would definitely kneel the ball on the tie scenario.
I can't believe how bent some people got by a HYPOTHETICAL scenario that is a interesting thing to think about.

What an odd situation that would be. I think if it were under 2:00 in OT and STL had no TO's and the 9ers are anywhere inside their own 30, then the kneel down idea seems to be the right play to me. Yeah it's not thrilling, but to think SF's O and ST would feel dissed is a stretch. These are smart guys who i think would understand the context of that moment. Strange things happen at the end of football games and I'd rather see the strange thing be Alex Smith kneel the ball to end overtime then to have a turnover or have a GW FG blocked. Winning is nice and we did it enough during the ENTIRE SEASON that if a tie would clinch the #2 seed, then you be smart, not greedy. If that did somehow happen, we'd move on and prepare to host a playoff game at the stick divisional weekend! Who by then would be thinking about the week 17 game against the Rams? Happy New Year.
First of all, JH will play for the win.
Two, even though there is always a chance to mess up, what you are saying to the special teams is that you don't trust them. Then when you come to the playoffs they will be thinking don't screw it up rather than this is for the win. You trust the people who came with you to the dance-and that is Fred Ackers and co., without them we wouldn't be where we are.
Teams that play conservatively, often lose games or don't win the big one.