Why are we so bad in the Red Zone??

Originally posted by valrod33:

Originally posted by krizay:
To me it's the QB-WR relationships. Smith looks and throws alot of the "back shoulder fades" which to me is the perfect pass. However, Crabs andd Edwards seems to not be expecting them. Edwards seems to just throw a hand out and while Crabs adjusts to make the catch he seems to adjust too late. Again, not appearing to be expecting it.

With that said, while I think the back should fade is the best route to throw down there. Smith's passes are far from perfect. While they are usually only where his guys can catch them. He tends to throw it about a half a yard too short. Which makes their adjustments that much more difficult.


EVERYONE blitzes on the goalline so to expect our o-line to "get a push" down there more times often or not is not realistic. Especially against an already good front.

I think Edwards problem with the back shoulder throw is he is running his route to deep, Alex has been throwing those at the pylon and Braylon is halfway in the endzone, the play is there its open they just need to get on the same page

Agree. Edwards ran that too deep. Just turn at the goalline, catch the ball, look down on the DB as he's sliding down to your ankles and extend the ball over the line. It's like he was trying to drive the DB off.

there isnt just 1 factor---though i am really wondering about some of the play calls....one that really galled me was that one in red zone vs cards when they had smith roll left and try to cut up field with a run....

Originally posted by valrod33:

Originally posted by krizay:
To me it's the QB-WR relationships. Smith looks and throws alot of the "back shoulder fades" which to me is the perfect pass. However, Crabs andd Edwards seems to not be expecting them. Edwards seems to just throw a hand out and while Crabs adjusts to make the catch he seems to adjust too late. Again, not appearing to be expecting it.

With that said, while I think the back should fade is the best route to throw down there. Smith's passes are far from perfect. While they are usually only where his guys can catch them. He tends to throw it about a half a yard too short. Which makes their adjustments that much more difficult.


EVERYONE blitzes on the goalline so to expect our o-line to "get a push" down there more times often or not is not realistic. Especially against an already good front.

I think Edwards problem with the back shoulder throw is he is running his route to deep, Alex has been throwing those at the pylon and Braylon is halfway in the endzone, the play is there its open they just need to get on the same page

We've tried that play about 6-7 times this year, and haven't hit ONE of them. I've seen Rogers make that same throw 14+ times just from watching Sportscenter highlights.

Smith is terrified of the interception, so he throws them way too far away and/or high. Half of the time we would have touchdowns if Smith would just play catch like the DB is not even there.

Like Steve Young said, you've got to have a back-yard football type of mentality in the redzone and just make a throw like an artist, not like a scientist.

Originally posted by BrianGO:

Originally posted by valrod33:

Originally posted by krizay:

To me it's the QB-WR relationships. Smith looks and throws alot of the "back shoulder fades" which to me is the perfect pass. However, Crabs andd Edwards seems to not be expecting them. Edwards seems to just throw a hand out and while Crabs adjusts to make the catch he seems to adjust too late. Again, not appearing to be expecting it.

With that said, while I think the back should fade is the best route to throw down there. Smith's passes are far from perfect. While they are usually only where his guys can catch them. He tends to throw it about a half a yard too short. Which makes their adjustments that much more difficult.


EVERYONE blitzes on the goalline so to expect our o-line to "get a push" down there more times often or not is not realistic. Especially against an already good front.

I think Edwards problem with the back shoulder throw is he is running his route to deep, Alex has been throwing those at the pylon and Braylon is halfway in the endzone, the play is there its open they just need to get on the same page

We've tried that play about 6-7 times this year, and haven't hit ONE of them. I've seen Rogers make that same throw 14+ times just from watching Sportscenter highlights.

Smith is terrified of the interception, so he throws them way too far away and/or high. Half of the time we would have touchdowns if Smith would just play catch like the DB is not even there.

Like Steve Young said, you've got to have a back-yard football type of mentality in the redzone and just make a throw like an artist, not like a scientist.

I always say, just throw it just above the DB's head. If he turns his head or tries to bat it down, it's the farthest distance he will need to move his arms to get to the ball. If its to the sides, he barely needs to lift his arm to bat it.

Originally posted by 5280High:
Its already been addressed. This team is behind the eight ball in terms of red zone offense. The coaches did not include the full red zone package when first putting in the offense, now they are gameplanning for each team on a weekly basis. They are playing catch up on this phase of the game and in all honestly it looks like some of the things the coaches expected to work just arent working but during game time its too late. We've seen plays that work like having crabtree coming out of the backfield, but when the power running game gets nullified, defenses will key in on all the plays we've already ran in the season that worked... thats professional football. Things work once but rarely work again once they are on tape.

Bottom line, without any push we can just force our way into the endzone, and Alex, even though he is having a spectacular year, is still being protected with the play calling.

In the end, Im not worried because the AZ game plan looked like it was trying to open up different dynamics of the offense and it didnt work out. For all the guys who wanted to use these last few games to test the capabilities of the players in this offense... well there it is, and it didnt work. Expect to keep seeing pass heavy game plans so that our players can get reps in gametime, sometimes successful and sometimes not successful. But come playoffs, they will go back to the bread and butter of the jumbo package and multiple shifting. This is how teams get better, yes it may cost a bye in the 1st round... but how many recent superbowl champs had a bye going into the playoffs? It's kind of a toss up whether the week of rest helps, or whether teams continuing the grind week after week have an advantage. But at least we have one home playoff game no matter what, and thats the real advantage.

I agree with you almost 100%. We're trying too hard to open things up before the playoffs, and get everybody involved in the gameplan, that we're not keeping it simple enough and just using our skill-players for each duty (due to an ignorant fear of becoming too predictable, and searching for something that isn't there).

Our best redzone threats are probably Crabtree-slants, Miller/Hunter-bootlegs to the outside, Smith-to-davis sprint right options, and Williams-play-action; yet all we see lately is Gore up the middle, Ginn-curl routes, and Edwards drops.

We're gonna kick ass Monday.

Originally posted by Joecool:
I always say, just throw it just above the DB's head. If he turns his head or tries to bat it down, it's the farthest distance he will need to move his arms to get to the ball. If its to the sides, he barely needs to lift his arm to bat it.

Funny you should mention throwing just above the DBs head. I was watching NE highlights and noticed how many of Brady's passes whizzed right by the DBs head before he had a chance to turn. The receiver turns just at the right moment and the ball is there. This type of timing requires the receiver and QB to be really in sync and Smith has only shown this type of chemistry with VD and Morgan the past few years. Crabtree is getting there now but VD is MIA and Morgan is out for the year. The team really needs Williams or Edwards (or both) to step up.

Smith has completed 7 of 25 red-zone passes for 56 yards with two touchdowns and one interception the past six weeks. Here's a look at his red-zone targets during that stretch:

Michael Crabtree: 1 of 5, 4 yards, 0 TD, 1 INT

Braylon Edwards: 0 of 4, 0 yards, 0 TD, 0 INT

Delanie Walker: 0 of 4, 0 yards, 0 TD, 0 INT

Ted Ginn: 1 of 3, 7  yards, 0 TD, 0 INT

Frank Gore: 0 of 3, 0 yards, 0 TD, 0 INT

Vernon Davis: 2 of 2, 27 yards, 1 TD, 0 INT

Bruce Miller: 2 of 2, 10 yards, 0 TD, 0 INT

Kyle Williams: 1 of 2, 8 yards, 1 TD, INT

Originally posted by Jakemall:
Smith has completed 7 of 25 red-zone passes for 56 yards with two touchdowns and one interception the past six weeks. Here's a look at his red-zone targets during that stretch:

Michael Crabtree: 1 of 5, 4 yards, 0 TD, 1 INT

Braylon Edwards: 0 of 4, 0 yards, 0 TD, 0 INT

Delanie Walker: 0 of 4, 0 yards, 0 TD, 0 INT

Ted Ginn: 1 of 3, 7 yards, 0 TD, 0 INT

Frank Gore: 0 of 3, 0 yards, 0 TD, 0 INT

Vernon Davis: 2 of 2, 27 yards, 1 TD, 0 INT

Bruce Miller: 2 of 2, 10 yards, 0 TD, 0 INT

Kyle Williams: 1 of 2, 8 yards, 1 TD, INT

Some of these guys were on the bench when they call the plays. The coaches and this whole offense needs to get it together. Crush the bird in 1 hand and bazooka the 2 in the bush.

All I know is we need to start scoring some TD's with our base offense , we havent really put many points on the board when we use the Jumbo packages, teams have prepared for it and it is not as effective as it once was ...we have been settling for FG's for too long, it's time to start punching it in for 6 ...we need our best weapons on the field when we get to the redzone ..extra offensive lineman in the game limit what we can do ...I hope we use it in short yardage situations , but we gotta start getting the ball in our playmakers hands in the redzone and FAST

Originally posted by Jakemall:
Smith has completed 7 of 25 red-zone passes for 56 yards with two touchdowns and one interception the past six weeks. Here's a look at his red-zone targets during that stretch:


Vernon Davis: 2 of 2, 27 yards, 1 TD, 0 INT

Thats a reason why we need to use Vernon Davis more. i mean shoot in madden if its 3rd and anything im throwing to VD its like rigged.. Litterally just have nernon davis run, and then throw the ball 2 seconds before he turns so when he doesn turn boom its in his stomach. and his feet are in the endzone.. Fwalah TD

Originally posted by SundayTicket:

Originally posted by Jakemall:
Smith has completed 7 of 25 red-zone passes for 56 yards with two touchdowns and one interception the past six weeks. Here's a look at his red-zone targets during that stretch:


Vernon Davis: 2 of 2, 27 yards, 1 TD, 0 INT

Thats a reason why we need to use Vernon Davis more. i mean shoot in madden if its 3rd and anything im throwing to VD its like rigged.. Litterally just have nernon davis run, and then throw the ball 2 seconds before he turns so when he doesn turn boom its in his stomach. and his feet are in the endzone.. Fwalah TD

Maddenize Smith & the offense

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by Joecool:
I always say, just throw it just above the DB's head. If he turns his head or tries to bat it down, it's the farthest distance he will need to move his arms to get to the ball. If its to the sides, he barely needs to lift his arm to bat it.

Funny you should mention throwing just above the DBs head. I was watching NE highlights and noticed how many of Brady's passes whizzed right by the DBs head before he had a chance to turn. The receiver turns just at the right moment and the ball is there. This type of timing requires the receiver and QB to be really in sync and Smith has only shown this type of chemistry with VD and Morgan the past few years. Crabtree is getting there now but VD is MIA and Morgan is out for the year. The team really needs Williams or Edwards (or both) to step up.

Totally about practice on these. But it amazes me how many times QB's try to throw on the left or right of a DB that is not looking. If WR's can barely get their arms to the spot above their heads in time to catch the ball, no way a DB who isn't even looking at the ball would be able to do it. Whenever it's thrown to the side, DB's who aren't looking just take a blind swat and sometimes bat it down.


Also, the stats of the targets does show that Alex has a lot of work to do when it comes to throwing outside the hash in the Red Zone unless it is a good design to get an underneath route to the flat open like to Miller.

THANK GOD


"We're going to work on it more," Harbaugh explained. "There's going to be more than one (practice rep) -- we're going from two to three (extra red zone practice reps)."


http://www.examiner.com/san-francisco-49ers-in-san-francisco/49ers-to-spend-extra-time-this-week-to-improve-their-red-zone-offense

CHAMPIONSHIP

Originally posted by valrod33:
CHAMPIONSHIP