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It's official 49ers have the worst red zone offense in the league

Originally posted by Young2Rice:
Originally posted by defenderDX:
It's not just all Alex, I want to know WHY we have receivers like Ginn and Braylon in our redzone packages and not Crabs or Williams... Alex and Braylon just cannot if their life depended on it connect on those damn back shoulder throws whatsoever..... And the ball is never thrown inside the endzone, always outside to the sideline. If we've learned anything from Alex THIS season it's that his accuracy seems to be a lot better when thrown in the middle of the field, deep middle, or to crossing routes. Not understanding the play-calling/personnel groupings at all when it comes to inside the 20....

Of course its not just Alex. But he is the QB and has a big hand in the woes.

Alex rarely uses the back shoulder throw,. I've seen it a handfull of times this year. This requires accuracy and confidence in your abilities and confidence in your WRs. Alex has none of these attributes.

The ball is never thrown inside because we have a scared QB. There are always routes in the middle like crab slants on short crossing patterns. Alex doesn't pull the trigger and chooses the safe sideline throws. This is true even when not in the endzone. He RARELY throws the ball deep middle of the field, effectivly giving up opportunity to make big plays. This is evident as we barelty have any big gains pasing. In fact, we have bigger total gains in the run, which is sad.

The play calling is handcuffed with a guy who is to afraid to pull the trigger.

Not at all. I don't believe that nonsense that he is "scared" one bit. Why was it he was one of the most efficient Qb's in the redzone the past 2 seasons and not this one? Obviously it's because of the playcalling and personnel we have in that area. And to cap it off obviously sub-par execution. Those throws to the sideline are "designed" plays. Alex see's before the ball is snapped Braylon is in man with the CB opposing him and goes to him immediately. I have said Alex does not have good sideline accuracy, and this backs it up. He is more accurate when throwing to crossing routes and deep routes down the middle then anything down the sideline. Crabs and Williams were HARDLY utilized this last game in the redzone and instead Ginn and Braylon were used which is BS.

All the niners should practice this week is nothing but redzone offense IMO. And Alex SERIOUSLY needs to take more/extra reps with Braylon.
Put Kap or Tolzien in when we are in the red zone because its clear that Alex is just scared to take chances.
I have asked this in multiple threads and have not gotten a single answer.

Does ANYONE have Alex's redzone statistics prior to this year?

NO, I am not asking for his interception numbers.

NO, I am not asking for his QB rating.

I am asking for his number of redzone touchdowns he has in relation to the number of redzone trips.

What % of time does Alex throw a touchdown when in the redzone?

What % of plays does Alex actually throw the ball in the redzone?

The only reason I am asking these is because I have a sneaky suspicion that his %s are AWFUL in relation to other QBs in the league. I ask this because I feel like his low TD% and low interceptions are largely due to his lack of actually attempting passes.

My hypothesis is that his good RZQBR and lack of RZINT over his career are directly correlated to how he has a good QBR and low INTs this year. My hypothesis is that Alex limited his mistakes in the redzone by not taking chances, much like our coaches have told him to do on the entire field this year.

Can someone prove my hypothesis to be correct or incorrect? Or will this post just be ignored for the 5th time on NT?
Originally posted by 80sbaby24:
I have asked this in multiple threads and have not gotten a single answer.

Does ANYONE have Alex's redzone statistics prior to this year?

NO, I am not asking for his interception numbers.

NO, I am not asking for his QB rating.

I am asking for his number of redzone touchdowns he has in relation to the number of redzone trips.

What % of time does Alex throw a touchdown when in the redzone?

What % of plays does Alex actually throw the ball in the redzone?

The only reason I am asking these is because I have a sneaky suspicion that his %s are AWFUL in relation to other QBs in the league. I ask this because I feel like his low TD% and low interceptions are largely due to his lack of actually attempting passes.

My hypothesis is that his good RZQBR and lack of RZINT over his career are directly correlated to how he has a good QBR and low INTs this year. My hypothesis is that Alex limited his mistakes in the redzone by not taking chances, much like our coaches have told him to do on the entire field this year.

Can someone prove my hypothesis to be correct or incorrect? Or will this post just be ignored for the 5th time on NT?

No publication has done an analysis of these stats for any player at all.
Braylon Edwards just looks like he does not want to be out there. Really bizzare because he took less money to come to San Fran and came here essentially on a 1yr $1mill deal. His NFL career does not look good right now. He will have to play under a similar contract somewhere next year (I seriously doubt it will be here).
Originally posted by 12b6demurrer:
Originally posted by 80sbaby24:
I have asked this in multiple threads and have not gotten a single answer.

Does ANYONE have Alex's redzone statistics prior to this year?

NO, I am not asking for his interception numbers.

NO, I am not asking for his QB rating.

I am asking for his number of redzone touchdowns he has in relation to the number of redzone trips.

What % of time does Alex throw a touchdown when in the redzone?

What % of plays does Alex actually throw the ball in the redzone?

The only reason I am asking these is because I have a sneaky suspicion that his %s are AWFUL in relation to other QBs in the league. I ask this because I feel like his low TD% and low interceptions are largely due to his lack of actually attempting passes.

My hypothesis is that his good RZQBR and lack of RZINT over his career are directly correlated to how he has a good QBR and low INTs this year. My hypothesis is that Alex limited his mistakes in the redzone by not taking chances, much like our coaches have told him to do on the entire field this year.

Can someone prove my hypothesis to be correct or incorrect? Or will this post just be ignored for the 5th time on NT?

No publication has done an analysis of these stats for any player at all.

Seriously? No one has documented the amount of times we have been in the redzone with Alex as our QB? No one has documented the amount of redzone TDs that Alex has?

I find that incredibly hard to believe. Not saying you are lying. Just saying they have to be out there somewhere.
Originally posted by 80sbaby24:
Originally posted by 12b6demurrer:
Originally posted by 80sbaby24:
I have asked this in multiple threads and have not gotten a single answer.

Does ANYONE have Alex's redzone statistics prior to this year?

NO, I am not asking for his interception numbers.

NO, I am not asking for his QB rating.

I am asking for his number of redzone touchdowns he has in relation to the number of redzone trips.

What % of time does Alex throw a touchdown when in the redzone?

What % of plays does Alex actually throw the ball in the redzone?

The only reason I am asking these is because I have a sneaky suspicion that his %s are AWFUL in relation to other QBs in the league. I ask this because I feel like his low TD% and low interceptions are largely due to his lack of actually attempting passes.

My hypothesis is that his good RZQBR and lack of RZINT over his career are directly correlated to how he has a good QBR and low INTs this year. My hypothesis is that Alex limited his mistakes in the redzone by not taking chances, much like our coaches have told him to do on the entire field this year.

Can someone prove my hypothesis to be correct or incorrect? Or will this post just be ignored for the 5th time on NT?

No publication has done an analysis of these stats for any player at all.

Seriously? No one has documented the amount of times we have been in the redzone with Alex as our QB? No one has documented the amount of redzone TDs that Alex has?

I find that incredibly hard to believe. Not saying you are lying. Just saying they have to be out there somewhere.

Email MM or MB or one of the other beat writers I bet they can find the info.
That requires a s**tload of work for any player.

For one, you're asking some underpaid beat writer who probably doesn't have a degree in statistics to rewatch every game that Alex Smith appeared in since 2005, count every passing play versus running play, count the number of TDs versus incompletions taking into account drops. Then you have to do it for every other QB out there?
You would think that ESPN or something would do that, but sports networks only produce statistics for specific talking points during the game. They don't tally s**t up for convenience sake.

You'd have to look at some 3rd party website, which probably hasn't done it yet.
Their purposely playing possom in the red zone, its the only logical explanation, Alex has always been top notch in the end zone, now he magically sucks...with a great offensive head coach? Yeah right
Jeff Garcia on 95.7 right now. He says a big reason for the 49ers' redzone woes is the fact that we don't have a guy we can go to consistently on the outside. Vernon Davis can be the inside guy, but we don't have an outside guy.
Originally posted by defenderDX:
Originally posted by Young2Rice:
Originally posted by defenderDX:
It's not just all Alex, I want to know WHY we have receivers like Ginn and Braylon in our redzone packages and not Crabs or Williams... Alex and Braylon just cannot if their life depended on it connect on those damn back shoulder throws whatsoever..... And the ball is never thrown inside the endzone, always outside to the sideline. If we've learned anything from Alex THIS season it's that his accuracy seems to be a lot better when thrown in the middle of the field, deep middle, or to crossing routes. Not understanding the play-calling/personnel groupings at all when it comes to inside the 20....

Of course its not just Alex. But he is the QB and has a big hand in the woes.

Alex rarely uses the back shoulder throw,. I've seen it a handfull of times this year. This requires accuracy and confidence in your abilities and confidence in your WRs. Alex has none of these attributes.

The ball is never thrown inside because we have a scared QB. There are always routes in the middle like crab slants on short crossing patterns. Alex doesn't pull the trigger and chooses the safe sideline throws. This is true even when not in the endzone. He RARELY throws the ball deep middle of the field, effectivly giving up opportunity to make big plays. This is evident as we barelty have any big gains pasing. In fact, we have bigger total gains in the run, which is sad.

The play calling is handcuffed with a guy who is to afraid to pull the trigger.

Not at all. I don't believe that nonsense that he is "scared" one bit. Why was it he was one of the most efficient Qb's in the redzone the past 2 seasons and not this one? Obviously it's because of the playcalling and personnel we have in that area. And to cap it off obviously sub-par execution. Those throws to the sideline are "designed" plays. Alex see's before the ball is snapped Braylon is in man with the CB opposing him and goes to him immediately. I have said Alex does not have good sideline accuracy, and this backs it up. He is more accurate when throwing to crossing routes and deep routes down the middle then anything down the sideline. Crabs and Williams were HARDLY utilized this last game in the redzone and instead Ginn and BYraylon were used which is BS.

All the niners should practice this week is nothing but redzone offense IMO. And Alex SERIOUSLY needs to take more/extra reps with Braylon.

Thats the only explanation on why he doesn't fire balls in the middle of the redzone like other QBs regularly do. And his "great Red zone rating" is a result of minimilazing ints and checking the ball down....cause he's scared. You can put up great red zone numbers if you have little opprtunities and don't take chances

This year this problem is exemplified because we are in a playoff position race and we are in the redzone way more often.

You are right in that his sideline accuracy is worse then his middle passes. Too bad he sticks to the sidelines on majority of the throws because those are safe.
Originally posted by 12b6demurrer:
Jeff Garcia on 95.7 right now. He says a big reason for the 49ers' redzone woes is the fact that we don't have a guy we can go to consistently on the outside. Vernon Davis can be the inside guy, but we don't have an outside guy.

We hardly use Vernon as the inside guy or anyone for that matter. That's part of the problem.
The sloppiness of it all is dissapointing. There are guys on this team that seem like they are looking around expecting someone elee to make the big plays to keep them in games. WRs, RBs, TEs - nobody seems to have hands on this team. Then you see Fitzgerald completely take over the game on the other side...nauseating.
Originally posted by Young2Rice:
Originally posted by defenderDX:
Originally posted by Young2Rice:
Originally posted by defenderDX:
It's not just all Alex, I want to know WHY we have receivers like Ginn and Braylon in our redzone packages and not Crabs or Williams... Alex and Braylon just cannot if their life depended on it connect on those damn back shoulder throws whatsoever..... And the ball is never thrown inside the endzone, always outside to the sideline. If we've learned anything from Alex THIS season it's that his accuracy seems to be a lot better when thrown in the middle of the field, deep middle, or to crossing routes. Not understanding the play-calling/personnel groupings at all when it comes to inside the 20....

Of course its not just Alex. But he is the QB and has a big hand in the woes.

Alex rarely uses the back shoulder throw,. I've seen it a handfull of times this year. This requires accuracy and confidence in your abilities and confidence in your WRs. Alex has none of these attributes.

The ball is never thrown inside because we have a scared QB. There are always routes in the middle like crab slants on short crossing patterns. Alex doesn't pull the trigger and chooses the safe sideline throws. This is true even when not in the endzone. He RARELY throws the ball deep middle of the field, effectivly giving up opportunity to make big plays. This is evident as we barelty have any big gains pasing. In fact, we have bigger total gains in the run, which is sad.

The play calling is handcuffed with a guy who is to afraid to pull the trigger.

Not at all. I don't believe that nonsense that he is "scared" one bit. Why was it he was one of the most efficient Qb's in the redzone the past 2 seasons and not this one? Obviously it's because of the playcalling and personnel we have in that area. And to cap it off obviously sub-par execution. Those throws to the sideline are "designed" plays. Alex see's before the ball is snapped Braylon is in man with the CB opposing him and goes to him immediately. I have said Alex does not have good sideline accuracy, and this backs it up. He is more accurate when throwing to crossing routes and deep routes down the middle then anything down the sideline. Crabs and Williams were HARDLY utilized this last game in the redzone and instead Ginn and BYraylon were used which is BS.

All the niners should practice this week is nothing but redzone offense IMO. And Alex SERIOUSLY needs to take more/extra reps with Braylon.

Thats the only explanation on why he doesn't fire balls in the middle of the redzone like other QBs regularly do. And his "great Red zone rating" is a result of minimilazing ints and checking the ball down....cause he's scared. You can put up great red zone numbers if you have little opprtunities and don't take chances

This year this problem is exemplified because we are in a playoff position race and we are in the redzone way more often.

You are right in that his sideline accuracy is worse then his middle passes. Too bad he sticks to the sidelines on majority of the throws because those are safe.

Again, I will continue to disagree with the he's "scared" argument. I think he is limited for better terms. He had 35 TD's and only 1 INT in the redzone coming into this year. That's not scared, it's playing smart. Whether it's bad chemistry, "limited" or, "scared" pass play-calls, OR ineffective personnel, saying the reason why we are ineffective in the redzone because Alex is scared is laughable.

And I never said his sideline accuracy is "worse" than his middle passes. You said that. I said he is more accurate when throwing to intermediate passes in the middle of the field. He has relatively good accuracy there. We saw more passes in the middle of the endzone last year and the year before than this year. It's not Alex 'playing it safe' and throwing to the sideline, it's designed play-calling. In terms of the redzone..
[ Edited by defenderDX on Dec 12, 2011 at 1:27 PM ]
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