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Once upon a time there was a gun slinger

Originally posted by ninermedic:
But the Patriots haven't been to a Superbowl since Brady had his big breakout in '07, and they lost that year. They haven't actually won since 2004 IIRC. True one of those season Brady was hurt but I still think it's interesting that there are 0 SB rings since Tom Brady moved from "clutch with average stats" to "fantasy football demigod"

One might also argue, the Patriots haven't won a SB since Spy Gate.

The real issue I think is with all the big number QB's is their Defenses usually are not that good. Causing a lot of catch up.
Originally posted by verb1der:
Originally posted by captveg:
Originally posted by verb1der:
Originally posted by susweel:
Originally posted by verb1der:
But today's NFL has evolved, and Tom Brady's stats, and rings prove it.

and Aaron Rodgers

and Drew Brees, and Rothlisberger...

Except 4 of those 7 rings were won before they were gunslingers (Brady & Roethlisberger in 2001, 2003-2005). Their numbers for those seasons are lower than Montana's in '84.

Perhaps that was the transition period. Because now you have Drew Brees and Aaron Rodgers who blow up the stat sheets and further validate the evolution of the passing game, and it will continue even this year.

While it's true that we've had a run of 3 straight passing centric offenses win championships (Pittsburgh '08, New Orleans '09, Green Bay '10), 3 years (and possibly a 4th if Green Bay repeats) is not enough to declair the previous 20 years of varied styles winning championships void. The Cowboys won titles in 1992-1993 and 1995 with Aikman playing in "game manager" mode, yet the trend eventually changed. Things can change again, and history shows that eventually the other teams catch up and/or adapt and things cycle the other way for a while (see the late 90s/early 00s as defenses adapted to the West Coast offense of the 80s / early 90s).
Originally posted by captveg:
Originally posted by verb1der:
Originally posted by captveg:
Originally posted by verb1der:
Originally posted by susweel:
Originally posted by verb1der:
But today's NFL has evolved, and Tom Brady's stats, and rings prove it.

and Aaron Rodgers

and Drew Brees, and Rothlisberger...

Except 4 of those 7 rings were won before they were gunslingers (Brady & Roethlisberger in 2001, 2003-2005). Their numbers for those seasons are lower than Montana's in '84.

Perhaps that was the transition period. Because now you have Drew Brees and Aaron Rodgers who blow up the stat sheets and further validate the evolution of the passing game, and it will continue even this year.

While it's true that we've had a run of 3 straight passing centric offenses win championships (Pittsburgh '08, New Orleans '09, Green Bay '10), 3 years (and possibly a 4th if Green Bay repeats) is not enough to declair the previous 20 years of varied styles winning championships void. The Cowboys won titles in 1992-1993 and 1995 with Aikman playing in "game manager" mode, yet the trend eventually changed. Things can change again, and history shows that eventually the other teams catch up and/or adapt and things cycle the other way for a while (see the late 90s/early 00s as defenses adapted to the West Coast offense of the 80s / early 90s).

Yeah the trend may change, but right now the NFL has adapted to a mentality that "offense wins championships", that why we see an influx of rookie QBs like Ryan, Stafford, Newton, Dalton, etc, make immediate impacts because offenses have now evolved to a more college like spread system.

Hence, there are no more teams that run true WCO as seen during the 80s and 90s.

The game has truly changed, and everyone has to find a way to keep up with Aaron Rodgers.
[ Edited by verb1der on Nov 15, 2011 at 4:56 PM ]
Originally posted by susweel:
and Aaron Rodgers

He doesnt have ring(s) as a plural just yet.
Originally posted by prime21:
Originally posted by susweel:
and Aaron Rodgers

He doesnt have ring(s) as a plural just yet.

He will
Originally posted by verb1der:
Originally posted by captveg:
Originally posted by verb1der:
Originally posted by captveg:
Originally posted by verb1der:
Originally posted by susweel:
Originally posted by verb1der:
But today's NFL has evolved, and Tom Brady's stats, and rings prove it.

and Aaron Rodgers

and Drew Brees, and Rothlisberger...

Except 4 of those 7 rings were won before they were gunslingers (Brady & Roethlisberger in 2001, 2003-2005). Their numbers for those seasons are lower than Montana's in '84.

Perhaps that was the transition period. Because now you have Drew Brees and Aaron Rodgers who blow up the stat sheets and further validate the evolution of the passing game, and it will continue even this year.

While it's true that we've had a run of 3 straight passing centric offenses win championships (Pittsburgh '08, New Orleans '09, Green Bay '10), 3 years (and possibly a 4th if Green Bay repeats) is not enough to declair the previous 20 years of varied styles winning championships void. The Cowboys won titles in 1992-1993 and 1995 with Aikman playing in "game manager" mode, yet the trend eventually changed. Things can change again, and history shows that eventually the other teams catch up and/or adapt and things cycle the other way for a while (see the late 90s/early 00s as defenses adapted to the West Coast offense of the 80s / early 90s).

Yeah the trend may change, but right now the NFL has adapted to a mentality that "offense wins championships", that why we see an influx of rookie QBs like Ryan, Stafford, Newton, Dalton, etc, make immediate impacts because offenses have now evolved to a more college like spread system.

Hence, there are no more teams that run true WCO as seen during the 80s and 90s.

The game has truly changed, and everyone has to find a way to keep up with Aaron Rodgers.

Well, the key is being the team that initiates the change. Harbaugh fits that role pretty well, potentially.
Originally posted by susweel:
Originally posted by prime21:
Originally posted by susweel:
and Aaron Rodgers

He doesnt have ring(s) as a plural just yet.

He will
touche
Originally posted by captveg:
Originally posted by verb1der:
Originally posted by captveg:
Originally posted by verb1der:
Originally posted by captveg:
Originally posted by verb1der:
Originally posted by susweel:
Originally posted by verb1der:
But today's NFL has evolved, and Tom Brady's stats, and rings prove it.

and Aaron Rodgers

and Drew Brees, and Rothlisberger...

Except 4 of those 7 rings were won before they were gunslingers (Brady & Roethlisberger in 2001, 2003-2005). Their numbers for those seasons are lower than Montana's in '84.

Perhaps that was the transition period. Because now you have Drew Brees and Aaron Rodgers who blow up the stat sheets and further validate the evolution of the passing game, and it will continue even this year.

While it's true that we've had a run of 3 straight passing centric offenses win championships (Pittsburgh '08, New Orleans '09, Green Bay '10), 3 years (and possibly a 4th if Green Bay repeats) is not enough to declair the previous 20 years of varied styles winning championships void. The Cowboys won titles in 1992-1993 and 1995 with Aikman playing in "game manager" mode, yet the trend eventually changed. Things can change again, and history shows that eventually the other teams catch up and/or adapt and things cycle the other way for a while (see the late 90s/early 00s as defenses adapted to the West Coast offense of the 80s / early 90s).

Yeah the trend may change, but right now the NFL has adapted to a mentality that "offense wins championships", that why we see an influx of rookie QBs like Ryan, Stafford, Newton, Dalton, etc, make immediate impacts because offenses have now evolved to a more college like spread system.

Hence, there are no more teams that run true WCO as seen during the 80s and 90s.

The game has truly changed, and everyone has to find a way to keep up with Aaron Rodgers.

Well, the key is being the team that initiates the change. Harbaugh fits that role pretty well, potentially.

I agree! And seriously hope so!

If you think about it, the best defense is a controlling offense, which is exactly what the 49ers are great at, ball control, which quite possibly may be the only way to stop Aaron Rodgers, is by keeping him off the field and limiting his opportunities.
Originally posted by susweel:
Originally posted by prime21:
Originally posted by susweel:
and Aaron Rodgers

He doesnt have ring(s) as a plural just yet.

He will

slurp slurp slurp
Originally posted by a24hrdad:
Originally posted by ninermedic:
But the Patriots haven't been to a Superbowl since Brady had his big breakout in '07, and they lost that year. They haven't actually won since 2004 IIRC. True one of those season Brady was hurt but I still think it's interesting that there are 0 SB rings since Tom Brady moved from "clutch with average stats" to "fantasy football demigod"

One might also argue, the Patriots haven't won a SB since Spy Gate.

The real issue I think is with all the big number QB's is their Defenses usually are not that good. Causing a lot of catch up.

Last 10 superbowls:

2001.... Ravens win the superbowl with Trent f*cking Dilfer
2002.... Greatest show on turf loses to upstart Tom Brady's game management skills.
2003.... #1 offense (raiders) in the nfl loses to the #1 defense (buccs) in the NFL
2004.... the 17th ranked offense (pats) & 7th ranked defense beats the 18th ranks offense & 8th ranked defense (panthers)
2005.... Peyton Manning breaks the all time TD record, eliminated by the pats (who is top 10 in O & D this year). Indy D is ranked 29th
2006.... (the anomily and you can blame Rex Grossman for that) Indy 3rd in O, 21st in D, beats Bears, 15th ranked O and 5th ranked D
2007.... Probably the best offense ever fielded (Patriots) upset by the Giants. Why? NY had he best front 4 in the game and Eli stopped making mistakes.
2008.... Steelers 22ND in offense and 1st in defense, beats the Cards who are 4th in offense, and 22nd in defense.
2009.... Saints vs Colts. In a game vs two offensive powerhouses. the plays of the game were a surprise onside kick, and a defensive TD.
2010.... Offense makes the difference in this game. But two top ten defenses make their way in, with the Steelers D carrying in a middle of the road ranked offense.
Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Laces out DAN !!!!!!!!!!!

HE FOUND CAPTAIN WINKIE!!!!!
Originally posted by AXEGRINDER:
Originally posted by susweel:
Originally posted by prime21:
Originally posted by susweel:
and Aaron Rodgers

He doesnt have ring(s) as a plural just yet.

He will

slurp slurp slurp


he may want to watch this

We had a top 10 passing offense practically every year with Montana so it's not like our passing attack was chopped liver.

I do agree that that the more complete tends to win in playoff games, though. Green Bay had a top 5 defense last year. New Orleans had a beastly rushing attack and a defense that created turnovers in 09. It's not just the quarterback winning games.

I like our chances against anyone I just don't look past Green Bay's defense. They've struggled but it's same team they had last year and they're more than capable of playing us in a tight game.
Originally posted by SealTeam6:
named Dan Marino and his numbers were as follows
Comp362 attempts 564 % 64.2 yrds5,084 avg9.0 TD48 int17 108.9


And there was another guy named Joe who liked to manage games and his numbers were as follows
comp279 attempts 432 % 64.6 yrds 3,630 avg 8.4 TD 28 int 10 102.9;

in the end, Dan and the the experts learned big stats dont win Super Bowls


Nice.
my whole $.02 on the whole passing team trend...

offense usually has the advantage because they know what they're going to do. however in a passing offense, the offensive line is actually in defensive mode and D-Line is the one doing the attacking (as opposed to vice-versa in the run game). that said, games are won and lost at the LOS.