Is David Akers the best kicker we ever had?

Originally posted by JiksJuicy:
I was going to fix this, but I was referring to popular consensus, not you personally. I understand where you thought I was jumping you. You were saying I don't expect the Niner fan base to circle around him. And I was saying it's not the fact that Alex sucks he didn't get a big contract, it's the fact that he's unproven. To not like Alex and not support the QB for your team, because of a 3 year contract, 1 year option or what ever, doesn't make sense. But that convo's been had many of time I guess.

Fair enough. I do that too.

Personally I would have actually preferred if we did take care of Alex this year. I think it's inevitable. He could actually make alot more bank this way because we are going to have lock him up in the next 2 years and I do think he's going to progress and possibly even add a ring before his next contract.

The reason this stuff matters is it's hard to get behind someone when the organization is constantly pulling or teasing to pull the rug out from behind. Ultimately speaking I'm a Niner fan not an Alex Smith fan.

I don't know why this bugs me, but just what was so implausible about Harbaugh's comments on Manning? Follow me now . . . sorry this runs a bit long

Who contacted who?

1. Jim Trotter of SI reported during that week that "The owner of one 2011 playoff team told SI that while his club was not pursuing Manning, it would seriously consider signing him (pending a positive medical report) if he phoned and said he wanted to play for them."
2. Matt Barrows wrote a Manning aftermath article on 3/20 in which he reported specifically that Manning "approached" the 49ers.

http://blog.sfgate.com/49ers/2012/03/16/report-49ers-enter-pursuit-of-peyton-manning/

http://www.sacbee.com/2012/03/20/v-print/4350977/sdfd-fdgf-gfdgf-hghgfggfghjkfhgfjkhgfjkghdfjkgf.html


When looking at the 2011 playoff teams needing a QB it seems pretty obvious that the owner Trotter referenced was Jed York. The delicate dance was due to Condon's involvement. So, Manning called us, and we were going seriously consider signing him if everything checked out. So then what?



What do we actually know?

1. On the Tuesday that was the first day of free agency (when everyone was looking the other way) Harbaugh and Roman flew to Duke and clandestinely observed Manning work-out.
2. The 49ers dispatched their doctors back east to examine Manning.

This part sounds purely like an evaluation to me.


What was different about the 49ers involvement?

1. News of the 49ers involvement didn't surface until three days after they checked him out physically.
2. Of the final three "contenders", Santa Clara was the only place Manning didn't visit.
3. Manning reached out to the 49ers and not vice versa.

The 49ers didn't pursue Manning like b***hes in heat like the Broncos, Titans, Dolphins, Jets, Chiefs, Seahawks and Cardinals, etc. I think a lot of this had to do again with the Smith/Manning/Condon angle. It was in the 49ers interest to keep this quiet as to avoid any possibility of alienating the locker room and Alex (even though when Peyton Manning calls you listen), but the fact remains that Alex has been through many battles with these guys and most of them are intensely loyal. Condon also had an interest in keeping it low profile to avoid the perception among NFL players that he'd actively leverage two clients against the same team.


How does all this tie together?

First, the question of who initiated contact is fundamental. The 49ers received a call and had to take a look . . . they had to. What we don't know is what happened between the time we worked him out and the time Manning made his decision. If the 49ers were going to "seriously consider signing him" you'd have to assume (although it's never been reported) that there were general discussions on the parameters of how everything would work on the football side. The dance very well could have ended or cooled at this point for whatever reason.


What I think happened

We got the call we evaulauted.

We discussed the X's & O's parameters of the possible signing over the next day or two and neither side could get comfortable feeling, whether it was the style of offense, the play calling or even the prospect of Alex Smith still being on the roster. The "pursuit" effectively ended there.

Manning knew before the weekend that he wasn't coming to the 49ers which allowed Condon to finally leak our involvement on Friday in an effort to play Denver and Tennessee against each other over the weekend.

Knowing Manning wasn't coming here, Condon tried to make Baalke squirm over St. Patricks day weekend by sending Alex to Miami for a visit. Trent didn't curr. Bluff failed. Alex re-signs for virtually the same contract we offered him in February.


Bottom Line

The front office evaluated and examined only after being prompted by interest from Manning and the level of actual "pursuit" was very questionable. In the end it's still a bit of a semantics argument and Harbaugh's comments last week were still directed for the benefit of Alex and the team. But when you break it down it's clear that Harbaugh's strident denial of "pursuit" was more justified than anyone slamming him for lying is willing to concede.

⬆ Good breakdown. Can't believe GM all the time, but Baalke went on radio before the Manning blowout happened, and he pretty much said they weren't talking Manning within the organization. So the idea that Manning contacted the Niners makes sense.

The only people that think Harbaugh out right lied to them/media are the ones that wanted the FO to signed Manning more badly than Baalke/Harbaugh/York. In the end we are talking about the degree of interest. That can only be answered by the people who were involved. Now that Harbaugh came out to explained the degree of interest at the time, no one believes him LOL!

Originally posted by SonocoNinerFan:
I don't know why this bugs me, but just what was so implausible about Harbaugh's comments on Manning? Follow me now . . . sorry this runs a bit long

Who contacted who?

1. Jim Trotter of SI reported during that week that "The owner of one 2011 playoff team told SI that while his club was not pursuing Manning, it would seriously consider signing him (pending a positive medical report) if he phoned and said he wanted to play for them."
2. Matt Barrows wrote a Manning aftermath article on 3/20 in which he reported specifically that Manning "approached" the 49ers.

http://blog.sfgate.com/49ers/2012/03/16/report-49ers-enter-pursuit-of-peyton-manning/

http://www.sacbee.com/2012/03/20/v-print/4350977/sdfd-fdgf-gfdgf-hghgfggfghjkfhgfjkhgfjkghdfjkgf.html


When looking at the 2011 playoff teams needing a QB it seems pretty obvious that the owner Trotter referenced was Jed York. The delicate dance was due to Condon's involvement. So, Manning called us, and we were going seriously consider signing him if everything checked out. So then what?



What do we actually know?

1. On the Tuesday that was the first day of free agency (when everyone was looking the other way) Harbaugh and Roman flew to Duke and clandestinely observed Manning work-out.
2. The 49ers dispatched their doctors back east to examine Manning.

This part sounds purely like an evaluation to me.


What was different about the 49ers involvement?

1. News of the 49ers involvement didn't surface until three days after they checked him out physically.
2. Of the final three "contenders", Santa Clara was the only place Manning didn't visit.
3. Manning reached out to the 49ers and not vice versa.

The 49ers didn't pursue Manning like b***hes in heat like the Broncos, Titans, Dolphins, Jets, Chiefs, Seahawks and Cardinals, etc. I think a lot of this had to do again with the Smith/Manning/Condon angle. It was in the 49ers interest to keep this quiet as to avoid any possibility of alienating the locker room and Alex (even though when Peyton Manning calls you listen), but the fact remains that Alex has been through many battles with these guys and most of them are intensely loyal. Condon also had an interest in keeping it low profile to avoid the perception among NFL players that he'd actively leverage two clients against the same team.


How does all this tie together?

First, the question of who initiated contact is fundamental. The 49ers received a call and had to take a look . . . they had to. What we don't know is what happened between the time we worked him out and the time Manning made his decision. If the 49ers were going to "seriously consider signing him" you'd have to assume (although it's never been reported) that there were general discussions on the parameters of how everything would work on the football side. The dance very well could have ended or cooled at this point for whatever reason.


What I think happened

We got the call we evaulauted.

We discussed the X's & O's parameters of the possible signing over the next day or two and neither side could get comfortable feeling, whether it was the style of offense, the play calling or even the prospect of Alex Smith still being on the roster. The "pursuit" effectively ended there.

Manning knew before the weekend that he wasn't coming to the 49ers which allowed Condon to finally leak our involvement on Friday in an effort to play Denver and Tennessee against each other over the weekend.

Knowing Manning wasn't coming here, Condon tried to make Baalke squirm over St. Patricks day weekend by sending Alex to Miami for a visit. Trent didn't curr. Bluff failed. Alex re-signs for virtually the same contract we offered him in February.


Bottom Line

The front office evaluated and examined only after being prompted by interest from Manning and the level of actual "pursuit" was very questionable. In the end it's still a bit of a semantics argument and Harbaugh's comments last week were still directed for the benefit of Alex and the team. But when you break it down it's clear that Harbaugh's strident denial of "pursuit" was more justified than anyone slamming him for lying is willing to concede.

That's a fairly good explaination but there are severe problems of just entertaining the thought of Peyton Manning especially when you know your interest isn't at the levels of other teams. We didn't have to take that phone call. It's also pretty ridiculous to think there was a prospect of Smith and Manning playing together. It's one or the other and when you entertain the phone call from Manning you're doing at the expense of knowing that Alex wouldn't be a Niner.

I do understand why we'd take that phone call. If Manning is calling us that could be an indication that he's willing to make some concessions to play for us but that is something you have to get from his agent before you run the risk of alienating your current guy.

We should be lucky that we have a level headed quarterback because there are plenty of qbs that would have bolted under this scenario.

Originally posted by SonocoNinerFan:
I don't know why this bugs me, but just what was so implausible about Harbaugh's comments on Manning? Follow me now . . . sorry this runs a bit long

Who contacted who?

1. Jim Trotter of SI reported during that week that "The owner of one 2011 playoff team told SI that while his club was not pursuing Manning, it would seriously consider signing him (pending a positive medical report) if he phoned and said he wanted to play for them."
2. Matt Barrows wrote a Manning aftermath article on 3/20 in which he reported specifically that Manning "approached" the 49ers.

http://blog.sfgate.com/49ers/2012/03/16/report-49ers-enter-pursuit-of-peyton-manning/

http://www.sacbee.com/2012/03/20/v-print/4350977/sdfd-fdgf-gfdgf-hghgfggfghjkfhgfjkhgfjkghdfjkgf.html


When looking at the 2011 playoff teams needing a QB it seems pretty obvious that the owner Trotter referenced was Jed York. The delicate dance was due to Condon's involvement. So, Manning called us, and we were going seriously consider signing him if everything checked out. So then what?



What do we actually know?

1. On the Tuesday that was the first day of free agency (when everyone was looking the other way) Harbaugh and Roman flew to Duke and clandestinely observed Manning work-out.
2. The 49ers dispatched their doctors back east to examine Manning.

This part sounds purely like an evaluation to me.


What was different about the 49ers involvement?

1. News of the 49ers involvement didn't surface until three days after they checked him out physically.
2. Of the final three "contenders", Santa Clara was the only place Manning didn't visit.
3. Manning reached out to the 49ers and not vice versa.

The 49ers didn't pursue Manning like b***hes in heat like the Broncos, Titans, Dolphins, Jets, Chiefs, Seahawks and Cardinals, etc. I think a lot of this had to do again with the Smith/Manning/Condon angle. It was in the 49ers interest to keep this quiet as to avoid any possibility of alienating the locker room and Alex (even though when Peyton Manning calls you listen), but the fact remains that Alex has been through many battles with these guys and most of them are intensely loyal. Condon also had an interest in keeping it low profile to avoid the perception among NFL players that he'd actively leverage two clients against the same team.


How does all this tie together?

First, the question of who initiated contact is fundamental. The 49ers received a call and had to take a look . . . they had to. What we don't know is what happened between the time we worked him out and the time Manning made his decision. If the 49ers were going to "seriously consider signing him" you'd have to assume (although it's never been reported) that there were general discussions on the parameters of how everything would work on the football side. The dance very well could have ended or cooled at this point for whatever reason.


What I think happened

We got the call we evaulauted.

We discussed the X's & O's parameters of the possible signing over the next day or two and neither side could get comfortable feeling, whether it was the style of offense, the play calling or even the prospect of Alex Smith still being on the roster. The "pursuit" effectively ended there.

Manning knew before the weekend that he wasn't coming to the 49ers which allowed Condon to finally leak our involvement on Friday in an effort to play Denver and Tennessee against each other over the weekend.

Knowing Manning wasn't coming here, Condon tried to make Baalke squirm over St. Patricks day weekend by sending Alex to Miami for a visit. Trent didn't curr. Bluff failed. Alex re-signs for virtually the same contract we offered him in February.


Bottom Line

The front office evaluated and examined only after being prompted by interest from Manning and the level of actual "pursuit" was very questionable. In the end it's still a bit of a semantics argument and Harbaugh's comments last week were still directed for the benefit of Alex and the team. But when you break it down it's clear that Harbaugh's strident denial of "pursuit" was more justified than anyone slamming him for lying is willing to concede.

Nice post.

Edit: Also kind of off topic but on at the same time, when Alex said "i would relish the opportunity to compete with Manning for the starting role." Harbaugh said Alex would be a competing for the starting job regardless, so I don't neccessarily know if he was lying about that either. As you said they took a look, did their due dilligence, and decided not to "pursue" Manning.(horrible spelling I know)

Originally posted by JiksJuicy:
Nice post.

Edit: Also kind of off topic but on at the same time, when Alex said "i would relish the opportunity to compete with Manning for the starting role." Harbaugh said Alex would be a competing for the starting job regardless, so I don't neccessarily know if he was lying about that either. As you said they took a look, did their due dilligence, and decided not to "pursue" Manning.(horrible spelling I know)

Been thinking about that situation too. Talking about coldblooded. If they had signed both Manning and Smith. They compete in OTA and TC. Good possibility Manning gets the job. The FO trade away Smith Smith is totally screwed because now he doesn't have a say in which team he can go to.

Originally posted by JiksJuicy:
Nice post.

Edit: Also kind of off topic but on at the same time, when Alex said "i would relish the opportunity to compete with Manning for the starting role." Harbaugh said Alex would be a competing for the starting job regardless, so I don't neccessarily know if he was lying about that either. As you said they took a look, did their due dilligence, and decided not to "pursue" Manning.(horrible spelling I know)

He said that after he signed with us and Manning picked Denver.

If this is indeed true I could see how Manning's visit with us went.

Harbaugh: Yeah man you want to play for free and compete with Alex.

Manning: Why did you show up?

I'd have to say the 9ers were certainly interested AT THE RIGHT PRICE. In other words, if the workout was just okay, and other teams were going to make affordable offers, then they'd be in to hunt. But when the offers went high, Peyton didn't even make a visit. So in a sense it was both due diligence and sincere interest, but at the right price.

Niners might have been interested until the numbers started to get tossed around. I don't think the Niners brass could see breaking the bank for a player in the shape Manning is in. Bottom line 96 million would have broken the bank for a qb that is more interested in a final payday than being a contender.

Best case scenario:

Manning signs an incentive laced contract allowing the 9ers to keep defense intact. Smith signs to compete/backup/replace if injury occurs.

Worst case scenario:

Manning signs with Denver, Smith signs with Miami and CK/Johnson compete as starters.


Neither of these happened so we can be thankful our front office is not crazy but is willing to at least examine every possibility. The rest is guesswork.

Who gives a f**k.

Originally posted by pelos21:
Who gives a f**k.

LOL...evidently quite a few of us! For some unknown reason. Off season?

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by pelos21:

Who gives a f**k.

LOL...evidently quite a few of us! For some unknown reason. Off season?

Lol I would agree. I'm just tired of the media bashing Harbaugh.

How can the media bash our HC for doing his job...ie, talking with Manning once he indicated interest in playing for a bonafide SB contender. Was Harbaugh supposed to say "no" to manning in response to "I'm interested in what the 49ers and I can do .Could we set up a time to sit down and see what both the 49ers and I each want? " How in the world is a HC doing his job with the best interest of his team in mind if he says "NO". Man, guys, the media are a bunch of jakcasses for making a big intrigue about this. Coach did this as unobtrusively as he and baalke could, but obviously their trip East was noted. There was no intrigue that the media suggests. Just a HC and GM, both voted best in their trades last yr, doing there jobs. That's it.

When peyton put his cards on the table, it was apparent that the dance tickets didn't match. Coach and GM correctly had no intention of destroying the incredible job of maintaining a team with the best quality at the best prices, across the board..and no way was Coach H going to give Peyton control of the Offense. This was a dead duck from the gitgo, but nobody in their right mind would have told peyton, "nope, we don't want to sit down and listen to what you have to offer". Coach and GM did their jobs, and came to the appropriate conclusion...the only conclusion. Had Peyton really wanted a run at another ring, he could have said , "sure I'll play for $8mil/yr and I don't need to control the O"...but we all know he didn't say that. Denver, as history will record, thot that was a sterling idea...It wasn't .
End of story. Alex returns home once Peyton announces he'll sign with denver, and signs his contract which has been sitting on the table the entire time.

Where in the world is the drama in that. Of course the media made an entire desperate saga out of it...and then accused Coach of lying...when he is not obligated nor should he tell us or the media how he and baalke actually evaluated peyton...nor anyone else for that matter. That is not our nor their business. Screw the media, lying c$$$&&&kers.

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:

Where in the world is the drama in that.

For us to even entertain any interest in Manning, it must mean Alex is teh suxxorz. And since we missed out on our desperate attempts to bring in a good QB for a change, Jim is full of BS only because Alex was found sniveling and weeping in the corner. We all know how weak-minded he is and know he desperately needs Jim to pump up his fragile ego.