This article has it backwards!

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by Memphis9er:

Originally posted by dj43:
The biggest problem, and it isn't even close, is continued poor play of the OL.

That having been said, as to the matter of running game versus passing game, I'll skip the Alex vs Frank portion of it and go to another area that is more of an issue than many seem to recognize: Receivers with speed.

Several articles are out talking about the speed of the Eagle receivers. They are fast. VERY fast. And they cause problems for everyone, and they will likely cause problems for the 49er secondary on Sunday.

In contrast, the 49er receiving corp has been focused on being sturdy blockers for a power running game rather than speedy receivers who can get open. While the Eagles were picking DeSean Jackson and Jeremy Maclin, the 49er grabbed guys like Arnaz Battle and Joshua Morgan, two guys who block well but do not scare any secondary in the league. Michael Crabtree was highly touted for his college exploits but he has only average speed for an NFL wideout. Ted Ginn has speed but due to his receiving deficiencies he is useful only as a returner. He's exciting in that role but no one fears him the way they fear Maclin and Jackson. Vernon Davis has great speed for a TE but due to the problems with the OL he spends far too much time blocking for the only guy on the team with speed anyone would worry about, which takes us back to the OL...

Oh yes, there has been Lloyd and Williams and Williams and a few other guys in the mid to lower rounds, skittery little guys who only come into play when there is a legitimate speed threat or two on the team, and that is something that has not been here since Owens left.

This team is still a team built around power running and just a coaching change, as desirable and needed as it was, cannot change the makeup of the personnel of the team. This is still Mike Nolan/Mike Singletary's team and it will take another two years of shrewd drafting to bring in the kind of speedy offensive players who can perform at a level that will allow Harbaugh to truly bring out the Bill Walsh offense.

So now back to the Alex vs Frank discussion...if you must...

This is true to some extent, but Rice and Taylor were able yo get open frequently because of route running. You do not have to be fast like the eagles guys to be a threat, you just have to be able to get off the line clean and get open. Speed is a good thing, but running clean routes is overlooked by many people.

So true. We also don't know how many open deep passes the QB has overlooked and it appears he's overlooked quite a few. Morgan ran a 4.41 forty. Brandon Lloyd HAS proven to be a deep threat without Brandon Marshall. Ginn being a returner has ZERO affect on his ability to be used as a deep threat (See Deshaen Jackson).

The QB has a HUGE influence in finding the receivers open deep. Take a look at Brandon Marshall's number of 20+ yard catches with a crappier QB in MIA. He went from having 11, 16, and 13 catches of 20+ yards in DEN to 9 last year in MIA.

Between Vernon, Morgan (deceptively fast and it has been quoted in an article), and Ginn...we HAVE the deep threats. We just don't have a QB who can throw a late deep ball and get there with major zip without having to stop, set, have the space to step and then make the throw. THAT makes a huge difference.

Certainly speed alone is not enough or Renaldo Nehemiah would have been the greatest 49er receiver ever. (charges frantically to Google)

I still think Walsh got tired of Renaldo making him look bad and sent him over the middle in that Atlanta game on purpose. I have been trying to find a video of that hit for a few months now. Renaldo should have hurdled the defender..

Originally posted by leebert81:

Originally posted by zillabeast:
Uh, no the article is actually spot on. This has been a problem for years now and it's a testament to Frank Gore that he has been able to do what he has done with no support through the air. And people wonder why he's already broken down?

+1

+2

Originally posted by Memphis9er:

Originally posted by Joecool:
So true. We also don't know how many open deep passes the QB has overlooked and it appears he's overlooked quite a few. Morgan ran a 4.41 forty. Brandon Lloyd HAS proven to be a deep threat without Brandon Marshall. Ginn being a returner has ZERO affect on his ability to be used as a deep threat (See Deshaen Jackson).

The QB has a HUGE influence in finding the receivers open deep. Take a look at Brandon Marshall's number of 20+ yard catches with a crappier QB in MIA. He went from having 11, 16, and 13 catches of 20+ yards in DEN to 9 last year in MIA.

Between Vernon, Morgan (deceptively fast and it has been quoted in an article), and Ginn...we HAVE the deep threats. We just don't have a QB who can throw a late deep ball and get there with major zip without having to stop, set, have the space to step and then make the throw. THAT makes a huge difference.

If you look at his stats Smith is throwing the ball downfield when he has the time. He might be hesitant, but you really cannot blame the guy for not trusting his line. He threw a great 45 yard pass to Gore on the run with dead on accuracy and plenty of zip on it on that bad snap. I think once this team held the naysayers and guys that have chosen to ignore what Harbaugh said about the offense being a work in progress will be surprised.

Joe, he's pretty much right. You could pick out a pass play here and there where it can fairly be questioned whether Alex should have held the ball another second and decided on a deeper option... but really, not many... and the shorter ones he does hit on are when he sees a wide open option... but defenses are closing in fast and we're not getting many break-tackles for YAC.

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by Memphis9er:
This team in general is hurt by line play. Teams are blitzing us and just stopping the run on the way to the qb, we don't throw enough screens or quick passes to keep them honest, which is messed up because Smith has been one of the top qbs throwing against the blitz this year. The offense is not working in general because the line is blocking poorly, which leads to the skill players not having the time to get open to make plays. You can't really blame it on the passing game when it is the only part of the offense working. You have to look no further than the offensive line to see why the offense as a whole is struggling. Bottom line everyone is responsible from the coaches to the playcallers to the players. I expect the offense to get better as the line does.

I sort of disagree here. Teams are not just blitzing on us, they are bringing more guys than we can block. It is on the QB/WR/TE to be able to execute the quick-hit one-step throws. We are not doing this because Harbaugh doesn't call it or the QB/WR/TE cannot execute it.

Biggest problem with one-step drops has been the inability of the center to hold his ground. Even against Cincy Goodwin was being immediately pushed back as soon as he snapped the ball. That did get a little better in the second half but most of that was on three-step drops. Again, it's the OL.

It's a combo of both. Smith doesn't use his natural ability to throw a needed jump pass and the OL doesn't give him much room to step and throw. I have yet to see Alex throw an accurate short pass without room to step. In the CIN game, his short hoppers were when he didn't have room to step. He just doesn't have the arm to make that type of throw.

The two short passes I remember against Cincy in which he skipped the ball were both on scrambles where he was throwing off balance. That is a tough throw to make but not because of lack of arm strength. It is just hard to be moving forward quickly and keep the ball up. To me, that suggests more practice. It was something he did at Utah with good success.

Harbaugh did have the QB practice off balance throws. He didn't make those throws in Utah. His feet were right on most throws and the receivers were a yard or 2 open in Utah. I have yet to see him make an accurate quick off balance throw in the NFL. He's not a chest thrower, which would help more in making those throws. Practice will help but sometimes, you got it or you don't and with how our OL has blocked the past 7 years, you would think we would have seen some creative throws by Alex to this point.

I did not see all of his Utah games but it is hard to believe he did not make throws similar to the one he threw low to Crabtree.

To that point; the ball Crabtree, a guy reputed to have great hands, was an easier ball to catch than the one Reggie Smith, a guy who doesn't have great hands, intercepted.

Anyway, I made my point about the importance of receivers in the overall balance of the offense. It is just one of the components and hopefully Harbaugh will make the most of what he has and by this time next year be making personnel adjustments to bring a real passing component to the team.

Originally posted by oldman9er:

Originally posted by Memphis9er:

Originally posted by Joecool:
So true. We also don't know how many open deep passes the QB has overlooked and it appears he's overlooked quite a few. Morgan ran a 4.41 forty. Brandon Lloyd HAS proven to be a deep threat without Brandon Marshall. Ginn being a returner has ZERO affect on his ability to be used as a deep threat (See Deshaen Jackson).

The QB has a HUGE influence in finding the receivers open deep. Take a look at Brandon Marshall's number of 20+ yard catches with a crappier QB in MIA. He went from having 11, 16, and 13 catches of 20+ yards in DEN to 9 last year in MIA.

Between Vernon, Morgan (deceptively fast and it has been quoted in an article), and Ginn...we HAVE the deep threats. We just don't have a QB who can throw a late deep ball and get there with major zip without having to stop, set, have the space to step and then make the throw. THAT makes a huge difference.

If you look at his stats Smith is throwing the ball downfield when he has the time. He might be hesitant, but you really cannot blame the guy for not trusting his line. He threw a great 45 yard pass to Gore on the run with dead on accuracy and plenty of zip on it on that bad snap. I think once this team held the naysayers and guys that have chosen to ignore what Harbaugh said about the offense being a work in progress will be surprised.

Joe, he's pretty much right. You could pick out a pass play here and there where it can fairly be questioned whether Alex should have held the ball another second and decided on a deeper option... but really, not many... and the shorter ones he does hit on are when he sees a wide open option... but defenses are closing in fast and we're not getting many break-tackles for YAC.

No, yeah, I agree...when Smith has had time and sometimes getting hit on the throw, he has been accurate on the sideline routes.

I think your post has it backwards. We dont go deep we dont use or weapons at WR so that hurts our run game bad. We play to conservative and dont trust Alex( Dont blame Jim) but we have to let him throw and open up our run game. No one fears our Pass so they stack the box and thus no running game not to mention our
O Line looks like a highschool line out there.

Originally posted by cNiner:

Originally posted by leebert81:

Originally posted by zillabeast:
Uh, no the article is actually spot on. This has been a problem for years now and it's a testament to Frank Gore that he has been able to do what he has done with no support through the air. And people wonder why he's already broken down?

+1

+2

+1000000000000

On offense, the Niners have failed in every aspect of the game. The oline misses assignments and let guys run in on Smith free. They get bull rushed and straight beaten into the QB. When Smith has the time, he misses open receivers and is way too conservative with his throws. Receivers drop easy catches for first downs. Playcalling is very questionable at times. There needs to be some deep throws, even if for show. Smith can do it, it's just not his game.

The running game is ineffective due to lack of the passing game. This article is absolutely right. It is a team effort however and they have failed most of the time. They should have been able to put a beatdown on the Bengals last Sunday. The defense played a blowout game and the offense didn't respond.

Against the Eagles, the Niners will need to be more aggressive on offense. Fact is, they don't have the tools or preparation to be aggressive. Let Smith go to battle with their secondary. The team needs to make the statement on Sunday that opposing defenses can't stack the box anymore. No more protecting the QB. Let him throw some picks. Lem him gun sling for once. The Eagles will not be expecting it. Start with some quick passes and screens then drop a bomb.

As soon as the Eagles defense responds by backing up a little, let Kendall and Gore abuse the linebackers.

Originally posted by ApatheticIAm:
49ers running game hurt by poor passing attack


http://www.sacbee.com/2011/09/30/3949833/matthew-barrows-49ers-running.html#mi_rss=49ers

The title says it all. Backwards in my opinion

crap qb and oline cause team to suck and reason for lack of passing and running attack. Forget the backwards statement. Lets replace it with this one.

Originally posted by Axl49:
I think your post has it backwards. We dont go deep we dont use or weapons at WR so that hurts our run game bad. We play to conservative and dont trust Alex( Dont blame Jim) but we have to let him throw and open up our run game. No one fears our Pass so they stack the box and thus no running game not to mention our
O Line looks like a highschool line out there.

8 of the first 10 plays in the Cincy game were throws. Why do people keep saying Jim doesn't trust Alex?

Originally posted by Whomeam:
8 of the first 10 plays in the Cincy game were throws. Why do people keep saying Jim doesn't trust Alex?

Because telling themselves and others this somehow strengthens their own biased preconceptions?

( i.e. say it enough and you (+/or others) will believe it )