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harbaugh vs raye

Panthers have a rookie QB and a "rookie" HC. How come they are leading the NFL in total offense? Did they not have a lockout? The problem has been obvious for 6 years now...
Originally posted by OptimusPrime52:
there are 3 phases to football, you are absolutely right. but if you are counting on st to score points then you will be in for a world of hurt. i count on the offense to score points, well, not this offense anyways.

It's hard to even take you seriously. A) all teams count on special teams to score points, which is why the top 20 all time points leaders in the NFL are kickers. B) take away ginns returns and the offense is still averaging over 21.5 (28.5 with Ginn) points a game, which is better than last year at this time.. which over the first two games last year Smith averaged 250 yards/game with an offense averaging a whopping 14 points.

No teams COUNT of special teams or defense to win the game, but they EXPECT those units to increase the chances of winning.

Look at the Jets, considered to be an elite team by most... but were getting dominated by Dallas until a blocked punt, a fumble, and an interception return to set up a field goal. Special teams and defense werent counted on to set up scores, but they are expected to make plays and put the team in a position to win. The niners made those plays in week 1, dallas made those plays in week 2.
Originally posted by TheG0RE49er:
Panthers have a rookie QB and a "rookie" HC. How come they are leading the NFL in total offense? Did they not have a lockout? The problem has been obvious for 6 years now...

they also lead the league in offensive turnovers

and if you take away our special team points they still havent scored more points than us
Originally posted by TheG0RE49er:
Panthers have a rookie QB and a "rookie" HC. How come they are leading the NFL in total offense? Did they not have a lockout? The problem has been obvious for 6 years now...

They are 0-2. " You play to win the game" as Herm Edwards would say. It doesn't matter how you get there, just get there.
Originally posted by 5280High:
Originally posted by OptimusPrime52:
there are 3 phases to football, you are absolutely right. but if you are counting on st to score points then you will be in for a world of hurt. i count on the offense to score points, well, not this offense anyways.

It's hard to even take you seriously. A) all teams count on special teams to score points, which is why the top 20 all time points leaders in the NFL are kickers. B) take away ginns returns and the offense is still averaging over 21.5 (28.5 with Ginn) points a game, which is better than last year at this time.. which over the first two games last year Smith averaged 250 yards/game with an offense averaging a whopping 14 points.

No teams COUNT of special teams or defense to win the game, but they EXPECT those units to increase the chances of winning.

Look at the Jets, considered to be an elite team by most... but were getting dominated by Dallas until a blocked punt, a fumble, and an interception return to set up a field goal. Special teams and defense werent counted on to set up scores, but they are expected to make plays and put the team in a position to win. The niners made those plays in week 1, dallas made those plays in week 2.


bro are you kidding me? the tampa bay bucs didnt get there 1st kr for a td till just a few years ago. it took them over 50 years. so no, not all teams count on points from special teams. they count on their kicker to kick field goals and pats to score points, little different. besides quit pulling the subject off topic. this isnt a thread about special teams. this is a thread about our school yard offense. i just mentioned that ginn had to rescue our team which he did. no reason to now spin this to a st debate.
[ Edited by OptimusPrime52 on Sep 21, 2011 at 2:53 PM ]
Originally posted by 49ersalldaway126:
Originally posted by TheG0RE49er:
Panthers have a rookie QB and a "rookie" HC. How come they are leading the NFL in total offense? Did they not have a lockout? The problem has been obvious for 6 years now...

they also lead the league in offensive turnovers

and if you take away our special team points they still havent scored more points than us
Their offense has more scored more points than ours. Their Offense offense has put more TD's and gained more yards than ours. This is what this thread is about, right? our offensive philosophy and why it's not working... just because you kick 4 field goals one game, doesn't make you a better offense. Also, Cam threw 3 picks against the Pakcers, not the Cardinals, not the Cowboys, or Seattle, but against one of the best defenses in the league, and he managed to keep his team in the game until the end basically.

Originally posted by swag141:
They are 0-2. " You play to win the game" as Herm Edwards would say. It doesn't matter how you get there, just get there.

and that's why Herm has only won 2 playoffs games, and is an analyst now. conservative offense does not work in the NFL anymore. you cannot rely on just your defense to win you games.

yes, they are 0-2. but, they didn't get there because of poor offensive play.
Originally posted by OptimusPrime52:
bro are you kidding me? the tampa bay bucs didnt get there 1st kr for a td till just a few years ago. it took them over 50 years. so no, not all teams count on points from special teams. they count on their kicker to kick field goals and pats to score points, little different. besides quit pulling the subject off topic. this isnt a thread about special teams. this is a thread about our school yard offense. i just mentioned that ginn had to rescue our team which he did. no reason to now spin this to a st debate.

Rescued from the 2 point lead we already held from the last offensive drive of 15 plays, 75 yards and 9 minutes off the clock...
Originally posted by 5280High:
Originally posted by OptimusPrime52:
bro are you kidding me? the tampa bay bucs didnt get there 1st kr for a td till just a few years ago. it took them over 50 years. so no, not all teams count on points from special teams. they count on their kicker to kick field goals and pats to score points, little different. besides quit pulling the subject off topic. this isnt a thread about special teams. this is a thread about our school yard offense. i just mentioned that ginn had to rescue our team which he did. no reason to now spin this to a st debate.

Rescued from the 2 point lead we already held from the last offensive drive of 15 plays, 75 yards and 9 minutes off the clock...


almost 50% of our offense came from one drive. truely pathetic imho.
harbaugh vs who!!!!
Originally posted by OptimusPrime52:
Originally posted by 5280High:
Originally posted by OptimusPrime52:
bro are you kidding me? the tampa bay bucs didnt get there 1st kr for a td till just a few years ago. it took them over 50 years. so no, not all teams count on points from special teams. they count on their kicker to kick field goals and pats to score points, little different. besides quit pulling the subject off topic. this isnt a thread about special teams. this is a thread about our school yard offense. i just mentioned that ginn had to rescue our team which he did. no reason to now spin this to a st debate.

Rescued from the 2 point lead we already held from the last offensive drive of 15 plays, 75 yards and 9 minutes off the clock...


almost 50% of our offense came from one drive. truely pathetic imho.

Posted this in another thread, but the point is that every well known WCO since the 90's has started out similarly with almost all the QB's averaging about 200 yards/game. None of the famous WCO's from the 90's & 2000's took off until the 3rd year and 2 full offseason.

McNabb's & Andy's
1st year: 106/216 for 948 yards
2nd year: 330/569 for 3365 yards
3rd year: 3273 yards as a team (includes all QB's since McNabb was injured)
4th year: 4208 yards as a team (includes all QB's since McNabb was injured)

Seattle when Holmgren got there (Kitna, Dilfer and Hasslebeck were all apart of the rotation)...
1st year team passing stats : 3200 yards
year 2: 3162 yards
year 3: 4257 yards

In Green bay with Farve
Years 1 & 2: ~3250 yards per year
Year 3: 3882 yards
Year 4: 4413 yards
Originally posted by 5280High:
Originally posted by OptimusPrime52:
Originally posted by 5280High:
Originally posted by OptimusPrime52:
bro are you kidding me? the tampa bay bucs didnt get there 1st kr for a td till just a few years ago. it took them over 50 years. so no, not all teams count on points from special teams. they count on their kicker to kick field goals and pats to score points, little different. besides quit pulling the subject off topic. this isnt a thread about special teams. this is a thread about our school yard offense. i just mentioned that ginn had to rescue our team which he did. no reason to now spin this to a st debate.

Rescued from the 2 point lead we already held from the last offensive drive of 15 plays, 75 yards and 9 minutes off the clock...


almost 50% of our offense came from one drive. truely pathetic imho.

Posted this in another thread, but the point is that every well known WCO since the 90's has started out similarly with almost all the QB's averaging about 200 yards/game. None of the famous WCO's from the 90's & 2000's took off until the 3rd year and 2 full offseason.

McNabb's & Andy's
1st year: 106/216 for 948 yards
2nd year: 330/569 for 3365 yards
3rd year: 3273 yards as a team (includes all QB's since McNabb was injured)
4th year: 4208 yards as a team (includes all QB's since McNabb was injured)

Seattle when Holmgren got there (Kitna, Dilfer and Hasslebeck were all apart of the rotation)...
1st year team passing stats : 3200 yards
year 2: 3162 yards
year 3: 4257 yards

In Green bay with Farve
Years 1 & 2: ~3250 yards per year
Year 3: 3882 yards
Year 4: 4413 yards

Did the Eagles and SEA have rookies starting the WCO?
Originally posted by TheG0RE49er:
Their offense has more scored more points than ours. Their Offense offense has put more TD's and gained more yards than ours. This is what this thread is about, right? our offensive philosophy and why it's not working... just because you kick 4 field goals one game, doesn't make you a better offense. Also, Cam threw 3 picks against the Pakcers, not the Cardinals, not the Cowboys, or Seattle, but against one of the best defenses in the league, and he managed to keep his team in the game until the end basically.


and that's why Herm has only won 2 playoffs games, and is an analyst now. conservative offense does not work in the NFL anymore. you cannot rely on just your defense to win you games.

yes, they are 0-2. but, they didn't get there because of poor offensive play.

no they havent

we have 57 points scored

the panthers have 43

take out our 2 special team TDs

thats 43=43

and while were at it they have 5 total turnovers

we have 1 total turnover
Originally posted by Joecool:
Did the Eagles and SEA have rookies starting the WCO?

Eagles yes, Seattle and Green Bay actually had Vets (sort of in GB).

Seattle had Kitna starting out, then hasslebeck got traded from GB and Dilfer came from the ravens to split duties for a couple seasons before Hasslebeck took the job over completely.

And technically Farve had started games for the falcons before the trade to GB so he was in his second year when he started for GB. Don Mjkowski (?) was the starting QB for the beginning the 91 & 92 seasons when Holmgren first got there, but was soon benched for farve during the 92 season.
[ Edited by 5280High on Sep 21, 2011 at 3:59 PM ]
Originally posted by TheG0RE49er:
Originally posted by 49ersalldaway126:
Originally posted by TheG0RE49er:
Panthers have a rookie QB and a "rookie" HC. How come they are leading the NFL in total offense? Did they not have a lockout? The problem has been obvious for 6 years now...

they also lead the league in offensive turnovers

and if you take away our special team points they still havent scored more points than us
Their offense has more scored more points than ours. Their Offense offense has put more TD's and gained more yards than ours. This is what this thread is about, right? our offensive philosophy and why it's not working... just because you kick 4 field goals one game, doesn't make you a better offense. Also, Cam threw 3 picks against the Pakcers, not the Cardinals, not the Cowboys, or Seattle, but against one of the best defenses in the league, and he managed to keep his team in the game until the end basically.

Originally posted by swag141:
They are 0-2. " You play to win the game" as Herm Edwards would say. It doesn't matter how you get there, just get there.

and that's why Herm has only won 2 playoffs games, and is an analyst now. conservative offense does not work in the NFL anymore. you cannot rely on just your defense to win you games.

yes, they are 0-2. but, they didn't get there because of poor offensive play.

The Packers rank 30th in total defense, not one of the best in the league this year. Jim Harbaugh is not Herm Edwards. If JH ends up with a similar path as Herm, you posts will have some validity.
Originally posted by TheG0RE49er:
Panthers have a rookie QB and a "rookie" HC. How come they are leading the NFL in total offense? Did they not have a lockout? The problem has been obvious for 6 years now...

The offense has been a "problem" for a long as Garcia has been gone. That's more than 6 years.