QBR watch (week 2) **updated**

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:

I really like guys like 49ersallday and Memphis as posters, and I consider them very knowledgable, more so than me. And I dont mean to be disrespectful......

BUT,

Their defense of Smith absolutly makes me crazy. The game plan that Smith ran yesterday could have easily been executed by any decent NFL QB. If he was an investment he would be described as low risk/ low reward. If guys like Brady and Brees are Apple stock (shot out to Tico), Alex Smith is a savings account or a bank CD. In fact, that defines his whole career.

Yesterday's performance was ok, but nothing to write home about. And regardless of what the QBR stat says, that was not a top ten performance. I believe that a number of guys on that list would of had a better QBR given the exact same game plan. Of course, that is just my humble opinion. Harbaugh clearly designed a game plan that would insulate Alex from failure. Low risk/ low reward, of which Alex is the master.


I'm just curious, how many people on the Zone actually watch other teams play? Because a lot of throws that the zone seems to get excited about are pretty standard around the rest of the league.

Thanks for the shout out Oak, I always like to read your posts too. As far as Smith goes, I only defend him when people start in with ridiculous b******t. I think he played okay, but I could have probably executed 90% of that game plan. People, especially the hardcore detractors think I love Smith no matter what he does, but when he makes a bonehead play, I get just as pissed as anyone else. I think the difference is that I understand football and its nuances a little better than someone that is just a casual fan, so I notice things like cut off routes and read progressions. There are plenty of legitimate reasons to complain about Smith, and I have no problem with anyone doing so. But when someone is blaming him for problems he is not causing, I am not afraid to speak up. We have a few guys on this site that obviously have no idea what has to happen in order for a play to be successful, they see a pass not go to the receiver and instead of recognizing that the receiver ran the wrong route, it is automatically the qbs fault. A prime example is the play where Crabtree was open in the back left of the endzone, sure he was open, but you can very clearly see Smith had already passed him in his read progression. Did he go through his progression too fast? Possibly, but I cannot say for sure. In my opinion Smith played a smart, safe game, made three very good throws and didn't make any WTF plays, nothing spectacular other than this three throws. He did nothing to be crying about like some of our guys are doing.

I am an unabashed Niner homer, have been since I was nine. I root for every guy that wears the Red & Gold, and I get upset when I feel someone is unfairly doggin one of my boys, whatever name is on his jersey. I don't like people crappin on Crabtree or Kaepernick, Anthony Davis, Gore or anyone else that is a niner. I have a low tolerance for dumbassery, especially when it involves bashing our players. I am one of The Faithful, and I am proud of it.

Originally posted by Young2Rice:

Weiss coached in NE until 2004.
Not sure if Haley runs the same O as Belichek.

And also Cassell was in his second year not his first when he put up those stats. You guys are quicker then editing! I miss that preview function...

He does run the same offense, that was the whole point of bringing Cassel, who is a decent QB in the right system, in.

Originally posted by JeuSF49:
Since Bill Walsh installed the WCO offence cirtics have allway dimished it as a dink and dunk offence. With a lot of checkdowns, few deep vertical passes, a disgrace to football.
Well all these years we've been trying to play a vertical passing game with little success, Alex did not look good, a lot of INTs, people were dissastisfied and actually were happy with Shaun Hill who was dinking and dunking it.

Now Smith dinks and dunks it in a game were most of the routes that were open were checkdowns, he actually completes 75% of these passes and people b***h about it, not to forget the knack on Smith was that he's shows no touch on checkdowns. Now when he does again it's not right.

It is as it is Smith is the Qb for 2011, and people could start supporting the team and not just b***h about it.

Andy Reid is a Bill Walsh protege and Mike Vick is running the WCO offense right? oops..... inconvenient comparison, sorry.

Originally posted by Shaj:

Originally posted by JeuSF49:

Since Bill Walsh installed the WCO offence cirtics have allway dimished it as a dink and dunk offence. With a lot of checkdowns, few deep vertical passes, a disgrace to football.
Well all these years we've been trying to play a vertical passing game with little success, Alex did not look good, a lot of INTs, people were dissastisfied and actually were happy with Shaun Hill who was dinking and dunking it.

Now Smith dinks and dunks it in a game were most of the routes that were open were checkdowns, he actually completes 75% of these passes and people b***h about it, not to forget the knack on Smith was that he's shows no touch on checkdowns. Now when he does again it's not right.

It is as it is Smith is the Qb for 2011, and people could start supporting the team and not just b***h about it.

Andy Reid is a Bill Walsh protege and Mike Vick is running the WCO offense right? oops..... inconvenient comparison, sorry.

Did you quote the wrong post bro? What you said makes no sense in relation to what you quoted. Or has your girl not brought you coffee yet?

What were the monday night QB's ratings?

Originally posted by Shaj:
Andy Reid is a Bill Walsh protege and Mike Vick is running the WCO offense right? oops..... inconvenient comparison, sorry.

Nice thing about the Walsh system, as opposed to the WCO, is that he would change any feature based on his players abilities and the opponent's tendencies. There were games when his teams looked almost like an Al Davis offense, slinging the ball downfield. BW was lucky enough to have studies with Davis, Brown, Coryell, and many other very creative and astute offensive coaches, and he borrowed from them all depending on the situation. The willingness to adapt was what I liked most about the 9ers. When people say that defenses caught up with the WCO I would argue that the 1990 Ds may have beaten the 1985 WCO, but by that time Walsh's mind was still lightyears ahead of most coaches...but was retired by that time. Seifert still won a super bowl after that and people who hated the WCO still said the system was outdated because many thought it was a gimmick O, not giving Walsh his due.

Originally posted by Memphis9er:

Originally posted by Shaj:

Originally posted by JeuSF49:
Since Bill Walsh installed the WCO offence cirtics have allway dimished it as a dink and dunk offence. With a lot of checkdowns, few deep vertical passes, a disgrace to football.
Well all these years we've been trying to play a vertical passing game with little success, Alex did not look good, a lot of INTs, people were dissastisfied and actually were happy with Shaun Hill who was dinking and dunking it.

Now Smith dinks and dunks it in a game were most of the routes that were open were checkdowns, he actually completes 75% of these passes and people b***h about it, not to forget the knack on Smith was that he's shows no touch on checkdowns. Now when he does again it's not right.

It is as it is Smith is the Qb for 2011, and people could start supporting the team and not just b***h about it.

Andy Reid is a Bill Walsh protege and Mike Vick is running the WCO offense right? oops..... inconvenient comparison, sorry.

Did you quote the wrong post bro? What you said makes no sense in relation to what you quoted. Or has your girl not brought you coffee yet?

point is that the WCO is being used to justify Smith's dink and dunk passing last Sunday, yet a great example of a modern day WCO from the Walsh coaching tree debunks that "excuse" completely.

Originally posted by Shaj:

Originally posted by Memphis9er:

Originally posted by Shaj:

Originally posted by JeuSF49:
Since Bill Walsh installed the WCO offence cirtics have allway dimished it as a dink and dunk offence. With a lot of checkdowns, few deep vertical passes, a disgrace to football.
Well all these years we've been trying to play a vertical passing game with little success, Alex did not look good, a lot of INTs, people were dissastisfied and actually were happy with Shaun Hill who was dinking and dunking it.

Now Smith dinks and dunks it in a game were most of the routes that were open were checkdowns, he actually completes 75% of these passes and people b***h about it, not to forget the knack on Smith was that he's shows no touch on checkdowns. Now when he does again it's not right.

It is as it is Smith is the Qb for 2011, and people could start supporting the team and not just b***h about it.

Andy Reid is a Bill Walsh protege and Mike Vick is running the WCO offense right? oops..... inconvenient comparison, sorry.

Did you quote the wrong post bro? What you said makes no sense in relation to what you quoted. Or has your girl not brought you coffee yet?

point is that the WCO is being used to justify Smith's dink and dunk passing last Sunday, yet a great example of a modern day WCO from the Walsh coaching tree debunks that "excuse" completely.

did you not hear Harbaugh when he said his WCO is nothing like Walsh's?

Harbaugh: You're not going to see a replication of what the team did in the ‘80s or ‘90s. Similar terminology and verbage. Very similar. The west coast is a big, big system. It can encompass the talents of your players to be used in a variety of ways. Not the exact formations and play calls, but principles, terminology, absolutely very similar."

Originally posted by Jcool:
Plenty of people have talked about the bad 3rd down rate. Harbaugh clearly wasnt ready to trust him on 3rd downs yet because anything over 5 yards was a Gore run.

That is ridiculous. Smith is a 7 year vet. He is not a young college QB that left school his junior year. If Harbaugh was so unsure about his abilities, he should have played Smith for most of the preseason. As a coach, if you cant trust your starting QB (7 year vet) to throw on 3 and 8, that QB has no business starting a game. If Harbaugh was so worried for Smith, why didn't call a play was familiar with, something he has learned in his last SIX years of NFL football.

Originally posted by Shaj:
point is that the WCO is being used to justify Smith's dink and dunk passing last Sunday, yet a great example of a modern day WCO from the Walsh coaching tree debunks that "excuse" completely.

how many years has Vick been in that Philly system? and how many years has Philly run that system?

Smiths dinks and dunks need no excuses or blame or anything. He took what he could, followed the gameplan, protected the ball, we got the win. Now lets get ready for Dallas.

Originally posted by JeuSF49:
Since Bill Walsh installed the WCO offence cirtics have allway dimished it as a dink and dunk offence. With a lot of checkdowns, few deep vertical passes, a disgrace to football.
Well all these years we've been trying to play a vertical passing game with little success, Alex did not look good, a lot of INTs, people were dissastisfied and actually were happy with Shaun Hill who was dinking and dunking it.

Now Smith dinks and dunks it in a game were most of the routes that were open were checkdowns, he actually completes 75% of these passes and people b***h about it, not to forget the knack on Smith was that he's shows no touch on checkdowns. Now when he does again it's not right.

It is as it is Smith is the Qb for 2011, and people could start supporting the team and not just b***h about it.

THIS!!

Originally posted by JeuSF49:
Also Brady threw a 99 TD pass to Welker in fact a 1 yd checkdown pass, I guess thats also terrible

AND THIS x 1 googleplex. YAC YAC YAC

Originally posted by HessianDud:

Originally posted by Shaj:
point is that the WCO is being used to justify Smith's dink and dunk passing last Sunday, yet a great example of a modern day WCO from the Walsh coaching tree debunks that "excuse" completely.

how many years has Vick been in that Philly system? and how many years has Philly run that system?

Smiths dinks and dunks need no excuses or blame or anything. He took what he could, followed the gameplan, protected the ball, we got the win. Now lets get ready for Dallas.

None of that stuff matters. A QB is supposed to come right out of college and throw for 30 TDs a season.

Originally posted by NineFourNiner:

Originally posted by JeuSF49:
Since Bill Walsh installed the WCO offence cirtics have allway dimished it as a dink and dunk offence. With a lot of checkdowns, few deep vertical passes, a disgrace to football.
Well all these years we've been trying to play a vertical passing game with little success, Alex did not look good, a lot of INTs, people were dissastisfied and actually were happy with Shaun Hill who was dinking and dunking it.

Now Smith dinks and dunks it in a game were most of the routes that were open were checkdowns, he actually completes 75% of these passes and people b***h about it, not to forget the knack on Smith was that he's shows no touch on checkdowns. Now when he does again it's not right.

It is as it is Smith is the Qb for 2011, and people could start supporting the team and not just b***h about it.

THIS!!

Originally posted by JeuSF49:
Also Brady threw a 99 TD pass to Welker in fact a 1 yd checkdown pass, I guess thats also terrible

AND THIS x 1 googleplex. YAC YAC YAC

I am all for dink and dunk since it is a huge part of the WCO. But our receivers too many times have to break from their routes to catch balls from Smith resulting in very low YAC. The effectiveness of the WCO diminish greatly because of this.

I think Smith played fine against Seattle, but he needs to do better to be considered a mid-tiered QB.

Originally posted by pigskin:
I am all for dink and dunk since it is a huge part of the WCO. But our receivers too many times have to break from their routes to catch balls from Smith resulting in very low YAC. The effectiveness of the WCO diminish greatly because of this.

I think Smith played fine against Seattle, but he needs to do better to be considered a mid-tiered QB.

Completely agree with the underlined. That has been a consistent problem (high throws in particular). This week, I did not see that. Smith was more accurate and put the balls in the right places. Will it continue? I hope so, but Smith's consistency has been an issue.

Originally posted by LambdaChi49:

Originally posted by HessianDud:

Originally posted by Shaj:
point is that the WCO is being used to justify Smith's dink and dunk passing last Sunday, yet a great example of a modern day WCO from the Walsh coaching tree debunks that "excuse" completely.

how many years has Vick been in that Philly system? and how many years has Philly run that system?

Smiths dinks and dunks need no excuses or blame or anything. He took what he could, followed the gameplan, protected the ball, we got the win. Now lets get ready for Dallas.

None of that stuff matters. A QB is supposed to come right out of college and throw for 30 TDs a season.

Calendar check: Smith was selected in 2005. It is now 2011.