steve young: i can see alex holding lombardi trophy

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by BayAreaBrawler:

Originally posted by Shaj:

Originally posted by BayAreaBrawler:

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by BrianGO:

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
I feel like I'm waiting for the great pumpkin.....

Every year I feel like Charlie Brown while Alex Smith is Lucy.

More like Smith is Charlie and the Yorks are Lucy. "We promise to give you what you need to succeed this year...really!"

Nahhhh the Alex Smith example is much better.......

Alex wouldn't pull the ball, he'd fumble it

True but Alex would also be a cock tease and start playing great, pull you in making you think he can lead a comeback until all of a sudden he throws a bone headed pick. aka, pulling the ball away right before charlie kicks it

What are the seats like on the away side of the field? Nice?

So you're mad that Alex is a prime example of what I just described?

Originally posted by BayAreaBrawler:
So you're mad that Alex is a prime example of what I just described?

Did you describe something? Thought you were just trolling for affect.

Originally posted by Shaj:

Originally posted by OnTheClock:

Originally posted by Shaj:

Originally posted by GNielsen:

That's one of the interesting things about these webzone discussions. On any given day, you can find guys who are clearly more in the know than Steve Young! Steve Young? What does he know? If you want real football knowledge, you come to a webzone discussion! These guys will set you straight.

how about Jerry Rice? What does he know?

"Alex Smith is not the type of quarterback that is going to elevate other players' games. "It's going to be that other players have to elevate his game."

http://www.mercurynews.com/49ers/ci_18836888?nclick_check=1

In a way it makes sense. All the missed blocks, dropped passes, and run-for-your life circumstances we've seen would hinder a QB from helping everyone else on the team look like they're coming close to actually doing their job.

I think it goes both ways. Pass-protect, and catch it when it hits your hands. But like Montana said, with virtually no opportunity to make plays, "what do you want him to do? He's either got to throw it into traffic or take a sack or throw it away, so none of them are very good options." I think all three -- Montana, Young, and Rice -- have some interesting and valid points about our team. All three concede the team around him has been bad and the situation Alex has been in has been very, very bad.

Did you notice how *instantly* awful the Cards were after Warner retired? The whole team suddenly looked inept. And if Warner was never there, you would say the team was inept, from top to bottom, and Whizenhunt wouldn't still be their coach if he never had Warner. QBs make that kind of difference. We have that potential too, except we have dead weight at the QB position.

Shaj, that is just not a good argument. That would be a good argument if they ONLY lost Warner, but that's not the case. I think you're completely ignoring their coaching. Whisenhunt >>>>> Singletary. Haley >>>>> Raye. Pendergast >>>> Manusky. They lost KEY coaches that helped them to their Super Bowl run, in addition to the following players: Edgerrin James, Anquan Boldin, Bertrand Berry (HECK of a pass-rusher), Chike Okeafor, Antonio Smith (HECK of a pass-rusher).

And even worse.. the Cardinals went from HALL OF FAMER to.. Undrafted rookie (Max Hall) and a rookie 5th rounder out of a very small school (Skelton) as their starters. What do you expect from QBs exponentially worse than Alex even?!

I was SHOCKED the Cardinals even managed to win 5 games with that. If they had even had just an average QB, some might argue they might've won the division.

Losing Warner definitely contributed, but you really, REALLY have to look at the other parts of that team as well. What I can agree with is that if we did have a HOF caliber QB like that, we do have that potential with the pieces we have now -- a head coach with a brain, Pro Bowl WR, TE, RB.. and if our OL is just a little better, we would be a heck of an offensive team.

Originally posted by OnTheClock:

Originally posted by Shaj:

Originally posted by OnTheClock:

Originally posted by Shaj:

Originally posted by GNielsen:
That's one of the interesting things about these webzone discussions. On any given day, you can find guys who are clearly more in the know than Steve Young! Steve Young? What does he know? If you want real football knowledge, you come to a webzone discussion! These guys will set you straight.

how about Jerry Rice? What does he know?

"Alex Smith is not the type of quarterback that is going to elevate other players' games. "It's going to be that other players have to elevate his game."

http://www.mercurynews.com/49ers/ci_18836888?nclick_check=1

In a way it makes sense. All the missed blocks, dropped passes, and run-for-your life circumstances we've seen would hinder a QB from helping everyone else on the team look like they're coming close to actually doing their job.

I think it goes both ways. Pass-protect, and catch it when it hits your hands. But like Montana said, with virtually no opportunity to make plays, "what do you want him to do? He's either got to throw it into traffic or take a sack or throw it away, so none of them are very good options." I think all three -- Montana, Young, and Rice -- have some interesting and valid points about our team. All three concede the team around him has been bad and the situation Alex has been in has been very, very bad.

Did you notice how *instantly* awful the Cards were after Warner retired? The whole team suddenly looked inept. And if Warner was never there, you would say the team was inept, from top to bottom, and Whizenhunt wouldn't still be their coach if he never had Warner. QBs make that kind of difference. We have that potential too, except we have dead weight at the QB position.

Shaj, that is just not a good argument. That would be a good argument if they ONLY lost Warner, but that's not the case. I think you're completely ignoring their coaching. Whisenhunt >>>>> Singletary. Haley >>>>> Raye. Pendergast >>>> Manusky. They lost KEY coaches that helped them to their Super Bowl run, in addition to the following players: Edgerrin James, Anquan Boldin, Bertrand Berry (HECK of a pass-rusher), Chike Okeafor, Antonio Smith (HECK of a pass-rusher).

And even worse.. the Cardinals went from HALL OF FAMER to.. Undrafted rookie (Max Hall) and a rookie 5th rounder out of a very small school (Skelton) as their starters. What do you expect from QBs exponentially worse than Alex even?!

I was SHOCKED the Cardinals even managed to win 5 games with that. If they had even had just an average QB, some might argue they might've won the division.

Losing Warner definitely contributed, but you really, REALLY have to look at the other parts of that team as well. What I can agree with is that if we did have a HOF caliber QB like that, we do have that potential with the pieces we have now -- a head coach with a brain, Pro Bowl WR, TE, RB.. and if our OL is just a little better, we would be a heck of an offensive team.

It's never a good argument, because when we are having debates here in wonderland, every argument against Smith can be dissected to find SOME flaw that somehow therefore makes the entire argument null. Meanwhile, ridiculous analogies like comparing Smith to Steve Young are applauded, because they both sucked early in their careers. Nice.

The Colts are getting HAMMERED without Manning. 34 - 0 and it's not even over. Without knowing their history, one would think their entire team is inept, including no-name coach Jim Caldwell. However, with Manning, they all look like geniuses. That's the way it works. Good QBs elevate the play of the team. Bad QBs make everyone - coaches and players - look inept. The most dangerous combination is bad QBs with a great attitude and work ethic (like Smith), because they hang around longer and cause more damage instead of getting smartly ripped off like a bandaid, like the Raiders did with Jamarcus.

Originally posted by Shaj:

It's never a good argument, because when we are having debates here in wonderland, every argument against Smith can be dissected to find SOME flaw that somehow therefore makes the entire argument null. Meanwhile, ridiculous analogies like comparing Smith to Steve Young are applauded, because they both sucked early in their careers. Nice.

The Colts are getting HAMMERED without Manning. 34 - 0 and it's not even over. Without knowing their history, one would think their entire team is inept, including no-name coach Jim Caldwell. However, with Manning, they all look like geniuses. That's the way it works. Good QBs elevate the play of the team. Bad QBs make everyone - coaches and players - look inept. The most dangerous combination is bad QBs with a great attitude and work ethic (like Smith), because they hang around longer and cause more damage instead of getting smartly ripped off like a bandaid, like the Raiders did with Jamarcus.

I'm not sure you fully read what I said. Having a better QB definitely makes a difference. Having a HOF on the other hand makes a world of a difference. I'm not surprised that Collins -- signed off the street out of retirement in the third week of pre-season -- looks horrendous. The Manning example is premature. Why? Texans are proving they may be the real deal the way they're dominating now. Say they dominate against elite QBs this year. Well, that would tell us that it probably wouldn't have mattered much if Manning was in there. Especially considering the Colts have three new starters on the OL. At OG Joe Reitz, a 2nd year player who has never started an NFL game, and at LT and RT, with the new LT being a rookie (Castonzo).

Bad OL + Mediocre QB = DISASTER. People could have easily predicted the Colts were going to get destroyed today based on the facts I just mentioned.

To conclude: bad coaches can make themselves look bad all on their own. No one cares that Josh McDaniels helped Orton garner career best numbers. No one cares that Brandon Lloyd was turned into a pro bowler under him. He was a terrible coach. Just like Singletary. No one cares that Singletary got Vernon to snap out of his bad attitude and become a Pro Bowler.

Originally posted by OnTheClock:

Originally posted by Shaj:
It's never a good argument, because when we are having debates here in wonderland, every argument against Smith can be dissected to find SOME flaw that somehow therefore makes the entire argument null. Meanwhile, ridiculous analogies like comparing Smith to Steve Young are applauded, because they both sucked early in their careers. Nice.

The Colts are getting HAMMERED without Manning. 34 - 0 and it's not even over. Without knowing their history, one would think their entire team is inept, including no-name coach Jim Caldwell. However, with Manning, they all look like geniuses. That's the way it works. Good QBs elevate the play of the team. Bad QBs make everyone - coaches and players - look inept. The most dangerous combination is bad QBs with a great attitude and work ethic (like Smith), because they hang around longer and cause more damage instead of getting smartly ripped off like a bandaid, like the Raiders did with Jamarcus.

I'm not sure you fully read what I said. Having a better QB definitely makes a difference. Having a HOF on the other hand makes a world of a difference. I'm not surprised that Collins -- signed off the street out of retirement in the third week of pre-season -- looks horrendous. The Manning example is premature. Why? Texans are proving they may be the real deal the way they're dominating now. Say they dominate against elite QBs this year. Well, that would tell us that it probably wouldn't have mattered much if Manning was in there. Especially considering the Colts have three new starters on the OL. At OG Joe Reitz, a 2nd year player who has never started an NFL game, and at LT and RT, with the new LT being a rookie (Castonzo).

Bad OL + Mediocre QB = DISASTER. People could have easily predicted the Colts were going to get destroyed today based on the facts I just mentioned.

To conclude: bad coaches can make themselves look bad all on their own. No one cares that Josh McDaniels helped Orton garner career best numbers. No one cares that Brandon Lloyd was turned into a pro bowler under him. He was a terrible coach. Just like Singletary. No one cares that Singletary got Vernon to snap out of his bad attitude and become a Pro Bowler.

Which is why I did not pick the Colts to win today...and I'm not an expert by any means. Manning should take his time getting back if he wants to stay healthy. That does not mean anyone is comparing Smith to Manning! Just acknowledging how important all the other elements of the team are.

@dtg I actually did describe something. It's not like what I was saying about Alex wasn't true.... Example, the philly game last season. 2 TD drives in a row, making a comeback, then an INT to finish it off. Except he was kinda hit when he threw so not all his fault on that last 49er play of that game.

@ dtg I actually did describe something. It's not like what I was saying about Alex wasn't true.... Example, the philly game last season. 2 TD drives in a row, making a comeback, then an INT to finish it off. Except he was kinda hit when he threw so not all his fault on that last 49er play of that game.

Originally posted by BayAreaBrawler:
@dtg I actually did describe something. It's not like what I was saying about Alex wasn't true.... Example, the philly game last season. 2 TD drives in a row, making a comeback, then an INT to finish it off. Except he was kinda hit when he threw so not all his fault on that last 49er play of that game.

Yes, I do understand your point but there has been so much Smith bashing, unfair and otherwise, that it gets old discussing the many variables that contribute to his erratic play. Didn't mean to give you short shrift. Here's hoping he does well this year and the 9ers make it to the playoffs.

Originally posted by OnTheClock:

Originally posted by Shaj:
It's never a good argument, because when we are having debates here in wonderland, every argument against Smith can be dissected to find SOME flaw that somehow therefore makes the entire argument null. Meanwhile, ridiculous analogies like comparing Smith to Steve Young are applauded, because they both sucked early in their careers. Nice.

The Colts are getting HAMMERED without Manning. 34 - 0 and it's not even over. Without knowing their history, one would think their entire team is inept, including no-name coach Jim Caldwell. However, with Manning, they all look like geniuses. That's the way it works. Good QBs elevate the play of the team. Bad QBs make everyone - coaches and players - look inept. The most dangerous combination is bad QBs with a great attitude and work ethic (like Smith), because they hang around longer and cause more damage instead of getting smartly ripped off like a bandaid, like the Raiders did with Jamarcus.

I'm not sure you fully read what I said. Having a better QB definitely makes a difference. Having a HOF on the other hand makes a world of a difference. I'm not surprised that Collins -- signed off the street out of retirement in the third week of pre-season -- looks horrendous. The Manning example is premature. Why? Texans are proving they may be the real deal the way they're dominating now. Say they dominate against elite QBs this year. Well, that would tell us that it probably wouldn't have mattered much if Manning was in there. Especially considering the Colts have three new starters on the OL. At OG Joe Reitz, a 2nd year player who has never started an NFL game, and at LT and RT, with the new LT being a rookie (Castonzo).

Bad OL + Mediocre QB = DISASTER. People could have easily predicted the Colts were going to get destroyed today based on the facts I just mentioned.

To conclude: bad coaches can make themselves look bad all on their own. No one cares that Josh McDaniels helped Orton garner career best numbers. No one cares that Brandon Lloyd was turned into a pro bowler under him. He was a terrible coach. Just like Singletary. No one cares that Singletary got Vernon to snap out of his bad attitude and become a Pro Bowler.

While you make some good points...... there is never a comparison that Alex apologists will accept. every comparison, except the ones where a HOF QB used to suck like Alex, is somehow incomparable because of some obscure and unprovable assertion that makes it not a perfect comparison.

Originally posted by Shaj:
While you make some good points...... there is never a comparison that Alex apologists will accept. every comparison, except the ones where a HOF QB used to suck like Alex, is somehow incomparable because of some obscure and unprovable assertion that makes it not a perfect comparison.

And it seems there is nothing Smith can do short of winning MVP of the next five Super Bowls that will get his detractors off his back. I doubt that would even do it as many would give Harbaugh all the credit.

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by Shaj:
While you make some good points...... there is never a comparison that Alex apologists will accept. every comparison, except the ones where a HOF QB used to suck like Alex, is somehow incomparable because of some obscure and unprovable assertion that makes it not a perfect comparison.

And it seems there is nothing Smith can do short of winning MVP of the next five Super Bowls that will get his detractors off his back. I doubt that would even do it as many would give Harbaugh all the credit.

now you're being ridiculous. While we're at it, he should be an astronaut too.

Originally posted by Shaj:
now you're being ridiculous. While we're at it, he should be an astronaut too.

I like that, first QB in space? Space rating is 135! With limited gravity the passing yardage would be astronomical.

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by Shaj:
now you're being ridiculous. While we're at it, he should be an astronaut too.

I like that, first QB in space? Space rating is 135! With limited gravity the passing yardage would be astronomical.

that's about what he needs to be successful, lol.

I'm happy with Smith today. This performance won't get it done every game this year though