ESPN Ranking NFL starting quarterbacks (Alex Smith #28)

Originally posted by OnTheClock:

Originally posted by backontop:

Originally posted by DonnieDarko:

Originally posted by backontop:
Kind of like when he plays well the haterexcuses roll in? Oh his 4 TD's was because the WR's and the OLine...Oh we won the game because of the defense...

when the f**k did smith throw 4td's?

didn't he throw 4TD's in the game against the Texans when he came in for Hill when he was benched? hmmmm let me google to verify my no factual facts.

Or that time when he threw for 300+ yards and 2 TDs against Seattle, despite two players dropping two perfect passes in the end zone, which ultimately cost us the game? Then it went from, "He hasn't even thrown for 300 yards before!" to "Stats don't mean anything! It's the W's! And since he didn't get the W he SUCKED that game and made us lose! He should have WILLED us to victory!" Alex is not a good QB, but when he has credit taken away from him even when he does do something good it's just ridiculous.

I'm not expecting the kid to have a great year, but even if he does manage to put up above average stats, the praise will all be passed off to others - Harbaugh, Gore, Vernon, Braylon, Crabtree, the defense, etc.

Exactly! Alex Smith is in a situation with some fans that no matter how well he plays it will never be good enough. He will always be judged off of how he performed under horrible circumstances with horrible HC's, OC's and a horrible supporting cast. Alex Smith is an average to slightly above average QB right now and that is with our horrible OLine play.

Who cares about this opinion piece? You guys get too worked up over a list based only on opinion from a guy that probably only looks at the box scores of a game. Smith hasn't even been the biggest problem. With all the high draft picks that we have seen suck and get traded or cut, I would be forced to say player development has held this team back more than any one individual player. We will see how things pan out, right now offensive line play is a bigger concern than Clayton sharing an opinion based on a less than complete in depth look at the organization in general. While no one would argue that Smith has to play better, there are players on that list that played worse than Smith last year. Everyone has a right to their opinion, in my opinion he should be in the 15-20 range.

Originally posted by backontop:

Originally posted by OnTheClock:

Originally posted by backontop:

Originally posted by DonnieDarko:

Originally posted by backontop:
Kind of like when he plays well the haterexcuses roll in? Oh his 4 TD's was because the WR's and the OLine...Oh we won the game because of the defense...

when the f**k did smith throw 4td's?

didn't he throw 4TD's in the game against the Texans when he came in for Hill when he was benched? hmmmm let me google to verify my no factual facts.

Or that time when he threw for 300+ yards and 2 TDs against Seattle, despite two players dropping two perfect passes in the end zone, which ultimately cost us the game? Then it went from, "He hasn't even thrown for 300 yards before!" to "Stats don't mean anything! It's the W's! And since he didn't get the W he SUCKED that game and made us lose! He should have WILLED us to victory!" Alex is not a good QB, but when he has credit taken away from him even when he does do something good it's just ridiculous.

I'm not expecting the kid to have a great year, but even if he does manage to put up above average stats, the praise will all be passed off to others - Harbaugh, Gore, Vernon, Braylon, Crabtree, the defense, etc.

Exactly! Alex Smith is in a situation with some fans that no matter how well he plays it will never be good enough. He will always be judged off of how he performed under horrible circumstances with horrible HC's, OC's and a horrible supporting cast. Alex Smith is an average to slightly above average QB right now and that is with our horrible OLine play.

Yes on the last 2 posts. He has improved. He's in the average category right about now. Our O Line which we keep trying to fix is the worst I've ever seen. Probably worse now than ever before. And yes he deserves credit when he does stuff right. But he will never get it. Others will be given credit.

Originally posted by Memphis9er:
Who cares about this opinion piece? You guys get too worked up over a list based only on opinion from a guy that probably only looks at the box scores of a game. Smith hasn't even been the biggest problem. With all the high draft picks that we have seen suck and get traded or cut, I would be forced to say player development has held this team back more than any one individual player. We will see how things pan out, right now offensive line play is a bigger concern than Clayton sharing an opinion based on a less than complete in depth look at the organization in general. While no one would argue that Smith has to play better, there are players on that list that played worse than Smith last year. Everyone has a right to their opinion, in my opinion he should be in the 15-20 range.

That's where I put him. 15 - 20. I think that's realistic right now. People looking at him 28 - 32 are remembering the past. And they aren't looking at how bad our O Line is. When you get hit on step 2 of a 3 step drop something is wrong... It's Alex's fault...

Haha The hysteria is funny here. This rankings list is stupid... Brett Favre?

MArk Sanchez?

The reality is that Alex Smith belongs somewhere in a group of low to mid-20's QB's. Clayton is projecting with some of his picks because at this very moment those QB's aren't as good as Alex Smith, but he thinks they will be later. None of this matters, but I am always amazed by the vitriolic nature of posts by certain posters on this topic. I only saw 1 divisive comment by an Alex supporter in this thread, and about 10 from detractors. I know it is hard, but let's show some class and decorum in discussions.

That being said, I think Valrod's point was the best: What else is there to say? He is here. He will be here this year. At the end of the year (barring a spectacular season) he will not be here. Even Nations at war call cease fires from time to time. Why can't we just let the season play out before crucifying the guy? It is obvious so far this pre-season that the real issue is the O-line. I could even accept killing Smith once he performs badly, as opposed to the nonsensical and tired historical arguments. At least the real season is about to start.

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

Originally posted by Memphis9er:
Who cares about this opinion piece? You guys get too worked up over a list based only on opinion from a guy that probably only looks at the box scores of a game. Smith hasn't even been the biggest problem. With all the high draft picks that we have seen suck and get traded or cut, I would be forced to say player development has held this team back more than any one individual player. We will see how things pan out, right now offensive line play is a bigger concern than Clayton sharing an opinion based on a less than complete in depth look at the organization in general. While no one would argue that Smith has to play better, there are players on that list that played worse than Smith last year. Everyone has a right to their opinion, in my opinion he should be in the 15-20 range.

That's where I put him. 15 - 20. I think that's realistic right now. People looking at him 28 - 32 are remembering the past. And they aren't looking at how bad our O Line is. When you get hit on step 2 of a 3 step drop something is wrong... It's Alex's fault...

As if that's such a ridiculous thing to do? The guy's got a higher recidivism rate than Ted Bundy. What's gotten three coaches fired is prognosticating that Smith's future is bright. The biggest predictor of future performance is past performance.

Originally posted by classyfan49:

Originally posted by HessianDud:
damn, that's extremely generous--especially from you!

I am certainly not a Smith Hater, but even I couldn't justify putting him above, maybe 23, being extremely generous. In that scenario you'd have to drop Henne, Hasselbeck, Garrard, Campbell, and Fitzpatrick. And I guess you could make an argument for dropping those guys, and maybe even McCoy, just because of the small sample size.

Again, not a Campbell fan, but how exactly does one justify dropping him below Alex?

like I said, you'd have to be generous to drop that many QB's in favor of Alex. IMO, Alex and Campbell are essentially the same QB, except Campbell has slightly better numbers. So in the scenario I laid out above you'd have to look at each of those quarterbacks and come up with some reason that Alex is better. In terms of Campbell, you could flip a coin, and in that scenario it came up Alex.

Originally posted by Shaj:

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

Originally posted by Memphis9er:
Who cares about this opinion piece? You guys get too worked up over a list based only on opinion from a guy that probably only looks at the box scores of a game. Smith hasn't even been the biggest problem. With all the high draft picks that we have seen suck and get traded or cut, I would be forced to say player development has held this team back more than any one individual player. We will see how things pan out, right now offensive line play is a bigger concern than Clayton sharing an opinion based on a less than complete in depth look at the organization in general. While no one would argue that Smith has to play better, there are players on that list that played worse than Smith last year. Everyone has a right to their opinion, in my opinion he should be in the 15-20 range.

That's where I put him. 15 - 20. I think that's realistic right now. People looking at him 28 - 32 are remembering the past. And they aren't looking at how bad our O Line is. When you get hit on step 2 of a 3 step drop something is wrong... It's Alex's fault...

As if that's such a ridiculous thing to do? The guy's got a higher recidivism rate than Ted Bundy. What's gotten three coaches fired is prognosticating that Smith's future is bright. The biggest predictor of future performance is past performance.

Come Shaj. Give this one up. We all will know very well soon enough. Alex Smith is not the reason Nolan and Singletary were fired. It was their own lack of ability. As poorly as Nolan treated Smith, it was his lack of offensive expertise overall that got him fired. Nolan embarrassed himself and the franchise with his actions. Sing was Nolan x2.

Predicting the future is a tricky business. Clayton says that Sam Bradford is the next elite QB. Based on what? The guy had a rating of 76 last season and clearly hit the wall in the second half. He had an offense that was custom tailored to him by Pat Shurmur. It was so limited that teams found it high school elementary to defend it (everyone except the 49ers). Now he has lost Shurmur and Clayton says he will be the "next elite." Pure speculation when history shows a different picture.

Time to give this a break.

Originally posted by Shaj:

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

Originally posted by Memphis9er:

Who cares about this opinion piece? You guys get too worked up over a list based only on opinion from a guy that probably only looks at the box scores of a game. Smith hasn't even been the biggest problem. With all the high draft picks that we have seen suck and get traded or cut, I would be forced to say player development has held this team back more than any one individual player. We will see how things pan out, right now offensive line play is a bigger concern than Clayton sharing an opinion based on a less than complete in depth look at the organization in general. While no one would argue that Smith has to play better, there are players on that list that played worse than Smith last year. Everyone has a right to their opinion, in my opinion he should be in the 15-20 range.

That's where I put him. 15 - 20. I think that's realistic right now. People looking at him 28 - 32 are remembering the past. And they aren't looking at how bad our O Line is. When you get hit on step 2 of a 3 step drop something is wrong... It's Alex's fault...

As if that's such a ridiculous thing to do? The guy's got a higher recidivism rate than Ted Bundy. What's gotten three coaches fired is prognosticating that Smith's future is bright. The biggest predictor of future performance is past performance.

I actually agree with you about going off the past, but in his recent past Smith has improved, he was ranked in the 15-20 area after last season, I do not see how he has regressed without playing yet this year, so Clayton has lost me as far as his ranking system goes. There are guys ranked higher on that list that Smith outplayed last year. I guess since everyone is entitled to their own opinion, Clayton can have his, even if it doesn't seem logical.

surprised this hasn't been locked yet.

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by HessianDud:
I think Campbell, Henne, and Hasselbeck are too high. Not sure I buy putting Josh Freeman into the elite category. In fact, I think the "elite" category is a little watered down.

I also question putting Eli and Flacco in elite as well.

Also, flatly stating Bradford is the "next elite" QB is a reach. He hit a wall as soon as opponents figured out what a small playbook he was given. He may turn out out to be elite but he didn't come close to justifying that claim last season.

I also question McCoy's ranking. He may benefit from having Shurmur as his HC in much the same way Bradford benefitted from him last year but that is all speculation.

yeah, lists like this are always kind of dumb. Based on last year alone, I'd take McCoy over McNabb. Based on their entire careers, of course you'd take McNabb over a guy who has 8 starts. How can you project that Bradford is the next great QB but that Colt McCoy is the best of the worst? I guess if you're looking just at "who will have the best season this year" its a all a crapshoot anyway.

The only "important" takeaway from this list is the bunching of elite QB's. I agree: Eli and Flacco, Freeman, Schaub, Romo are all second-tier. I just see no logic in a ranking that puts Tom Brady and Tony Romo in the same category. The only thing that makes Vick close to elite is his feet. I would say the elite QB's are, in order: Brady, Manning, Brees, Roethlisberger, Rodgers, Rivers, .... then Ryan and Vick on the bubble.

then, based on this list, all the guys from Eli to Cutler, Bradford excluded, would be the second-tier: QB's who have good numbers, who are generally winners, or who have great talent and haven't put it together yet.

Originally posted by OnTheClock:

Originally posted by backontop:

Originally posted by DonnieDarko:

Originally posted by backontop:
Kind of like when he plays well the haterexcuses roll in? Oh his 4 TD's was because the WR's and the OLine...Oh we won the game because of the defense...

when the f**k did smith throw 4td's?

didn't he throw 4TD's in the game against the Texans when he came in for Hill when he was benched? hmmmm let me google to verify my no factual facts.

Or that time when he threw for 300+ yards and 2 TDs against Seattle, despite two players dropping two perfect passes in the end zone, which ultimately cost us the game? Then it went from, "He hasn't even thrown for 300 yards before!" to "Stats don't mean anything! It's the W's! And since he didn't get the W he SUCKED that game and made us lose! He should have WILLED us to victory!" Alex is not a good QB, but when he has credit taken away from him even when he does do something good it's just ridiculous.

I'm not expecting the kid to have a great year, but even if he does manage to put up above average stats, the praise will all be passed off to others - Harbaugh, Gore, Vernon, Braylon, Crabtree, the defense, etc.

Passing the praise to our team and coaches despite Smith's incompetence is better then trashing our team in support of Smith's incompetence. If Smith does succeed it will be on his own merits. And Smith fans say if he fails its on the team and coaches?

I'm a 49er fan, not a Smith fan.

Great he had good game in Seattle that one time. And a few other showings of solid play. 85% of the time he is trash.

Originally posted by Memphis9er:

Originally posted by Shaj:

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

Originally posted by Memphis9er:
Who cares about this opinion piece? You guys get too worked up over a list based only on opinion from a guy that probably only looks at the box scores of a game. Smith hasn't even been the biggest problem. With all the high draft picks that we have seen suck and get traded or cut, I would be forced to say player development has held this team back more than any one individual player. We will see how things pan out, right now offensive line play is a bigger concern than Clayton sharing an opinion based on a less than complete in depth look at the organization in general. While no one would argue that Smith has to play better, there are players on that list that played worse than Smith last year. Everyone has a right to their opinion, in my opinion he should be in the 15-20 range.

That's where I put him. 15 - 20. I think that's realistic right now. People looking at him 28 - 32 are remembering the past. And they aren't looking at how bad our O Line is. When you get hit on step 2 of a 3 step drop something is wrong... It's Alex's fault...

As if that's such a ridiculous thing to do? The guy's got a higher recidivism rate than Ted Bundy. What's gotten three coaches fired is prognosticating that Smith's future is bright. The biggest predictor of future performance is past performance.

I actually agree with you about going off the past, but in his recent past Smith has improved, he was ranked in the 15-20 area after last season, I do not see how he has regressed without playing yet this year, so Clayton has lost me as far as his ranking system goes. There are guys ranked higher on that list that Smith outplayed last year. I guess since everyone is entitled to their own opinion, Clayton can have his, even if it doesn't seem logical.

Yeah the best way to measure a QB is his last 4/5 games which were against the NFC west. We can ignore everything else.

Originally posted by Johnster:

Originally posted by jimmy49erfan:
28 who the hell is below him? Rookies?

Actual excerpt:

27. Curtis Painter

28. Alex Smith

29. Colin Kapernick

30. Terell Pryor

31. Your local pop warner QB

32. Ryan Vogelsong

LMFAO!!!!

Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Or that time when he threw for 300+ yards and 2 TDs against Seattle, despite two players dropping two perfect passes in the end zone, which ultimately cost us the game? Then it went from, "He hasn't even thrown for 300 yards before!" to "Stats don't mean anything! It's the W's! And since he didn't get the W he SUCKED that game and made us lose! He should have WILLED us to victory!" Alex is not a good QB, but when he has credit taken away from him even when he does do something good it's just ridiculous.

I'm not expecting the kid to have a great year, but even if he does manage to put up above average stats, the praise will all be passed off to others - Harbaugh, Gore, Vernon, Braylon, Crabtree, the defense, etc.

If he puts up above average stats at least you have an argument, but 2.5 games or whatever number of games you pull out in 52 starts is not a credible argument. Pretty much everyone has their moments. See Derek Anderson. He's been below average his whole career, but the last couple he's only been slightly below average (around 19th) so I'll end there.

Personally I'm ranking him 22nd. His good performances just haven't came in criticial situations. I understand that the West is garbage and we're technically still alive at 5-8 but I'm really not going to give him much credit for mopping up on a 3-10 team.