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"Steve Young never learned how to read defenses"

Originally posted by Joecool:
How do you explain his lack of production and stats in most playoffs?

Pretty simple actually, we were playing better teams. We only beat Green Bay that year because we were getting outstanding line play.
Young kicks a**
R I C O L A

R I D I C U L O U S
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Originally posted by sincalfaithful:
Originally posted by SybErkRimInAL:
thank goodness for the,

"Jim Harbaugh Center For QB's Who Can't Read Defenses Good And Wanna Learn To Do Other Stuff Good Too"


...wanna learn to do other stuff good too

Fantastic Zoolander reference.

THIS IS A SCHOOL FOR ANTS
QBs learn to read defenses when:

1) the OLine gives them time before they are running for their lives (Tampa Bay Steve)
2) the team has an offense (a real one, not McKay, Nolan or Singletary's version)
3) they have a coach who knows how to teach them to read (Walsh/Harbaugh)
4) the receivers run correct routes so those "blind throws" are actually possible (Rice/Edwards?)
5) the QB has time to practice with the receivers...a lot!

Anyone care to guess who the offensive coordinator in Tampa Bay was when Young was there? Maybe Young and Smith have more in common than first glance would indicate.
[ Edited by dtg_9er on Aug 26, 2011 at 5:26 PM ]
  • Shemp
  • Veteran
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Originally posted by 49ersMan420:


Career passer rating of 96.8 is the highest of any QB in NFL history.


That dude should be fired from his job for being such a Douche....

Actually, if I'm not wrong, the QB we should have selected in 2005, Aaron Rodgers, has taken this title now.
Originally posted by Shaj:
Originally posted by 49ersMan420:
<object width="500" height="304" data="http://www.youtube.com/v/CSERcXpgOzQ&ap=%2526fmt%3D18&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash"><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true" /><param name="src" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/CSERcXpgOzQ&ap=%2526fmt%3D18&fs=1" /><param name="wmode" value="transparent" /><param name="allowfullscreen" value="true" /></object>

Career passer rating of 96.8 is the highest of any QB in NFL history.


That dude should be fired from his job for being such a Douche....


Actually, if I'm not wrong, the QB we should have selected in 2005, Aaron Rodgers, has taken this title now. </param>

If his career was to end now, you'd be right. Still plenty of time for him to wreck that though.
Originally posted by Shaj:
Actually, if I'm not wrong, the QB we should have selected in 2005, Aaron Rodgers, has taken this title now.

Actually, two QBs (Aaron Rodgers 98.4 and Phillip Rivers 97.2) have higher career passer ratings than Steve Young. And I highly doubt Aaron's rating would be this high had we drafted him.
Originally posted by aTx49er:
Originally posted by Shaj:
Actually, if I'm not wrong, the QB we should have selected in 2005, Aaron Rodgers, has taken this title now.

Actually, two QBs (Aaron Rodgers 98.4 and Phillip Rivers 97.2) have higher career passer ratings than Steve Young. And I highly doubt Aaron's rating would be this high had we drafted him.
Yet people say Aaron doesn't read defenses well and that he holds the ball too long.
Originally posted by Shaj:
Actually, if I'm not wrong, the QB we should have selected in 2005, Aaron Rodgers, has taken this title now.

You have to finish your career to say that....but yeah he's ahead. Of course, we're talking about a new nfl where WRs can't be bumped off their routes and QBs are treated like kickers.
Originally posted by Joecool:
Yet people say Aaron doesn't read defenses well and that he holds the ball too long.

Who? Holding the ball too long is not always related to reading defenses.
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by dtcomposer:
Yeah there were probably plenty of guys open underneath but they couldn't have scored a touchdown. I'm sure there were also some nice running room available for Young if he so desired. Come on we need to use our heads a little bit on this one. There was only one thing that would have made that play work, and it was an absolutely perfect throw. That is why the play was so great... it was covered correctly, but Young read the only place where a touchdown was possible and made a great throw. I don't see how you can look at it any other way.

Also, it is ridiculous to say that Steve Young doesn'r read defenses better than those other guys. Half of the QB's in the Hall played in an era where the reads and defenses were much simpler. The introduction of the WCO forced a defensive evolution... This is the dumbest conversation to be having and you are taking the most ridiculous position. Certainly there are better readers of the defense then Young in the Hall, but Young was no slouch and regardless it is almost impossible to truly quantify an ability to read defenses. By any statistical or anecdotal model Steve Young dissected NFL defenses like they had never been dissected before, hence his (at the time) record QB rating, and success. I would put Tom Brady, and Peyton Manning above him in the modern Era, but I can't think of another QB who did it better during his prime years (Obviously Montana was great, but I am talking about the 90's on)

How do you explain his lack of production and stats in most playoffs?

Better competition, Pressure. He had some good games and some bad games in the playoffs. the playoffs are a different animal. I remember the year Peyton Manning won the superbowl his ppersonal performance was poor in the playoffs. Peyton Mannings QB Rating is almost identical to Youngs in the playoffs. Can Peyton read defenses? Tom Brady's Rating is almost Identical to Steve Young in the postseason. Can Brady Read defenses? Take out Montana's incredible 1989 postseason and his rating is almost identical. Montana is kind of a different animal though, and I'm not trying to make a comparison between the two. Man that 89' postseason was pretty incredible.

Is that enough proof for you? Why are you trying to defend this idiot's position?
[ Edited by dtcomposer on Aug 26, 2011 at 10:22 AM ]
Originally posted by dtcomposer:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by dtcomposer:
Yeah there were probably plenty of guys open underneath but they couldn't have scored a touchdown. I'm sure there were also some nice running room available for Young if he so desired. Come on we need to use our heads a little bit on this one. There was only one thing that would have made that play work, and it was an absolutely perfect throw. That is why the play was so great... it was covered correctly, but Young read the only place where a touchdown was possible and made a great throw. I don't see how you can look at it any other way.

Also, it is ridiculous to say that Steve Young doesn'r read defenses better than those other guys. Half of the QB's in the Hall played in an era where the reads and defenses were much simpler. The introduction of the WCO forced a defensive evolution... This is the dumbest conversation to be having and you are taking the most ridiculous position. Certainly there are better readers of the defense then Young in the Hall, but Young was no slouch and regardless it is almost impossible to truly quantify an ability to read defenses. By any statistical or anecdotal model Steve Young dissected NFL defenses like they had never been dissected before, hence his (at the time) record QB rating, and success. I would put Tom Brady, and Peyton Manning above him in the modern Era, but I can't think of another QB who did it better during his prime years (Obviously Montana was great, but I am talking about the 90's on)

How do you explain his lack of production and stats in most playoffs?

Better competition, Pressure. He had some good games and some bad games in the playoffs. the playoffs are a different animal. I remember the year Peyton Manning won the superbowl his ppersonal performance was poor in the playoffs. Peyton Mannings QB Rating is almost identical to Youngs in the playoffs. Can Peyton read defenses? Tom Brady's Rating is almost Identical to Steve Young in the postseason. Can Brady Read defenses? Take out Montana's incredible 1989 postseason and his rating is almost identical. Montana is kind of a different animal though, and I'm not trying to make a comparison between the two. Man that 89' postseason was pretty incredible.

Is that enough proof for you? Why are you trying to defend this idiot's position?

Because I agree with it. I feel his ability to read defenses is over rated. Peyton Manning is a presnap QB. He heavily relies on his presnap decisions to where the ball will go and that's 100% on studying the opponent, memorizing their different looks and what they play postsnap out of those looks. This is where Steve Young was at.

Montana and Brady are different cats. They not only knew where they were going with the ball presnap, they will make that option more open by looking the defense off, by moving them around during the play. Montana's and Brady's ability to read defenses surpasses Manning/Young.

We all know Young can read defenses, but I also feel it is over rated. You say take out Montana's great playoff year and his rating will drop to what Young's was? Man, I wonder how far Young's rating drops if you take out 95? Probably far below than any of the 3 here.
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by dtcomposer:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by dtcomposer:
Yeah there were probably plenty of guys open underneath but they couldn't have scored a touchdown. I'm sure there were also some nice running room available for Young if he so desired. Come on we need to use our heads a little bit on this one. There was only one thing that would have made that play work, and it was an absolutely perfect throw. That is why the play was so great... it was covered correctly, but Young read the only place where a touchdown was possible and made a great throw. I don't see how you can look at it any other way.

Also, it is ridiculous to say that Steve Young doesn'r read defenses better than those other guys. Half of the QB's in the Hall played in an era where the reads and defenses were much simpler. The introduction of the WCO forced a defensive evolution... This is the dumbest conversation to be having and you are taking the most ridiculous position. Certainly there are better readers of the defense then Young in the Hall, but Young was no slouch and regardless it is almost impossible to truly quantify an ability to read defenses. By any statistical or anecdotal model Steve Young dissected NFL defenses like they had never been dissected before, hence his (at the time) record QB rating, and success. I would put Tom Brady, and Peyton Manning above him in the modern Era, but I can't think of another QB who did it better during his prime years (Obviously Montana was great, but I am talking about the 90's on)

How do you explain his lack of production and stats in most playoffs?

Better competition, Pressure. He had some good games and some bad games in the playoffs. the playoffs are a different animal. I remember the year Peyton Manning won the superbowl his ppersonal performance was poor in the playoffs. Peyton Mannings QB Rating is almost identical to Youngs in the playoffs. Can Peyton read defenses? Tom Brady's Rating is almost Identical to Steve Young in the postseason. Can Brady Read defenses? Take out Montana's incredible 1989 postseason and his rating is almost identical. Montana is kind of a different animal though, and I'm not trying to make a comparison between the two. Man that 89' postseason was pretty incredible.

Is that enough proof for you? Why are you trying to defend this idiot's position?

Because I agree with it. I feel his ability to read defenses is over rated. Peyton Manning is a presnap QB. He heavily relies on his presnap decisions to where the ball will go and that's 100% on studying the opponent, memorizing their different looks and what they play postsnap out of those looks. This is where Steve Young was at.

Montana and Brady are different cats. They not only knew where they were going with the ball presnap, they will make that option more open by looking the defense off, by moving them around during the play. Montana's and Brady's ability to read defenses surpasses Manning/Young.

We all know Young can read defenses, but I also feel it is over rated. You say take out Montana's great playoff year and his rating will drop to what Young's was? Man, I wonder how far Young's rating drops if you take out 95? Probably far below than any of the 3 here.

You agree that Steve young is the worst Hall of fame QB at reading defenses?(that was his position, I believe) Did you read my earlier posts about QB systems before the west coast? Please answer, because that one point blows the whole argument up. Beyond that, your definition of reading defenses is very subjective. Reading defenses includes pre and post snap. Both are important. Again you can only go off of his statistics to see how he read defenses without ridiculously detailed film study which I am sure you have not undertaken. His stats say that he correctly read defenses at a very high level.

Your opinion about Brady and Montana might be relevant, but Peyton has always been great at looking off safeties, pump fakes, and other maneuvering. Regardless of any of that I Dare you to find Hall of fame QB's who were better at reading defenses than Young since the WCO (we won't even worry about the older QB's because the offenses were different and probably not a fair comparison). If you respond to nothing else I would like you to respond to that point. I think we will find that Young, while perhaps not on the same level as Montana or Brady, Stacks up wel with QB's like Marino, Elway, Moon, Kelly, Favre, etc. (speaking also of future HOF players in some cases)

Here is the link of current HOF'ers http://www.profootballhof.com/hof/positions.aspx please tell me which QB's were definitely better at reading defenses than Young.





My point about Montana was just that his one postseason (much better ratings-wise than even Youngs 94' postseason) made a big difference. You asked me to explain why Steve's stats were lower in the playoffs and I showed you that all QB's (even those who are supposedly great at reading D) have stat drop-offs in the postseason.
[ Edited by dtcomposer on Aug 26, 2011 at 11:08 AM ]
Originally posted by dtcomposer:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by dtcomposer:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by dtcomposer:
Yeah there were probably plenty of guys open underneath but they couldn't have scored a touchdown. I'm sure there were also some nice running room available for Young if he so desired. Come on we need to use our heads a little bit on this one. There was only one thing that would have made that play work, and it was an absolutely perfect throw. That is why the play was so great... it was covered correctly, but Young read the only place where a touchdown was possible and made a great throw. I don't see how you can look at it any other way.

Also, it is ridiculous to say that Steve Young doesn'r read defenses better than those other guys. Half of the QB's in the Hall played in an era where the reads and defenses were much simpler. The introduction of the WCO forced a defensive evolution... This is the dumbest conversation to be having and you are taking the most ridiculous position. Certainly there are better readers of the defense then Young in the Hall, but Young was no slouch and regardless it is almost impossible to truly quantify an ability to read defenses. By any statistical or anecdotal model Steve Young dissected NFL defenses like they had never been dissected before, hence his (at the time) record QB rating, and success. I would put Tom Brady, and Peyton Manning above him in the modern Era, but I can't think of another QB who did it better during his prime years (Obviously Montana was great, but I am talking about the 90's on)

How do you explain his lack of production and stats in most playoffs?

Better competition, Pressure. He had some good games and some bad games in the playoffs. the playoffs are a different animal. I remember the year Peyton Manning won the superbowl his ppersonal performance was poor in the playoffs. Peyton Mannings QB Rating is almost identical to Youngs in the playoffs. Can Peyton read defenses? Tom Brady's Rating is almost Identical to Steve Young in the postseason. Can Brady Read defenses? Take out Montana's incredible 1989 postseason and his rating is almost identical. Montana is kind of a different animal though, and I'm not trying to make a comparison between the two. Man that 89' postseason was pretty incredible.

Is that enough proof for you? Why are you trying to defend this idiot's position?

Because I agree with it. I feel his ability to read defenses is over rated. Peyton Manning is a presnap QB. He heavily relies on his presnap decisions to where the ball will go and that's 100% on studying the opponent, memorizing their different looks and what they play postsnap out of those looks. This is where Steve Young was at.

Montana and Brady are different cats. They not only knew where they were going with the ball presnap, they will make that option more open by looking the defense off, by moving them around during the play. Montana's and Brady's ability to read defenses surpasses Manning/Young.

We all know Young can read defenses, but I also feel it is over rated. You say take out Montana's great playoff year and his rating will drop to what Young's was? Man, I wonder how far Young's rating drops if you take out 95? Probably far below than any of the 3 here.

You agree that Steve young is the worst Hall of fame QB at reading defenses?(that was his position, I believe) Did you read my earlier posts about QB systems before the west coast? Please answer, because that one point blows the whole argument up. Beyond that, your definition of reading defenses is very subjective. Reading defenses includes pre and post snap. Both are important. Again you can only go off of his statistics to see how he read defenses without ridiculously detailed film study which I am sure you have not undertaken. His stats say that he correctly read defenses at a very high level.

Your opinion about Brady and Montana might be relevant, but Peyton has always been great at looking off safeties, pump fakes, and other maneuvering. Regardless of any of that I Dare you to find Hall of fame QB's who were better at reading defenses than Young since the WCO (we won't even worry about the older QB's because the offenses were different and probably not a fair comparison). If you respond to nothing else I would like you to respond to that point. I think we will find that Young, while perhaps not on the same level as Montana or Brady, Stacks up wel with QB's like Marino, Elway, Moon, Kelly, Favre, etc. (speaking also of future HOF players in some cases)

Here is the link of current HOF'ers http://www.profootballhof.com/hof/positions.aspx please tell me which QB's were definitely better at reading defenses than Young.





My point about Montana was just that his one postseason (much better ratings-wise than even Youngs 94' postseason) made a big difference. You asked me to explain why Steve's stats were lower in the playoffs and I showed you that all QB's (even those who are supposedly great at reading D) have stat drop-offs in the postseason.
Let me correct myself. I don't agree with the fact that he's the worst HOF QB at reading defenses. I'm saying his ability to read defenses is over rated. Grant Napier was saying something similar but he always makes statements to the extreme.