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Who are we kidding . . .

Originally posted by Marvin49:
Ya know the fastest way to get me to stop reading a post? Change a players name in a lame attempt to be funny (Alice Smith, Michael Craptree, etc).
This
  • mike
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 1,827
Originally posted by 5280High:
Yeah, that last sentence is really where the difference of opinion lies. I can see where people are coming from with VY and dont want to come off as discounting anyones opinion while stating mine. He does have a great record as a starter... but my view is he was more the beneficiary of a great defense and running game than quality NFL level QB. Which then leads to the opinion about Kolb and not wanting him as an insurance policy, where as the trade would not have been granted if the opinion was still high on him. They initially viewed him as a franchise QB when they parted with McNabb, but he got replaced after a relatively minor injury, which usually doesnt happen as starters rarely lose their starting spots to injury once they are healthy again. He lost his job to Vick in week 3. Compared to the Brady/Bledsoe situation or the Warner/Green situation where the starter was out for half the season and the entire season respectively while the back up experienced success. The fact Reid was so quick to pull Kolb after anointing him the starter leads me to think he lost confidence in his starting abilities pretty quickly compared to Vick. Anyways now Im just beating dead horses and will move on.

They rode the hot hand, at that point kolb didn't even get to show his stuff yet. Look at vick's stats in the first 3 weeks and tell me that as a coach you would bench him when your unproven "starter" kolb is no longer hurt...No picks, 250+ yds a game, multiple td's a game...Not to mention his running abilities.

My point about VY is that he's "good enough" as a backup, with the eagles great defense, qb friendly system, and run game, to still win some low scoring games for them if he has to fill in for a game or two. Similar to the way Sanchez never really has to win games by himself, never has to throw for 300 yds or something like that.

But if ANY TEAM hopes to win the superbowl, it's with their starting quarterback. Green bay lost rodgers for a part of last season do you think they could have done it with flynn? exactly. If they plan to keep vick healthy it just means they can't let him run like he did last season, at least make him try to avoid those body breaking hits.

Other than maybe the steelers, there are very few teams that have a #2 they can confidently throw in that will still win them games.(and the steelers are another one of those teams that wins some games with their run game/defense so they require little, statistically, from the QB). If the colts lose peyton, if the pats lose brady, dallas loses romo...these teams can't expect super bowls that year. I don't care if you're a "dream team"
at the same time you could point to Vick's last 6 games and say they need as solid a #2 as they can. The eagles defense has fallen off in recent years, as shown by the rotating door of DC's since the unfortunate death of their legendary DC. Who knows how it pans out but I bet their 3rd stringer overtakes VY on the depthchart by the last preseason game.
Originally posted by Godsleftsock:
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Ya know the fastest way to get me to stop reading a post? Change a players name in a lame attempt to be funny (Alice Smith, Michael Craptree, etc).
This

Yes
Originally posted by Bali-Niner:
Originally posted by Godsleftsock:
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Ya know the fastest way to get me to stop reading a post? Change a players name in a lame attempt to be funny (Alice Smith, Michael Craptree, etc).
This

Yes

Agreed.
Originally posted by mike:
They rode the hot hand, at that point kolb didn't even get to show his stuff yet. Look at vick's stats in the first 3 weeks and tell me that as a coach you would bench him when your unproven "starter" kolb is no longer hurt...No picks, 250+ yds a game, multiple td's a game...Not to mention his running abilities.

My point about VY is that he's "good enough" as a backup, with the eagles great defense, qb friendly system, and run game, to still win some low scoring games for them if he has to fill in for a game or two. Similar to the way Sanchez never really has to win games by himself, never has to throw for 300 yds or something like that.

But if ANY TEAM hopes to win the superbowl, it's with their starting quarterback. Green bay lost rodgers for a part of last season do you think they could have done it with flynn? exactly. If they plan to keep vick healthy it just means they can't let him run like he did last season, at least make him try to avoid those body breaking hits.

Other than maybe the steelers, there are very few teams that have a #2 they can confidently throw in that will still win them games.(and the steelers are another one of those teams that wins some games with their run game/defense so they require little, statistically, from the QB). If the colts lose peyton, if the pats lose brady, dallas loses romo...these teams can't expect super bowls that year. I don't care if you're a "dream team"

Very well said. +1
Originally posted by Deodato:
Originally posted by mike:
They rode the hot hand, at that point kolb didn't even get to show his stuff yet. Look at vick's stats in the first 3 weeks and tell me that as a coach you would bench him when your unproven "starter" kolb is no longer hurt...No picks, 250+ yds a game, multiple td's a game...Not to mention his running abilities.

My point about VY is that he's "good enough" as a backup, with the eagles great defense, qb friendly system, and run game, to still win some low scoring games for them if he has to fill in for a game or two. Similar to the way Sanchez never really has to win games by himself, never has to throw for 300 yds or something like that.

But if ANY TEAM hopes to win the superbowl, it's with their starting quarterback. Green bay lost rodgers for a part of last season do you think they could have done it with flynn? exactly. If they plan to keep vick healthy it just means they can't let him run like he did last season, at least make him try to avoid those body breaking hits.

Other than maybe the steelers, there are very few teams that have a #2 they can confidently throw in that will still win them games.(and the steelers are another one of those teams that wins some games with their run game/defense so they require little, statistically, from the QB). If the colts lose peyton, if the pats lose brady, dallas loses romo...these teams can't expect super bowls that year. I don't care if you're a "dream team"

Very well said. +1

+2
Originally posted by Deodato:
This is taken from an article on yahoo I read: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2011/08/18/SPUQ1KOLJ3.DTL (In case you wanted the link)

"The acquisition of McCown, the best former Raiders-and-UFL quarterback available (sorry, Daunte Culpepper), does nothing to either enhance or detract from the conspiracy theory circulating among the Bay Area lunatic fringe.
The theory is that the 49ers have a secret plan to finish with the league's worst record and thus win the Andrew Luck lottery.
The theory is juicy because landing Luck would be an unbelievably great thing for the 49ers. They've been wandering in quarterback wilderness for a decade. And Luck would be a huge selling point for would-be stadium investors and season-ticket buyers.
But come on: That Luck conspiracy theory is absolutely ridiculous. I'm 75 percent sure of that.
You don't build a season around the rallying cry, "If we're sucky, we might get Luck-y."
Harbaugh and the 49ers would have to be crazy to shoot for that top draft pick, for two reasons:
-- If the 49ers wind up as the losingest team in football this season, after signing the hottest coaching prospect, angry fans will lose faith. They will storm team headquarters and reduce the complex to rubble. That said, if any head coach in football is emotionally equipped to ignore the critics, it's Harbaugh, whose self-esteem isn't dependent on backslapping from you or me.
-- Coming down the stretch at the end of the regular season, the Luck Lottery is going to get extremely heated. No team simply will waltz into last place in the overall standings. It will be a three- or four-team dogfight, and frankly, the 49ers might not have what it takes to out-stumble other contending clubs.
The Alex Smith/Colin Kaepernick/Josh McCown parlay isn't likely to please many fans, but realistically, how much better could the 49ers have done? Matt Hasselbeck? Getting a season out of him would be like trying to drive a '72 Chevy cross-country.
From the beginning, circumstances pushed the 49ers into a quarterback corner. There weren't any top-10-type quarterbacks available, and the draft was iffy. Snagging Kaepernick in the second round seemed like a worthwhile gamble on a quarterback of the future.
The only questionable move by Harbaugh was handing the top job to Smith, instead of bringing in some other proven mediocre quarterback who wouldn't have to carry the emotional baggage of Smith.

The reason I started the thread off with this quote is because we have lied to ourselves for far to long. There was a time when anything less than a Super Bowl win was considered a wasted season. That was the standard, period. No if and or buts about it.

Now we are a dog and pony show, with a lot of dog and pony, but zero show.

Its no secret I am not a Alice Smith fan, not in this or the next 1,000 lifetimes so there is no reason for me to go there. My gripe comes from the top quote that we would sign a QB because he knows his place. . . These are grown professional men we are talking about right.

Were is our pride, our backbone, our sense of self worth? We have a trophy case with 5 Super Bowl Trophy's and in 2011 we are being made to sound like are the Lions, who haven't won one!

I brought into the "Sing Sting" and the famous "I want winners" motto, but I truly can not say that we do at this point. Only after 1 preseason game and the Alice Smith show does Captain Comeback finally realize, whoops maybe I made a mistake. What did you miss the last 6 years of reruns?

When our new coach came in, I really hoped that he would clean house. Smith, see ya. Morgan, peace out.

Only after seeing Smith, cause he missed the last 6 years, does he say oh we need a veteran QB. We have not been aggressive in FA, pretty much the same team as under Sing minus a few players and yet people believe that we want to build a Championship team. How, I have no clue.

The Rams and Cards will battle for the West. We will be rebuilding, still, next year (yr 2 for Jimmy). 49ers are still a once proud franchise turned laughing stock.

So my question is how many faithful really believe that management wants to win a Super Bowl and build a winning team? If you believe they do please give an example as to why you believe that.

FYI - NFL HCs avg 3-4 years as a HC before they are canned if they do not show progression, division title, playoff win, etc. This year is burned, unless CK is a fast learner or Josh is . . . nvm unless CK is a REAL FAST learner.

Hope Jimmy beats the timer (I am 1000% behind him, our team and want him to succeed) he will be unemployed in 3 years...Might want to consider that new off season and FA Jimmy.
Are you trying to belittle our coach by calling him "Jimmy" on multiple occasions? I have not heard anyone else call him this and imo you're trying to make him sound childish and clueless about the situation.On that note, do you honestly believe that Harbaugh didn't watch film on Alex from the moment he was hired as our new HC? So when you say," only when Harbaugh seen him play" it just further proves your ignorance. You're piece is nothing more than a childish rant of why your panties are in a bundle. It's only preseason and you're suggesting an overhaul in next yrs offseason strategy. By chance do you remember our preseason record last yr? I do.
Ciao
Originally posted by VaNiner540:
<blockquote class="quote">Originally posted by Deodato:
This is taken from an article on yahoo I read: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2011/08/18/SPUQ1KOLJ3.DTL (In case you wanted the link)

"The acquisition of McCown, the best former Raiders-and-UFL quarterback available (sorry, Daunte Culpepper), does nothing to either enhance or detract from the conspiracy theory circulating among the Bay Area lunatic fringe.
The theory is that the 49ers have a secret plan to finish with the league's worst record and thus win the Andrew Luck lottery.
The theory is juicy because landing Luck would be an unbelievably great thing for the 49ers. They've been wandering in quarterback wilderness for a decade. And Luck would be a huge selling point for would-be stadium investors and season-ticket buyers.
But come on: That Luck conspiracy theory is absolutely ridiculous. I'm 75 percent sure of that.
You don't build a season around the rallying cry, "If we're sucky, we might get Luck-y."
Harbaugh and the 49ers would have to be crazy to shoot for that top draft pick, for two reasons:
-- If the 49ers wind up as the losingest team in football this season, after signing the hottest coaching prospect, angry fans will lose faith. They will storm team headquarters and reduce the complex to rubble. That said, if any head coach in football is emotionally equipped to ignore the critics, it's Harbaugh, whose self-esteem isn't dependent on backslapping from you or me.
-- Coming down the stretch at the end of the regular season, the Luck Lottery is going to get extremely heated. No team simply will waltz into last place in the overall standings. It will be a three- or four-team dogfight, and frankly, the 49ers might not have what it takes to out-stumble other contending clubs.
The Alex Smith/Colin Kaepernick/Josh McCown parlay isn't likely to please many fans, but realistically, how much better could the 49ers have done? Matt Hasselbeck? Getting a season out of him would be like trying to drive a '72 Chevy cross-country.
From the beginning, circumstances pushed the 49ers into a quarterback corner. There weren't any top-10-type quarterbacks available, and the draft was iffy. Snagging Kaepernick in the second round seemed like a worthwhile gamble on a quarterback of the future.
The only questionable move by Harbaugh was handing the top job to Smith, instead of bringing in some other proven mediocre quarterback who wouldn't have to carry the emotional baggage of Smith.

The reason I started the thread off with this quote is because we have lied to ourselves for far to long. There was a time when anything less than a Super Bowl win was considered a wasted season. That was the standard, period. No if and or buts about it.

Now we are a dog and pony show, with a lot of dog and pony, but zero show.

Its no secret I am not a Alice Smith fan, not in this or the next 1,000 lifetimes so there is no reason for me to go there. My gripe comes from the top quote that we would sign a QB because he knows his place. . . These are grown professional men we are talking about right.

Were is our pride, our backbone, our sense of self worth? We have a trophy case with 5 Super Bowl Trophy's and in 2011 we are being made to sound like are the Lions, who haven't won one!

I brought into the "Sing Sting" and the famous "I want winners" motto, but I truly can not say that we do at this point. Only after 1 preseason game and the Alice Smith show does Captain Comeback finally realize, whoops maybe I made a mistake. What did you miss the last 6 years of reruns?

When our new coach came in, I really hoped that he would clean house. Smith, see ya. Morgan, peace out.

Only after seeing Smith, cause he missed the last 6 years, does he say oh we need a veteran QB. We have not been aggressive in FA, pretty much the same team as under Sing minus a few players and yet people believe that we want to build a Championship team. How, I have no clue.

The Rams and Cards will battle for the West. We will be rebuilding, still, next year (yr 2 for Jimmy). 49ers are still a once proud franchise turned laughing stock.

So my question is how many faithful really believe that management wants to win a Super Bowl and build a winning team? If you believe they do please give an example as to why you believe that.

FYI - NFL HCs avg 3-4 years as a HC before they are canned if they do not show progression, division title, playoff win, etc. This year is burned, unless CK is a fast learner or Josh is . . . nvm unless CK is a REAL FAST learner.

Hope Jimmy beats the timer (I am 1000% behind him, our team and want him to succeed) he will be unemployed in 3 years...Might want to consider that new off season and FA Jimmy.
Are you trying to belittle our coach by calling him "Jimmy" on multiple occasions? I have not heard anyone else call him this and imo you're trying to make him sound childish and clueless about the situation.On that note, do you honestly believe that Harbaugh didn't watch film on Alex from the moment he was hired as our new HC? So when you say," only when Harbaugh seen him play" it just further proves your ignorance. You're piece is nothing more than a childish rant of why your panties are in a bundle. It's only preseason and you're suggesting an overhaul in next yrs offseason strategy. By chance do you remember our preseason record last yr? I do.
Ciao
Yep. Seems to be a lot of whiners round here. Not that long ago there were a lot of posters saying that no decent coach would end up here, then suddenly we got the top coaching prospect and they shut up for a while.

Seems to me, you get a good coach, you give him a bit of time. But I think a number of posters can't forgive Harbaugh for not cutting Smith. Regardless of whether it was a sensible thing to do or not.

The way it is, here.