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49ers 30 million under cap

Originally posted by drake49er:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Be patient. They have a "plan"...to not spend any money.

Lawson was only $3 million. Crazy they didn't offer that much to have him stay.

Matt Barrows @
He was not happy with the 49ers front office; did not want to return to SF ... @hudd07 Can you believe we lost Lawson over 1 year deal?

He didn't want to be here...can't force people to sign.

Oh that explains it, I thought he at least showed interest in staying. Looks like he couldn't wait to leave.
  • Amir
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 25,858
Originally posted by Dirty9er:
Originally posted by Otter:
Originally posted by NeeJ49er:
Originally posted by mcbaes72:
Originally posted by NeeJ49er:
This better not be a Dennis Erickson type of season, at least during that season we knew we didnt have the cap space to bring in any help ...but choosing to lose with a gang of cash at the teams disposal will not win over any fans

I think it's pretty safe to say that Harbaugh will be a better HC than Erickson ever was. Same as Baalke will be better than Donahue...but that's not saying much because 99% of the WZ members could've been better GMs than him (i.e. see Wilfork and R. Woods).

As for the $$$$ issue, I'd have to agree with you there.


Thank you , I am getting frustrated with the lack of production from our F.O, we should at least be shelling out some 1 year contracts to veterans to strengthen the D-Line and secondary if the big plan is to build through the draft, we cant be relying on unproven players for depth and hoping they pan out for us...we need solid players to compete, but it appears the F.O believes we will get better by subtraction

So we should just throw money at anyone because you don't want them to appear cheap? Or should we try and find the right players?

Most vets don't want 1 year contracts, they want stability just like everyone else. And there appears to be indications that Franklin will sign with us, so with him and Ray Mac resigning our D-Line seems to be set.

We still do not have a pass rush, our best CB is gone, our QB situation is as bad as it has been if not worse, we lack for any verteran presence and our OL is weak and in flux. I would never advocate "just throwing money around" but hoarding money while continuity just walks out of the door doesn't seem right either...

Dirty

Where is this "Yorks are cheap, dont spend any money" come from. They've shelled out plenty of money on FA's the past 5+ years. They're trying to get a new stadium built. They went after Nnamdi and would have shelled out 12-15M a year for him. They signed Clements to a big contract. They just paid big money to resign Willis and Davis.
  • Amir
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 25,858
Originally posted by mcbaes72:
Originally posted by drake49er:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Be patient. They have a "plan"...to not spend any money.

Lawson was only $3 million. Crazy they didn't offer that much to have him stay.

Matt Barrows @
He was not happy with the 49ers front office; did not want to return to SF ... @hudd07 Can you believe we lost Lawson over 1 year deal?

He didn't want to be here...can't force people to sign.

Oh that explains it, I thought he at least showed interest in staying. Looks like he couldn't wait to leave.

But who cares. According to Maddog, you have to make them stay.
Does anyone think that our lack of spending has anything to do with our new stadium? I mean $30 million goes a long way towards that. http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2011/06/08/price-tag-for-49ers-stadium-in-santa-clara-going-up/ The money isn't exactly flowing, naming rights aren't materializing, and even with NFL help $1Billion is a lot of scratch. I'm not trying to post conspiracies but it just seems odd that we let Clements go and didn't bring in a corner at least and that we aren't willing to strike a deal with Gore or Franklin with all this cap space. It seems that there is an opportunity for teams to save money in 11 and 12 that won't be there in 13 when the mandatory spending kicks in. What are we saving for?
It's not about throwing money at free agents. It's about acquiring players to round out your team. We need at least one established cb, a wr, a center, NT, a backup qb. We need to round out the roster.

There are deals to be had.
Originally posted by Dirty9er:
Originally posted by Otter:
Originally posted by NeeJ49er:
Originally posted by mcbaes72:
Originally posted by NeeJ49er:
This better not be a Dennis Erickson type of season, at least during that season we knew we didnt have the cap space to bring in any help ...but choosing to lose with a gang of cash at the teams disposal will not win over any fans

I think it's pretty safe to say that Harbaugh will be a better HC than Erickson ever was. Same as Baalke will be better than Donahue...but that's not saying much because 99% of the WZ members could've been better GMs than him (i.e. see Wilfork and R. Woods).

As for the $$$$ issue, I'd have to agree with you there.


Thank you , I am getting frustrated with the lack of production from our F.O, we should at least be shelling out some 1 year contracts to veterans to strengthen the D-Line and secondary if the big plan is to build through the draft, we cant be relying on unproven players for depth and hoping they pan out for us...we need solid players to compete, but it appears the F.O believes we will get better by subtraction

So we should just throw money at anyone because you don't want them to appear cheap? Or should we try and find the right players?

Most vets don't want 1 year contracts, they want stability just like everyone else. And there appears to be indications that Franklin will sign with us, so with him and Ray Mac resigning our D-Line seems to be set.

We still do not have a pass rush, our best CB is gone, our QB situation is as bad as it has been if not worse, we lack for any verteran presence and our OL is weak and in flux. I would never advocate "just throwing money around" but hoarding money while continuity just walks out of the door doesn't seem right either...

Dirty

Technically, Alex Smith is a veteran.
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Be patient. They have a "plan"...to not spend any money.

Lawson was only $3 million. Crazy we weren't able to sign him for that salary, especially with the massive cap room.

P.S. The apologists for the owners and GM on this board are starting to make me ill. Some are stating, "nobody wants to come here". False: Arizona and Seattle are signing a ton of quality players that will upgrade their team. Umenyiora stated yesterday that he would like a move to Seattle. It is a lame-brain excuse.

Others are stating, "let's let the coach figure out who is good." Silly. Each team has tape and scouts. If you don't know who is good or not good, you should drive 16-wheel trucks instead.

It really comes down to a commitment to win. And, the team is showing this season... that they really aren't hungry to win.

Apologists should be sick to their stomachs that the franchise of Walsh, DeBartolo, Policy, Montana, Rice, and Lott is a bottom-barrell team, instead of defending management relentlessly as if they are related.

Still waiting for Jed to emerge to say that we will make the playoffs. He would be ridiculed from coast to coast.

We have become a "loser" franchise. Congrats, apologists. Now, back to supporting the great Trent Baalke and Jed York.

I actually agree with most of this.
Originally posted by Amir:
Originally posted by mcbaes72:
Originally posted by drake49er:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Be patient. They have a "plan"...to not spend any money.

Lawson was only $3 million. Crazy they didn't offer that much to have him stay.

Matt Barrows @
He was not happy with the 49ers front office; did not want to return to SF ... @hudd07 Can you believe we lost Lawson over 1 year deal?

He didn't want to be here...can't force people to sign.

Oh that explains it, I thought he at least showed interest in staying. Looks like he couldn't wait to leave.

But who cares. According to Maddog, you have to make them stay.

You want to know why he wasn't happy with the 49ers front office....because they didn't offer him a contract that he wanted. It's that plain and simple. If we offered him the moon and such, he would still be a 49er and he'd talk about how great the FO is.

Now, I'm not saying that he's worth the moon (and so does most of the league considering the offer he signed). Personally, I think he's been in the wrong system. And obviously, we drafted his replacement this year. But I understand the frustration with the FO. Many of us figured we were on the cusp of the playoffs this year. With the additions of Harbaugh and a decent free agent or two, we could win this division. I don't think that's the case anymore. Hope I'm wrong.
Originally posted by Amir:
Originally posted by mcbaes72:
Originally posted by drake49er:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Be patient. They have a "plan"...to not spend any money.

Lawson was only $3 million. Crazy they didn't offer that much to have him stay.

Matt Barrows @
He was not happy with the 49ers front office; did not want to return to SF ... @hudd07 Can you believe we lost Lawson over 1 year deal?

He didn't want to be here...can't force people to sign.

Oh that explains it, I thought he at least showed interest in staying. Looks like he couldn't wait to leave.

But who cares. According to Maddog, you have to make them stay.



Obviously, you can't make people stay, but this front office is showing an inability to massage relationships. They seem to take a very hardline confrontational stance with players they are negotiating with. Total sign of a rookie FO.

It's one thing to disagree, but a lot of our guys seem to be leaving upset.

[ Edited by Oakland-Niner on Aug 2, 2011 at 08:16:48 ]
Originally posted by Montanafan11:
It's not about throwing money at free agents. It's about acquiring players to round out your team. We need at least one established cb, a wr, a center, NT, a backup qb. We need to round out the roster.

There are deals to be had.

I only agree that we need a CB.

Does Harbaugh's offense WRs or TEs? - Harbaugh probably likes the WRs he has, and I don't recall him ever having big body WRs. We have studs for TEs, and will likely focus our offense on them

How did our "new" center work out last year? - Heitmann got hurt, but Baas sure filled in nicely. Why can't Snyder do the same? We have seen he plays better on the interior than at tackle

Aren't they talking with Franklin? I hear Franklin is close to a deal, but not sure how true that is. If they get him, our DL is set for years!

How many teams run with 2 QB's? Several NFL teams run with 2 QB's. I don't like the idea of adding a QB, just to add a QB. How did Troy? Carr? Dilfer? Weinke? and all the others work out?

That being said, we should be looking for experience at CB. Everything else really isn't that necessary, but is somehow causing the WZ to flip out.
  • Otter
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 22,936
Originally posted by Dirty9er:
Originally posted by Otter:
Originally posted by NeeJ49er:
Originally posted by mcbaes72:
Originally posted by NeeJ49er:
This better not be a Dennis Erickson type of season, at least during that season we knew we didnt have the cap space to bring in any help ...but choosing to lose with a gang of cash at the teams disposal will not win over any fans

I think it's pretty safe to say that Harbaugh will be a better HC than Erickson ever was. Same as Baalke will be better than Donahue...but that's not saying much because 99% of the WZ members could've been better GMs than him (i.e. see Wilfork and R. Woods).

As for the $$$$ issue, I'd have to agree with you there.


Thank you , I am getting frustrated with the lack of production from our F.O, we should at least be shelling out some 1 year contracts to veterans to strengthen the D-Line and secondary if the big plan is to build through the draft, we cant be relying on unproven players for depth and hoping they pan out for us...we need solid players to compete, but it appears the F.O believes we will get better by subtraction

So we should just throw money at anyone because you don't want them to appear cheap? Or should we try and find the right players?

Most vets don't want 1 year contracts, they want stability just like everyone else. And there appears to be indications that Franklin will sign with us, so with him and Ray Mac resigning our D-Line seems to be set.

We still do not have a pass rush, our best CB is gone, our QB situation is as bad as it has been if not worse, we lack for any verteran presence and our OL is weak and in flux. I would never advocate "just throwing money around" but hoarding money while continuity just walks out of the door doesn't seem right either...

Dirty

I understand your frustration, I do.

Our pass rush should come from the OLBs in a 3-4, right. Lawson wasn't getting there for us. Is he better or worse than Brooks or Haralson, that's a good argument. But the OLB was addressed in the draft. I'm not sure which FA OLB were/are available and would be a better fit, and we would not have to overpay for.

Our best CB was overpaid in terms of cash/salary this year and the cap number. Once a restructure wasn't agreed to, he was cut, he wasn't going to re-sign. It would have required overpaying him again, to heal his wounded pride.

Our QB situation was screwed up by the lockout. I believe if there wasn't a lockout, Smith doesn't come back. His and Management's hands were forced, hence the 1 year deal.

Veteran presence. Losing Spikes hurt here, I agree. But we have Willis and J Smith on D, Gore and V Davis on O. There is still some leadership with the credentials that the young guys will respect.

There is a real chance this year is going to be ugly, but when you step back and look at the decisions, for the most part they make sense. I would have liked them to pursue a CB a little harder, but I agree with not overpaying for a flawed FA.
  • Amir
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 25,858
Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
Originally posted by Amir:
Originally posted by mcbaes72:
Originally posted by drake49er:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Be patient. They have a "plan"...to not spend any money.

Lawson was only $3 million. Crazy they didn't offer that much to have him stay.

Matt Barrows @
He was not happy with the 49ers front office; did not want to return to SF ... @hudd07 Can you believe we lost Lawson over 1 year deal?

He didn't want to be here...can't force people to sign.

Oh that explains it, I thought he at least showed interest in staying. Looks like he couldn't wait to leave.

But who cares. According to Maddog, you have to make them stay.



Obviously, you can't make people stay, but this front office is showing an inability to massage relationships. They seem to take a very hardline confrontational stance with players they are negotiating with. Total sign of a rookie FO.

It's one thing to disagree, but a lot of our guys seem to be leaving upset.

He got a 1 yr, 3M dollar offer. Obviously, we were not the only team in the league that did not value him. So we should have re-signed him for the sake of signing him? If he was so good, he'd have multiple teams going after him and offering him multiple year contracts.
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Originally posted by SJniner7:
Originally posted by English:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Be patient. They have a "plan"...to not spend any money.

Lawson was only $3 million. Crazy we weren't able to sign him for that salary, especially with the massive cap room.

P.S. The apologists for the owners and GM on this board are starting to make me ill. Some are stating, "nobody wants to come here". False: Arizona and Seattle are signing a ton of quality players that will upgrade their team. Umenyiora stated yesterday that he would like a move to Seattle. It is a lame-brain excuse.

Others are stating, "let's let the coach figure out who is good." Silly. Each team has tape and scouts. If you don't know who is good or not good, you should drive 16-wheel trucks instead.

It really comes down to a commitment to win. And, the team is showing this season... that they really aren't hungry to win.

Apologists should be sick to their stomachs that the franchise of Walsh, DeBartolo, Policy, Montana, Rice, and Lott is a bottom-barrell team, instead of defending management relentlessly as if they are related.

Still waiting for Jed to emerge to say that we will make the playoffs. He would be ridiculed from coast to coast.

We have become a "loser" franchise. Congrats, apologists. Now, back to supporting the great Trent Baalke and Jed York.

"Apologists"? Like, no one can have a different opinion from you without copping a stupid title? Usual webzone hysteria.


Differing opinions are fine. But, basing your argument on:
1) "nobody wants to come here because we are not a contender" is simply not true. Nine of the top 20 free egents this offseason signed with teams who had losing records in 2010;
2) Plus, the biggest need this offseason was CB, and the team dropped one starter. The remaining guys in free agency are not as good as the guy you just released. How can you defend management?
3) Plus, we have $30 million to spend. The team does not appear to have any interest in spending any of it.

Go ahead and feel bad for Trent and Jed. It is...your opinion.

The FO's patience plan looks a lot like doing nothing. It's not clear they will even bring 90 players into training camp. For what future event or point are we asked to be patient? Are they building players in some secret factory?

Should we be patient for acquiring starters from the second and third waves of FA? Baas, Spikes, Lawson, Franklin, Goldson and Clements may not be great players, but they were our starters, presumably the best at their positions that we had. That's nearly a third of our team.

Should we be patient for pre-season? Only in the third pre-season game, do "starters" play for a significant time. Will we know how good or bad the team is then? Or will the FO say again, be patient?

Do we wait for the final cuts, the best of other teams' rejects? To fill up to six starting positions? Do we wait for the regular season when it's too late to make big changes? Is this the winning stategy? The PLAN?

Is Harbaugh so golden he can improve the team by two games just to make .500 with six fewer starters? Let's just wait patiently.
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Originally posted by SJniner7:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Originally posted by Amir:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Originally posted by Amir:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Be patient. They have a "plan"...to not spend any money.

Lawson was only $3 million. Crazy they didn't offer that much to have him stay.

Dude, you even said yourself that Manny is not suited for a 3-4. So why do you now all of a sudden want him to stay?

I never said that. I said he is best utilized in a 4-3 defense. He is still better than Haralson, Brooks, Applewhite, and Briggs. He just isn't a star in the 3-4.

However, at $3 million, he is a bargain.

The Niners obviously made it clear that he wasn't in their plans. So, was he supposed to crawl back to the great one, Trent Baalke, and beg for a contract, as some would say?

Well we don't know if we did offer him that much money. Maybe he just wanted out. Can't blame Baalke yet without knowing all the facts.

Yes, you can. You make people want to stay.

Jeez MD, normally I like reading your posts because they are thought-provoking blurbs on the state of the franchise. Recently though, it seems as if you have taken a "I hate the Yorks" approach that SanDiego49er has emphasized for years.

Two reasons I am angry.

First, Jed trots out and says we make the playoffs last year. This offseason, there is no commitment to win. That has been seen in free agency.

Second, the amount of hand-wringing on behalf of Baalke on this board is a joke. Trent, do your job! If you can't handle it, move over. The "be patient", "we have a plan" is an insult.

Your right Jed should of come out and said "Look guys my dad still sucks and has the check book, our last GM was an alcoholic and quit on the job after promoting a coach that didn't have a clue about modern football... lets not get optimistic about this coming season k"

On Baalke's plan, get over it. He didnt suit your(and half of NT) ego's needs this FA, and thats why youre mad. To be successful in anything you have to stick to what you believe in, not fold like a b*tch to a bunch of whiny fans. There is a "my way or the highway" tone to allot of your posts... which would insinuate that you yourself stick to your convictions, yet youre gonna trash ownership for sticking to theirs. The have been instances where you were skeptical about certain players one season and trash the FO for not bringing a vet replacement (ie: Baas). Now you're criticising the FO for not matching a ludacris offer. The only thing that changed was that the Niners played out the season and it turned out Baas can play.

This goes for all the fans who have nothing to do but complain, let the season play out and everyone might be surprised. Or maybe your fantasies of having a sh*tty football come to fruition and you can say "I told you so." Congrats, for making the prediction that a 6-10 team with a transitioning QB and a new head coach might have to get a little worse before they get better, groundbreaking!

Call me an apologist, or whatever. If fans wanna bag on the Yorks go ahead, there is a track record of ineptitude there. But to lump in Baalke after one year (and now some are even ragging on Harbaugh before he's coached a single game) after taking over a crap situation without acknowledging his successes is BS. None of this makes any difference, haters gonna hate.
Originally posted by Amir:
Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
Originally posted by Amir:
Originally posted by mcbaes72:
Originally posted by drake49er:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Be patient. They have a "plan"...to not spend any money.

Lawson was only $3 million. Crazy they didn't offer that much to have him stay.

Matt Barrows @
He was not happy with the 49ers front office; did not want to return to SF ... @hudd07 Can you believe we lost Lawson over 1 year deal?

He didn't want to be here...can't force people to sign.

Oh that explains it, I thought he at least showed interest in staying. Looks like he couldn't wait to leave.

But who cares. According to Maddog, you have to make them stay.



Obviously, you can't make people stay, but this front office is showing an inability to massage relationships. They seem to take a very hardline confrontational stance with players they are negotiating with. Total sign of a rookie FO.

It's one thing to disagree, but a lot of our guys seem to be leaving upset.

He got a 1 yr, 3M dollar offer. Obviously, we were not the only team in the league that did not value him. So we should have re-signed him for the sake of signing him? If he was so good, he'd have multiple teams going after him and offering him multiple year contracts.

I really get frustrated with the "every other team" arguments. Every other team passed on Deason Jackson almost twice. Every other team let Joe Montana slip to the 3rd. Every other team let Tom Brady fall to the 6th round. And the list goes on and on. Every other team thought Banta Cain was garbage, but he was a double digit sack guy in NE. Who knows why teams do what they do. But the every other team argument is faulty at best. I could just as easily say that every thing this FO has done has resulted in losing the last eigh years, so they must be making mistakes right now? The track record is in my favor, not yours.

[ Edited by Oakland-Niner on Aug 2, 2011 at 08:25:43 ]