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The Official Harbaugh Era QB competition!

Originally posted by NineFourNiner:
Originally posted by JayBee:

JayBee: Alex has some serious issues with his accuracy
Alex supporter: Well, his receivers suck and he had the worst HC in league history.

It's so awesome how you're unable to see the people who absolve him of bad play yet are able to see those who blame everything wrong with the team on him.

This is a losing battle anyways, I'm not going to namedrop and get myself banned. I'll gracefully bow out of this argument.

Reality:

JayBee: Alex has some serious issues with his accuracy.
Response: True, he could have been more accurate. However, his receivers and coaches share some blame for poor planning and poor execution. For example, having a well thrown pass bounce off of your hands is inexcusable.

Your entire argument is a construct of your own imagination: NO ONE absolves him 100%.
Thank you. I will let your response answer the question JayBee asked me above.

As to his accuracy; we have certainly seen some times when an errant pass was definitely Alex' fault. However, there have also been multiple times when it was clear a receiver broke off a pattern and the pass was not catchable.

My position is simple: Until I see a coach with a clear offensive philosophy and the ability to teach and demand it of ALL the offensive players, I refuse to put even 50% of the blame on any one player, be that player Alex, or Crabtree or the RT or the LT or the RG, whoever.
Originally posted by Memphis9er:
Originally posted by JayBee:
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by BETTERDAYZ9ERS:
I've read this book every year for the last 5 years. The ending is still the same.
No it isn't. Nolan and Sing and their incompetent band of coaches are gone. THAT is what was here for 5 years with very little change.

If that is your position, then why waste the time and money to hire Harbaugh. If it was all about the quarterback, then Harbaugh is a waste. He won't be able to do any more with Kaep than Nolan/Sing did with Troy, Alex, Carr, Rattay, JTO, and friends.

Question...

During Nolan and Sing's reign....All the QB's that we have seen on this roster over 6 years. Were any of them quality players?

You can crap on Nolan and Sing as much as you want...but the QB's that were either signed, traded for or drafted have all been sub par. Bad coaching has nothing to do with it. If you're a poor QB, you're a poor QB.

Question to you...

Explain the case of Steve Young? He was God-awful until he had a good coach and better talent around him, why do you think that was?

You couldn't even answer my question.

As far as Steve Young....I'm NOT of the opinion that the difference between a poor QB and a good one is coaching. No frigging way.

Comparing Steve's 16 or so games on one of the worst NFL teams in history to Alex's 60 or so games is blasphemous and you should be ashamed of yourself.

I guess the difference between Ryan Leaf and Peyton Manning was coaching, huh? Yall kill me.
Originally posted by dtcomposer:
Originally posted by JayBee:
Originally posted by NineFourNiner:
Originally posted by JayBee:
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Originally posted by bigmike55:
When has Alex Smith ever had a "great" year??? history will repeat itself and Alex will struggle once again. He has shown time and time again that he does not have what it takes to be great in this league. He is barely mediocre... For a number one overall draft pick that supposed to be our franchise guy, Alex Smith has proven he is a bust.

I see this web zone hoping that he will finally get it and turn things around year after year, saying this is his breakout year... He has a good head coach now, he has the same coordinator for two consecutive years... Blah blah blah... Wake up people! It's Alex Smith we're talking about! This will be his 7th year and he hasn't done squat!! Matt maiocco said it best in his recent article, the only reason Alex Smith is still hanging around is because of this damn lockout.

There are two reasons not to go with you on your assumptions: 1) We see things differently as the OCs, HCs, systems, injuries, and inept line and WRs actually are factors in Smith's failure; 2) Giving up is not a good plan for next year if you are a fan. I would rather hope for the best and will not be in dispair if it doesn't happen.

Smith is hanging around because Harbaugh doesn't want to start a rookie or David Carr, not because of the lockout. FAs are out there but there is no gaurantee that they are better than Smith and why not do both--keep Smith and bring in a good FA? Your negativity leads no where except change for the sake of change...not a plan for improvement.

Keep thinking that.

The only reason why Alex is still here is because of the lockout. That is the ONLY reason.

To some, Alex will never be at fault for his poor play. It will always be someone else's fault.

He is the only QB in NFL history to have a bad line, bad coaching, bad team, etc.

Who ARE these strawmen you refer to?

I've never heard anyone here place ZERO blame on Smith. I have seen people place ALL the blame on him, however.

Reality is somewhere in the middle: Smith has not performed as he should have. Some of that is due to outside factors, while some of it is his fault.

Example:

JayBee: Alex has some serious issues with his accuracy
Alex supporter: Well, his receivers suck and he had the worst HC in league history.

It's so awesome how you're unable to see the people who absolve him of bad play yet are able to see those who blame everything wrong with the team on him.

This is a losing battle anyways, I'm not going to namedrop and get myself banned. I'll gracefully bow out of this argument.

HAHA!!! refuting the straw-man argument with another straw-man argument. That is classic...

From a mod at that.

I'll go one further and say if a thread was created with the title "Hypothetically Seaking: If Alex Smith flounders in 2011..."

It wouldn't last 5 minutes.
Originally posted by NinerPrideinNJ:
Hypothetically speaking, I could be the 49ers QB in 2012.

Yeah according to some members here, Bill Walsh could have made a bunch of rag tag zoners into a super bowl team with good coaching.

At some point, physical and mental football skills have something to do with how far you can go. Smith doesn't have it. Its clear by his putrid W/L record and even stinkier stats.

Yeah its a team sport, but a team is only as strong as its weak links. In the offense, you can clearly point to weak links. Kwame Harris, Sing, Raye, Rachal, AD, Alex Smith have all shown signs of being a weak link. We've also had guys like Larry Allen, Gore, VD, Martz, Turner, McCarthy, Crabs, Ginn, A. Bryant, Jennings, Harvey Dahl, J. Smiley, Iupati, Heitmann and Baass during Smith's tenure. Those guys aren't as bad as people make them out to be to defend Alex Smith.

Sing was fired, Raye was fired, Rachal is gone, Kwame is gone,and AD will get a few more chances. What more is needed for people to see that A. Smith isn't a very good QB?

Independent of the team, the QB has the most chances in a game to make plays to help us win. A. Smith hasn't done that for us in a weak ass division. If Rivers were on our team we would dominate this crap division.
[ Edited by Young2Rice on Jul 6, 2011 at 2:38 PM ]
Originally posted by Young2Rice:
Originally posted by NinerPrideinNJ:
Hypothetically speaking, I could be the 49ers QB in 2012.

Yeah according to some members here, Bill Walsh could have made a bunch of rag tag zoners into a super bowl team with good coaching.

At some point, physical and mental football skills have something to do with how far you can go. Smith doesn't have it. Its clear by his putrid W/L record and even stinkier stats.

Yeah its a team sport, but a team is only as strong as its weak links. In the offense, you can clearly point to weak links. Kwame Harris, Sing, Raye, Rachal, AD, Alex Smith have all shown signs of being a weak link.

Sing was fired, Raye was fired, Rachal is gone, Kwame is gone,and AD will get a few more chances. What more is needed for people to see that A. Smith isn't a very good QB?

Independent of the team, the QB has the most chances in the game to make plays to help us win. A. Smith hasn't done that for us, EVER.





Uh oh you forgot how awesome Smith looked in the last game. Youre gonna be accused of inciting too. Theres to much reality with what you posted. Please dont do it again k thanx
Originally posted by DaFaro49ers:
Lets say that this newly refound leader, one by the name of Alex Smith has a successful 2011 campaign under harbaugh as the Qb of our SF 49ERS. We spent a 2nd round pick on the future successor in Colin K. So now my question is, Alex Smith is getting ready to sign a 1yr contract around 5 Million dollars.

So here is where we go to that...oh ohhh, what do we do now:

So if Alex Smith puts up good/great numbers, gets us to the playoffs at 9-7 persay under harbaughs 1st yr. What do we doo?

-Extend His contract
-Trade him at high value and go with CK
-Trade CK for a future first round pick



What would you do? This would actually be a very good scenario to ponder, at the end of the day.

Just because we go 9-7 and make the playoffs, it would take more than that. Was it because Alex had good numbers (say 28/14/+3000 TD/INT/Yds) and did well against the better competition (I hate when people use the last game against the Cards as a borameter-stupid). Was it because Harbaugh made him look good and kept him from looking bad? I wouldn't franchise him, but if he was a starter and signed with another team, depending on his QB ranking, we would get compensation if he signs with another team and we signed lesser talent.

To me great year means NFC Championship game and he was competitive and not...well Alex.
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Originally posted by JayBee:




I'll go one further and say if a thread was created with the title "Hypothetically Seaking: If Alex Smith flounders in 2011..."

It wouldn't last 5 minutes.

All of these Smith threads are the same. It's the same tired arguments repeated over and over ad nauseum.

Your hypothetical thread would get locked as there is nothing to discuss. He was offered a 1 year contract, if he flounders, I'd wager he wouldn't be offered another.

My opinion is this thread should be locked. But there are enough people that want to continue insulting each other ignoring anything but their own preconceived opinions and continue racking up the warnings. We're trying to give the people what they want.
Originally posted by Young2Rice:
Originally posted by NinerPrideinNJ:
Hypothetically speaking, I could be the 49ers QB in 2012.

Yeah according to some members here, Bill Walsh could have made a bunch of rag tag zoners into a super bowl team with good coaching.

At some point, physical and mental football skills have something to do with how far you can go. Smith doesn't have it. Its clear by his putrid W/L record and even stinkier stats.

Yeah its a team sport, but a team is only as strong as its weak links. In the offense, you can clearly point to weak links. Kwame Harris, Sing, Raye, Rachal, AD, Alex Smith have all shown signs of being a weak link. We've also had guys like Larry Allen,
clearly over the hill. Got one Pro-Bowl bid based on rep not performance
Quote:
Gore,
nice player
Quote:
VD,
did little to justify his draft pick until Singletary took over, even then he STILL has not learned to read defenses and adjust routes
Quote:
Martz,
Smith was injured
Quote:
Turner,
we all agree Smith improved under Turner
Quote:
McCarthy,
no talent team consider weaker than first year expansion Houston Texans
Quote:
Crabs,
let's not be silly. If he retired today he would be considered a BIG bust
Quote:
Ginn,
Miami gave up on him for a 5th round draft pick - that is NOT the definition of a good player. Other than a handful of kick returns he has done nothing.
Quote:
A. Bryant,
one half decent but disruptive season. Had one other decent year and nothing
Quote:
Jennings,
the post child for overpaid FAs
Quote:
Harvey Dahl,
wasn't getting PT when Smith was here
Quote:
J. Smiley,
could have been a much more valuable player but injuries and gross misuse limited his contribution
Quote:
Iupati,
began to show his draft value in the second half of the year
Quote:
Heitmann
was best OL during his healthy time but has not been healthy since when? and
Quote:
Baas
clearly struggled in blocking calls in the first half of the year. Came back to play better in second half. Will be retained due to Heitmann's injuries but not for reason of his own performance
Quote:
during Smith's tenure. Those guys aren't as bad as people make them out to be to defend Alex Smith.

Sing was fired, Raye was fired, Rachal is gone, Kwame is gone,and AD will get a few more chances. What more is needed for people to see that A. Smith isn't a very good QB?

Independent of the team, the QB has the most chances in a game to make plays to help us win. A. Smith hasn't done that for us in a weak ass division. If Rivers were on our team we would dominate this crap division.
If you truly believe all this team needs is Philip Rivers then I have lost a little respect for your credibility.

This offense needs a RG, a LT, a healthy LT, a TE that can read and adjust, WRs that can run good routes and get separation...and then we come to a defense that can't rush the passer or defend against the pass. Other than that, yes, this team could dominate.
Originally posted by JayBee:
Originally posted by dtcomposer:
Originally posted by JayBee:
Originally posted by NineFourNiner:
Originally posted by JayBee:
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Originally posted by bigmike55:
When has Alex Smith ever had a "great" year??? history will repeat itself and Alex will struggle once again. He has shown time and time again that he does not have what it takes to be great in this league. He is barely mediocre... For a number one overall draft pick that supposed to be our franchise guy, Alex Smith has proven he is a bust.

I see this web zone hoping that he will finally get it and turn things around year after year, saying this is his breakout year... He has a good head coach now, he has the same coordinator for two consecutive years... Blah blah blah... Wake up people! It's Alex Smith we're talking about! This will be his 7th year and he hasn't done squat!! Matt maiocco said it best in his recent article, the only reason Alex Smith is still hanging around is because of this damn lockout.

There are two reasons not to go with you on your assumptions: 1) We see things differently as the OCs, HCs, systems, injuries, and inept line and WRs actually are factors in Smith's failure; 2) Giving up is not a good plan for next year if you are a fan. I would rather hope for the best and will not be in dispair if it doesn't happen.

Smith is hanging around because Harbaugh doesn't want to start a rookie or David Carr, not because of the lockout. FAs are out there but there is no gaurantee that they are better than Smith and why not do both--keep Smith and bring in a good FA? Your negativity leads no where except change for the sake of change...not a plan for improvement.

Keep thinking that.

The only reason why Alex is still here is because of the lockout. That is the ONLY reason.

To some, Alex will never be at fault for his poor play. It will always be someone else's fault.

He is the only QB in NFL history to have a bad line, bad coaching, bad team, etc.

Who ARE these strawmen you refer to?

I've never heard anyone here place ZERO blame on Smith. I have seen people place ALL the blame on him, however.

Reality is somewhere in the middle: Smith has not performed as he should have. Some of that is due to outside factors, while some of it is his fault.

Example:

JayBee: Alex has some serious issues with his accuracy
Alex supporter: Well, his receivers suck and he had the worst HC in league history.

It's so awesome how you're unable to see the people who absolve him of bad play yet are able to see those who blame everything wrong with the team on him.

This is a losing battle anyways, I'm not going to namedrop and get myself banned. I'll gracefully bow out of this argument.

HAHA!!! refuting the straw-man argument with another straw-man argument. That is classic...

From a mod at that.

I'll go one further and say if a thread was created with the title "Hypothetically Seaking: If Alex Smith flounders in 2011..."

It wouldn't last 5 minutes.

How so? I did not make a strawman argument.
Originally posted by NineFourNiner:
Originally posted by JayBee:
Originally posted by dtcomposer:
Originally posted by JayBee:
Originally posted by NineFourNiner:
Originally posted by JayBee:
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Originally posted by bigmike55:
When has Alex Smith ever had a "great" year??? history will repeat itself and Alex will struggle once again. He has shown time and time again that he does not have what it takes to be great in this league. He is barely mediocre... For a number one overall draft pick that supposed to be our franchise guy, Alex Smith has proven he is a bust.

I see this web zone hoping that he will finally get it and turn things around year after year, saying this is his breakout year... He has a good head coach now, he has the same coordinator for two consecutive years... Blah blah blah... Wake up people! It's Alex Smith we're talking about! This will be his 7th year and he hasn't done squat!! Matt maiocco said it best in his recent article, the only reason Alex Smith is still hanging around is because of this damn lockout.

There are two reasons not to go with you on your assumptions: 1) We see things differently as the OCs, HCs, systems, injuries, and inept line and WRs actually are factors in Smith's failure; 2) Giving up is not a good plan for next year if you are a fan. I would rather hope for the best and will not be in dispair if it doesn't happen.

Smith is hanging around because Harbaugh doesn't want to start a rookie or David Carr, not because of the lockout. FAs are out there but there is no gaurantee that they are better than Smith and why not do both--keep Smith and bring in a good FA? Your negativity leads no where except change for the sake of change...not a plan for improvement.

Keep thinking that.

The only reason why Alex is still here is because of the lockout. That is the ONLY reason.

To some, Alex will never be at fault for his poor play. It will always be someone else's fault.

He is the only QB in NFL history to have a bad line, bad coaching, bad team, etc.

Who ARE these strawmen you refer to?

I've never heard anyone here place ZERO blame on Smith. I have seen people place ALL the blame on him, however.

Reality is somewhere in the middle: Smith has not performed as he should have. Some of that is due to outside factors, while some of it is his fault.

Example:

JayBee: Alex has some serious issues with his accuracy
Alex supporter: Well, his receivers suck and he had the worst HC in league history.

It's so awesome how you're unable to see the people who absolve him of bad play yet are able to see those who blame everything wrong with the team on him.

This is a losing battle anyways, I'm not going to namedrop and get myself banned. I'll gracefully bow out of this argument.

HAHA!!! refuting the straw-man argument with another straw-man argument. That is classic...

From a mod at that.

I'll go one further and say if a thread was created with the title "Hypothetically Seaking: If Alex Smith flounders in 2011..."

It wouldn't last 5 minutes.

How so? I did not make a strawman argument.

Well, Sorry JAybee, but I was referring to your straw man argument.

Step 1: you made this comment
Quote:
To some, Alex will never be at fault for his poor play. It will always be someone else's fault.

This is a classic straw-man argument: i.e. - You make up an invisible enemy who is way more extreme than the real ones.

Step 2 : you were called on this (correctly) by a Mod.


Step 3: You made ANOTHER straw-man argument to defend your first one:
Quote:
Example:

JayBee: Alex has some serious issues with his accuracy
Alex supporter: Well, his receivers suck and he had the worst HC in league history.

It's so awesome how you're unable to see the people who absolve him of bad play

This is a straw-man argument for the same reasons as above. YOU are the one who has the 100% extreme view most of the time, and when people are anything less than 100% against Smith you attack. You create a false premise that there are other people like you on the other side. I challenge you to find one person that blames everyone but Smith. It simply doesn't happen.

Step 4: You misunderstood my post.

No hard feelings though. I feel like arguments with certain genres of posters on here get out of hand sometimes because of a simple lack of reading comprehension when one certain QB is involved.
^ I thought that is what you meant, but did not want to put words in your mouth. Thanks for clarifying.
I think if he disappoints this year, there not going to resign him and just move on with ck
Originally posted by JayBee:
Originally posted by dtcomposer:
Originally posted by JayBee:
Originally posted by NineFourNiner:
Originally posted by JayBee:
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Originally posted by bigmike55:
When has Alex Smith ever had a "great" year??? history will repeat itself and Alex will struggle once again. He has shown time and time again that he does not have what it takes to be great in this league. He is barely mediocre... For a number one overall draft pick that supposed to be our franchise guy, Alex Smith has proven he is a bust.

I see this web zone hoping that he will finally get it and turn things around year after year, saying this is his breakout year... He has a good head coach now, he has the same coordinator for two consecutive years... Blah blah blah... Wake up people! It's Alex Smith we're talking about! This will be his 7th year and he hasn't done squat!! Matt maiocco said it best in his recent article, the only reason Alex Smith is still hanging around is because of this damn lockout.

There are two reasons not to go with you on your assumptions: 1) We see things differently as the OCs, HCs, systems, injuries, and inept line and WRs actually are factors in Smith's failure; 2) Giving up is not a good plan for next year if you are a fan. I would rather hope for the best and will not be in dispair if it doesn't happen.

Smith is hanging around because Harbaugh doesn't want to start a rookie or David Carr, not because of the lockout. FAs are out there but there is no gaurantee that they are better than Smith and why not do both--keep Smith and bring in a good FA? Your negativity leads no where except change for the sake of change...not a plan for improvement.

Keep thinking that.

The only reason why Alex is still here is because of the lockout. That is the ONLY reason.

To some, Alex will never be at fault for his poor play. It will always be someone else's fault.

He is the only QB in NFL history to have a bad line, bad coaching, bad team, etc.

Who ARE these strawmen you refer to?

I've never heard anyone here place ZERO blame on Smith. I have seen people place ALL the blame on him, however.

Reality is somewhere in the middle: Smith has not performed as he should have. Some of that is due to outside factors, while some of it is his fault.

Example:

JayBee: Alex has some serious issues with his accuracy
Alex supporter: Well, his receivers suck and he had the worst HC in league history.

It's so awesome how you're unable to see the people who absolve him of bad play yet are able to see those who blame everything wrong with the team on him.

This is a losing battle anyways, I'm not going to namedrop and get myself banned. I'll gracefully bow out of this argument.

HAHA!!! refuting the straw-man argument with another straw-man argument. That is classic...

From a mod at that.

I'll go one further and say if a thread was created with the title "Hypothetically Seaking: If Alex Smith flounders in 2011..."

It wouldn't last 5 minutes.

He was talking about you.
[ Edited by LA9erFan on Jul 6, 2011 at 5:10 PM ]
Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Originally posted by JayBee:
Originally posted by dtcomposer:
Originally posted by JayBee:
Originally posted by NineFourNiner:
Originally posted by JayBee:
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Originally posted by bigmike55:
When has Alex Smith ever had a "great" year??? history will repeat itself and Alex will struggle once again. He has shown time and time again that he does not have what it takes to be great in this league. He is barely mediocre... For a number one overall draft pick that supposed to be our franchise guy, Alex Smith has proven he is a bust.

I see this web zone hoping that he will finally get it and turn things around year after year, saying this is his breakout year... He has a good head coach now, he has the same coordinator for two consecutive years... Blah blah blah... Wake up people! It's Alex Smith we're talking about! This will be his 7th year and he hasn't done squat!! Matt maiocco said it best in his recent article, the only reason Alex Smith is still hanging around is because of this damn lockout.

There are two reasons not to go with you on your assumptions: 1) We see things differently as the OCs, HCs, systems, injuries, and inept line and WRs actually are factors in Smith's failure; 2) Giving up is not a good plan for next year if you are a fan. I would rather hope for the best and will not be in dispair if it doesn't happen.

Smith is hanging around because Harbaugh doesn't want to start a rookie or David Carr, not because of the lockout. FAs are out there but there is no gaurantee that they are better than Smith and why not do both--keep Smith and bring in a good FA? Your negativity leads no where except change for the sake of change...not a plan for improvement.

Keep thinking that.

The only reason why Alex is still here is because of the lockout. That is the ONLY reason.

To some, Alex will never be at fault for his poor play. It will always be someone else's fault.

He is the only QB in NFL history to have a bad line, bad coaching, bad team, etc.

Who ARE these strawmen you refer to?

I've never heard anyone here place ZERO blame on Smith. I have seen people place ALL the blame on him, however.

Reality is somewhere in the middle: Smith has not performed as he should have. Some of that is due to outside factors, while some of it is his fault.

Example:

JayBee: Alex has some serious issues with his accuracy
Alex supporter: Well, his receivers suck and he had the worst HC in league history.

It's so awesome how you're unable to see the people who absolve him of bad play yet are able to see those who blame everything wrong with the team on him.

This is a losing battle anyways, I'm not going to namedrop and get myself banned. I'll gracefully bow out of this argument.

HAHA!!! refuting the straw-man argument with another straw-man argument. That is classic...

From a mod at that.

I'll go one further and say if a thread was created with the title "Hypothetically Seaking: If Alex Smith flounders in 2011..."

It wouldn't last 5 minutes.

He was talking about you.

Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by NineFourNiner:
Originally posted by JayBee:

JayBee: Alex has some serious issues with his accuracy
Alex supporter: Well, his receivers suck and he had the worst HC in league history.

It's so awesome how you're unable to see the people who absolve him of bad play yet are able to see those who blame everything wrong with the team on him.

This is a losing battle anyways, I'm not going to namedrop and get myself banned. I'll gracefully bow out of this argument.

Reality:

JayBee: Alex has some serious issues with his accuracy.
Response: True, he could have been more accurate. However, his receivers and coaches share some blame for poor planning and poor execution. For example, having a well thrown pass bounce off of your hands is inexcusable.

Your entire argument is a construct of your own imagination: NO ONE absolves him 100%.
Thank you. I will let your response answer the question JayBee asked me above.

As to his accuracy; we have certainly seen some times when an errant pass was definitely Alex' fault. However, there have also been multiple times when it was clear a receiver broke off a pattern and the pass was not catchable.

My position is simple: Until I see a coach with a clear offensive philosophy and the ability to teach and demand it of ALL the offensive players, I refuse to put even 50% of the blame on any one player, be that player Alex, or Crabtree or the RT or the LT or the RG, whoever.

I find it funny how he just ignores a valid point....