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Patrick Willis #23 on NFL countdown

Originally posted by Harbaugh52:
Originally posted by asyouwere:
23 my ACE!!! thats not fair to judge him because alot of his supporting cast sucks! willis gives 100% every week, and is the best defender in the league period!!!

I'd take Asomugha over him


What??? f**k no! Willis hasn't peaked yet and Namdi has. Imo Willis is A LOT better.
Originally posted by pelos21:
Originally posted by Harbaugh52:
Originally posted by asyouwere:
23 my ACE!!! thats not fair to judge him because alot of his supporting cast sucks! willis gives 100% every week, and is the best defender in the league period!!!

I'd take Asomugha over him


What??? f**k no! Willis hasn't peaked yet and Namdi has. Imo Willis is A LOT better.

Id take an elite cornerback over an elite Middle Linebacker
Originally posted by pelos21:
Originally posted by Harbaugh52:
Originally posted by asyouwere:
23 my ACE!!! thats not fair to judge him because alot of his supporting cast sucks! willis gives 100% every week, and is the best defender in the league period!!!

I'd take Asomugha over him


What??? f**k no! Willis hasn't peaked yet and Namdi has. Imo Willis is A LOT better.

Id take an elite cornerback over an elite Middle Linebacker
Originally posted by pelos21:
Originally posted by Harbaugh52:
Originally posted by asyouwere:
23 my ACE!!! thats not fair to judge him because alot of his supporting cast sucks! willis gives 100% every week, and is the best defender in the league period!!!

I'd take Asomugha over him


What??? f**k no! Willis hasn't peaked yet and Namdi has. Imo Willis is A LOT better.

Id take an elite cornerback over an elite Middle Linebacker
Originally posted by pelos21:
Originally posted by Harbaugh52:
Originally posted by asyouwere:
23 my ACE!!! thats not fair to judge him because alot of his supporting cast sucks! willis gives 100% every week, and is the best defender in the league period!!!

I'd take Asomugha over him


What??? f**k no! Willis hasn't peaked yet and Namdi has. Imo Willis is A LOT better.

Id take an elite cornerback over an elite Middle Linebacker
Originally posted by Harbaugh52:
Originally posted by pelos21:
Originally posted by Harbaugh52:
Originally posted by asyouwere:
23 my ACE!!! thats not fair to judge him because alot of his supporting cast sucks! willis gives 100% every week, and is the best defender in the league period!!!

I'd take Asomugha over him


What??? f**k no! Willis hasn't peaked yet and Namdi has. Imo Willis is A LOT better.

Id take an elite cornerback over an elite Middle Linebacker

Hey would you take an elite cornerback over an elite Middle Linebacker?
Originally posted by WRATHman44:
Originally posted by andes14:
Originally posted by gold49er2183:
Originally posted by andes14:
Originally posted by andes14:
Holy s**t, one of the following guys was not considered one of the top-100 players:

Fitzgerald
Rodgers
Woodson
Matthews
Peterson
Hutchinson
Peppers
Brees
Freeney
Vick
Ware
Asomugha
Lewis
Reed
Ngata
Polamalu
C. Johnson
Manning
A. Johnson
Brady
Revis



Which one could it be???

Anyone got any guesses? I'm truly baffled.

Hutchinson

And yet, he has a more impressive resume than everyone else listed except Brady, Manning, and MAYBE Polamalu/Reed. Even if he sucked last year (which he definitely did not), if McNabb can make it because of career body of work (when he REALLY sucked last year), how the hell can Hutchinson not when his career body of work is even better (MUCH better) AND when last year he was also way better? I've never seen something make so little sense...

This might just be me, but I think that Hutchinson's past play is more impressive than his current production. Interior linemen don't get the credit that Tackles do, and linemen don't get as much recognition as as the guys who are running all over and playing in close proximity to the football. On top of all that, the Vikings sucked this year, and you know All Day is already up there.
...as someone noted before, this rating appears to be a mish-mash of "what have you done for me lately?" and "OMG! I watched you when I was growing up!" Most guys don't remember the linemen they watched growing up (or played in Madden).

Even still, there'd be no excuse to not have him on this list, but have Romo or Austin or Colston or Leach or Lloyd, etc. on it
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Originally posted by andes14:
Originally posted by Harbaugh52:
Originally posted by pelos21:
Originally posted by Harbaugh52:
Originally posted by asyouwere:
23 my ACE!!! thats not fair to judge him because alot of his supporting cast sucks! willis gives 100% every week, and is the best defender in the league period!!!

I'd take Asomugha over him


What??? f**k no! Willis hasn't peaked yet and Namdi has. Imo Willis is A LOT better.

Id take an elite cornerback over an elite Middle Linebacker

Hey would you take an elite cornerback over an elite Middle Linebacker?

Can't believe he said he would want an elite slot receiver over an elite outside linebacker.
Ok ok I believe you. But for reals, right now you'd take Namdi over Willis? Namdi is like 28-29 isn't he? Corners depend on the DL to provide quick pressure. Without that, even Deon wouldn't hang. MLBs depend on the DL too but not as much. Imo as a DL it's easier to stop lineman from getting to the lbers than rushing the passer. Willis>Namdi
Originally posted by pelos21:
Ok ok I believe you. But for reals, right now you'd take Namdi over Willis? Namdi is like 28-29 isn't he? Corners depend on the DL to provide quick pressure. Without that, even Deon wouldn't hang. MLBs depend on the DL too but not as much. Imo as a DL it's easier to stop lineman from getting to the lbers than rushing the passer. Willis>Namdi

Idk it's tough but I think I'd take nnamdi cause it's harder to find an grest CB than it is to find a great MlB
Originally posted by andes14:
Originally posted by Harbaugh52:
Originally posted by pelos21:
Originally posted by Harbaugh52:
Originally posted by asyouwere:
23 my ACE!!! thats not fair to judge him because alot of his supporting cast sucks! willis gives 100% every week, and is the best defender in the league period!!!

I'd take Asomugha over him


What??? f**k no! Willis hasn't peaked yet and Namdi has. Imo Willis is A LOT better.

Id take an elite cornerback over an elite Middle Linebacker

Hey would you take an elite cornerback over an elite Middle Linebacker?

Originally posted by andes14:
Originally posted by WRATHman44:
Originally posted by andes14:
Originally posted by gold49er2183:
Originally posted by andes14:
Originally posted by andes14:
Holy s**t, one of the following guys was not considered one of the top-100 players:

Fitzgerald
Rodgers
Woodson
Matthews
Peterson
Hutchinson
Peppers
Brees
Freeney
Vick
Ware
Asomugha
Lewis
Reed
Ngata
Polamalu
C. Johnson
Manning
A. Johnson
Brady
Revis



Which one could it be???

Anyone got any guesses? I'm truly baffled.

Hutchinson

And yet, he has a more impressive resume than everyone else listed except Brady, Manning, and MAYBE Polamalu/Reed. Even if he sucked last year (which he definitely did not), if McNabb can make it because of career body of work (when he REALLY sucked last year), how the hell can Hutchinson not when his career body of work is even better (MUCH better) AND when last year he was also way better? I've never seen something make so little sense...

This might just be me, but I think that Hutchinson's past play is more impressive than his current production. Interior linemen don't get the credit that Tackles do, and linemen don't get as much recognition as as the guys who are running all over and playing in close proximity to the football. On top of all that, the Vikings sucked this year, and you know All Day is already up there.
...as someone noted before, this rating appears to be a mish-mash of "what have you done for me lately?" and "OMG! I watched you when I was growing up!" Most guys don't remember the linemen they watched growing up (or played in Madden).

Even still, there'd be no excuse to not have him on this list, but have Romo or Austin or Colston or Leach or Lloyd, etc. on it

I agree, I am just trying to make the best sense of the list that I can. Nobody says "Hutch is a beast on Madden!"
Originally posted by WRATHman44:
Originally posted by andes14:
Originally posted by WRATHman44:
Originally posted by andes14:
Originally posted by gold49er2183:
Originally posted by andes14:
Originally posted by andes14:
Holy s**t, one of the following guys was not considered one of the top-100 players:

Fitzgerald
Rodgers
Woodson
Matthews
Peterson
Hutchinson
Peppers
Brees
Freeney
Vick
Ware
Asomugha
Lewis
Reed
Ngata
Polamalu
C. Johnson
Manning
A. Johnson
Brady
Revis



Which one could it be???

Anyone got any guesses? I'm truly baffled.

Hutchinson

And yet, he has a more impressive resume than everyone else listed except Brady, Manning, and MAYBE Polamalu/Reed. Even if he sucked last year (which he definitely did not), if McNabb can make it because of career body of work (when he REALLY sucked last year), how the hell can Hutchinson not when his career body of work is even better (MUCH better) AND when last year he was also way better? I've never seen something make so little sense...

This might just be me, but I think that Hutchinson's past play is more impressive than his current production. Interior linemen don't get the credit that Tackles do, and linemen don't get as much recognition as as the guys who are running all over and playing in close proximity to the football. On top of all that, the Vikings sucked this year, and you know All Day is already up there.
...as someone noted before, this rating appears to be a mish-mash of "what have you done for me lately?" and "OMG! I watched you when I was growing up!" Most guys don't remember the linemen they watched growing up (or played in Madden).

Even still, there'd be no excuse to not have him on this list, but have Romo or Austin or Colston or Leach or Lloyd, etc. on it

I agree, I am just trying to make the best sense of the list that I can. Nobody says "Hutch is a beast on Madden!"

Here is how to make sense of it: Voted by the players = popularity contest.
Originally posted by Janitor:


Here is how to make sense of it: Voted by the players = popularity contest.



[ Edited by Hitman49 on Jun 23, 2011 at 08:24:02 ]
Originally posted by Memphis9er:
Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
Originally posted by Memphis9er:
Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
Originally posted by andes14:
Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
Originally posted by elhebrewhammer:
Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
Originally posted by LeadershipYes:
Originally posted by cwilson830:
Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
Originally posted by elhebrewhammer:
Originally posted by andes14:
Originally posted by elhebrewhammer:
In regards to this thread. Like I said previously...I think a lot of people are being major homers complaining and making it seem like some major insult to have Patrick Willis at #23. The difference between 23 and some in 10-15 really is not that much when you are dealing with the top 100 players in the entire NFL. 23 still represents the top 2% of the league.

Some guys were even saying that he should be top 5 and maybe number one. That's just blind stupid homerism.

I could easily justify his being top-5. Other than Brady, Manning, and then I'll give you Brees and Rodgers, there's no one else that is unquestionably better.

Again, I think we are splitting hairs here. I see guys like Calvin Johnson, Damarcus Ware, Larry Fitzgerald, Darrelle Revis, Nmandi Ashohowdoyouspellit, Andre Johnson, Chris Johnson, the QBs you mentioned and don't forget about Phillip Rivers, maybe (but a think a bit of stretch) Big Ben, Jake Long (I know I'm missing some lineman alos) and can't possibly without a doubt say they are better than or worse than him.

I'm sure their are others i'm not thinking about off the top of my head. I do think he's better than Ray Lewis right now, but the track record is there for Lewis, so the players went with him.

Honestly, I just think its funny people were saying they refuse to watch because they ranked him at #23. Really?!?! People are that upset and insulted. It's homerism plain and simple. He's one of the best players in the game and 23 compared to 15 or 10 for that matter when you're talknig about 1700 players, is just nothing to get excited about.

To your point, we are just splitting hairs. With the exception of QB I think you can make a case for Willis being equal to almost all other players at any other position. It really just depends on what you value more. Is Ware really that much more valuable than Willis? I dont know. Ware had 15 sacks last season, Willis had 6. However, 99 percent of the time Ware is moving forward. I could see Willis as a 10 sack guy while keeping his other stats if he was in the right system. Personally, I would take Willis over any CB as CBs can be isolated a lot easier than a MLB. Again, just my opinion.

P.S. On a one year basis I would take Lewis over Willis. Personally, I put a very high premium on leadership (And I dont mean that "silent leader" crap.)

I watch a lot of Ravens games, and Lewis isn't a pro-bowl caliber player any more. He still has his fair share of Sportscenter highlight hits, but he's becoming a liability in a lot of aspects of the ILB game. Yeah, Lewis is still the heart of that D, but I'd take Willis over him without thinking twice.

That may be true, but talent doesn't really mean anything. It's all about leadership and yelling at the top of your lungs, because that obviously makes you play better. Ray Lewis yelling before games is what made Terrell Suggs, ed reed, Haloti Ngata, etc... into great players. Willis has yet to do this with Manny Lawson, Aubrayo Franklin, and Dashon Goldson.

Lewis>Willis, yo

Take that "yo" and shove it up your pie hole. If you don’t think words can inspire people to go above and beyond what they thought capable, you are as stupid as your troll posts. Words are the most powerful weapon known to man. Hitler doesn't almost conquer the world without them. The ability to pair words and reframe the way someone thinks can change the face of a nation. In the case of football, its all about team morale. And no shouting has nothing to do with it, its all about content.

Go peddle your BS somewhere else, moron.

I'll try and be nice and disagree with you.

I don't think you are right, but mostly because I don't think Ray Lewis's leadership skills make up for his diminished play and Patrick Willis's increased play. I've said it before that PW IMO belongs in 15-20 and Ray Lewis probably belongs at 23.

I get your point about leadership and all, but I don't it works this time. We can agree to disagree on this.

Please don't yell at me, I'm not a troll!

Based on the stats I posted I dont see the huge drop off? Ray's "diminished play" in his 15th year is about equal to P.Willys in his near prime. Again, I'm not talking about taking Ray over Willis for the next five years. I'm just talking about this season. Its hard to say what the result would be if the two swapped teams.

Patrick Willis hasn't even hit his prime yet, he's barely scratched the surface of what he can do, and yet he STILL in a lot of ways has posted superior #'s than Lewis. Lewis has only had one season with more tackles than Willis' best tackle season. Lewis has never had 6 sacks in a season, Willis has. Lewis has never forced 3 fumbles in a season, Willis has. Lewis only has scored one more TD in his career despite having played 11 more years. All this despite the fact that Willis has had much poorer supporting casts throughout his career meaning offenses can focus solely on him and he STILL does what he does. Lewis has played with guys like Ngata, Suggs, Boulware, McCrary, Adams, Woodson, McAlister, Reed, etc. each of which have made a multitude of pro-bowls and some of which are Canton-bound. Imagine if Willis played with all those guys as opposed to having 2-3 guys on offense each play whose sole responsibility is to TRY and neutralize him...I mean if he could run around super freely without a care in the world like Lewis was able to do for instance when they won the super bowl with Siragusa and Adams' 700 lbs making it impossible for o-linemen to touch him, well, MY GOD...

I appreciate the spunk, but stats be dam. Lewis was the best player on one of the best defenses in history. Willis hasn't even been on a team with a winning season or beat many teams with a winning record for that matter.

/thread.

Willis has never been a murder suspect. Also, the key word in your post is WAS, Lewis is quite a bit slower these days. If we were building defenses, I would let you have Lewis every time if that left me Willis. Better speed, better character, better numbers with less of a supporting cast. It is just splitting hairs though, and not really worth fighting amongst the brethren about.

Low blow. He didn't stab anyone, it was his buddy. I dont expect you to understand how something like that can go down, but it can happen to anybody that's from the streets. Since then, he learned his leason and now works very close with the Bmore Police department.

P.S. There are many ways to look at someones numbers. Maybe Lewis would have more tackles on the Niners because everyone around him sucks and he has to put in more work? Maybe Willis' stats fall off because he doesn't have has many opporutnities because he's surrounded by better players? The knife cuts both ways.

Wasn't meant to be a low blow, just stating a fact. Like I said, it is just splitting hairs, but like I said, I would take Willis personally, not saying I wouldn't settle for Lewis and be happy. I like Willis' speed, he is faster than Lewis ever was. I am glad that Lewis cut himself off from the hood rats, as a public figure and the face of a franchise, he needs to be clean. He's a role model whether he likes it or not. Let's just agree that we are lucky to have Willis as the anchor to our defense.

If any of you guys have any doubt what Lewis means to the Ravens, please watch the Sunday episode (6/27/2011) of "Top 100 of 2011: Reactions." Nagat is live in studio, as he was the 17th pick. I thought Nagat was going to jizz himself talking about Lewis..

P.S. Lewis is in the top 10.

[ Edited by Oakland-Niner on Jun 27, 2011 at 14:30:19 ]