Originally posted by andes14:Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:Originally posted by Memphis9er:Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:Originally posted by andes14:Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:Originally posted by elhebrewhammer:Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:Originally posted by LeadershipYes:Originally posted by cwilson830:Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:Originally posted by elhebrewhammer:Originally posted by andes14:Originally posted by elhebrewhammer:
In regards to this thread. Like I said previously...I think a lot of people are being major homers complaining and making it seem like some major insult to have Patrick Willis at #23. The difference between 23 and some in 10-15 really is not that much when you are dealing with the top 100 players in the entire NFL. 23 still represents the top 2% of the league.
Some guys were even saying that he should be top 5 and maybe number one. That's just blind stupid homerism.
I could easily justify his being top-5. Other than Brady, Manning, and then I'll give you Brees and Rodgers, there's no one else that is unquestionably better.
Again, I think we are splitting hairs here. I see guys like Calvin Johnson, Damarcus Ware, Larry Fitzgerald, Darrelle Revis, Nmandi Ashohowdoyouspellit, Andre Johnson, Chris Johnson, the QBs you mentioned and don't forget about Phillip Rivers, maybe (but a think a bit of stretch) Big Ben, Jake Long (I know I'm missing some lineman alos) and can't possibly without a doubt say they are better than or worse than him.
I'm sure their are others i'm not thinking about off the top of my head. I do think he's better than Ray Lewis right now, but the track record is there for Lewis, so the players went with him.
Honestly, I just think its funny people were saying they refuse to watch because they ranked him at #23. Really?!?! People are that upset and insulted. It's homerism plain and simple. He's one of the best players in the game and 23 compared to 15 or 10 for that matter when you're talknig about 1700 players, is just nothing to get excited about.
To your point, we are just splitting hairs. With the exception of QB I think you can make a case for Willis being equal to almost all other players at any other position. It really just depends on what you value more. Is Ware really that much more valuable than Willis? I dont know. Ware had 15 sacks last season, Willis had 6. However, 99 percent of the time Ware is moving forward. I could see Willis as a 10 sack guy while keeping his other stats if he was in the right system. Personally, I would take Willis over any CB as CBs can be isolated a lot easier than a MLB. Again, just my opinion.
P.S. On a one year basis I would take Lewis over Willis. Personally, I put a very high premium on leadership (And I dont mean that "silent leader" crap.)
I watch a lot of Ravens games, and Lewis isn't a pro-bowl caliber player any more. He still has his fair share of Sportscenter highlight hits, but he's becoming a liability in a lot of aspects of the ILB game. Yeah, Lewis is still the heart of that D, but I'd take Willis over him without thinking twice.
That may be true, but talent doesn't really mean anything. It's all about leadership and yelling at the top of your lungs, because that obviously makes you play better. Ray Lewis yelling before games is what made Terrell Suggs, ed reed, Haloti Ngata, etc... into great players. Willis has yet to do this with Manny Lawson, Aubrayo Franklin, and Dashon Goldson.
Take that "yo" and shove it up your pie hole. If you don’t think words can inspire people to go above and beyond what they thought capable, you are as stupid as your troll posts. Words are the most powerful weapon known to man. Hitler doesn't almost conquer the world without them. The ability to pair words and reframe the way someone thinks can change the face of a nation. In the case of football, its all about team morale. And no shouting has nothing to do with it, its all about content.
Go peddle your BS somewhere else, moron.
I'll try and be nice and disagree with you.
I don't think you are right, but mostly because I don't think Ray Lewis's leadership skills make up for his diminished play and Patrick Willis's increased play. I've said it before that PW IMO belongs in 15-20 and Ray Lewis probably belongs at 23.
I get your point about leadership and all, but I don't it works this time. We can agree to disagree on this.
Please don't yell at me, I'm not a troll!
Based on the stats I posted I dont see the huge drop off? Ray's "diminished play" in his 15th year is about equal to P.Willys in his near prime. Again, I'm not talking about taking Ray over Willis for the next five years. I'm just talking about this season. Its hard to say what the result would be if the two swapped teams.
Patrick Willis hasn't even hit his prime yet, he's barely scratched the surface of what he can do, and yet he STILL in a lot of ways has posted superior #'s than Lewis. Lewis has only had one season with more tackles than Willis' best tackle season. Lewis has never had 6 sacks in a season, Willis has. Lewis has never forced 3 fumbles in a season, Willis has. Lewis only has scored one more TD in his career despite having played 11 more years. All this despite the fact that Willis has had much poorer supporting casts throughout his career meaning offenses can focus solely on him and he STILL does what he does. Lewis has played with guys like Ngata, Suggs, Boulware, McCrary, Adams, Woodson, McAlister, Reed, etc. each of which have made a multitude of pro-bowls and some of which are Canton-bound. Imagine if Willis played with all those guys as opposed to having 2-3 guys on offense each play whose sole responsibility is to TRY and neutralize him...I mean if he could run around super freely without a care in the world like Lewis was able to do for instance when they won the super bowl with Siragusa and Adams' 700 lbs making it impossible for o-linemen to touch him, well, MY GOD...
I appreciate the spunk, but stats be dam. Lewis was the best player on one of the best defenses in history. Willis hasn't even been on a team with a winning season or beat many teams with a winning record for that matter.
Willis has never been a murder suspect. Also, the key word in your post is WAS, Lewis is quite a bit slower these days. If we were building defenses, I would let you have Lewis every time if that left me Willis. Better speed, better character, better numbers with less of a supporting cast. It is just splitting hairs though, and not really worth fighting amongst the brethren about.
Low blow. He didn't stab anyone, it was his buddy. I dont expect you to understand how something like that can go down, but it can happen to anybody that's from the streets. Since then, he learned his leason and now works very close with the Bmore Police department.
P.S. There are many ways to look at someones numbers. Maybe Lewis would have more tackles on the Niners because everyone around him sucks and he has to put in more work? Maybe Willis' stats fall off because he doesn't have has many opporutnities because he's surrounded by better players? The knife cuts both ways.
Ya, playing behind Adams and Siragusa and never having to even sniff an o-lineman must have been a real burden for him.
Obviously, we are speculating. You will never convince me and I will never convince you. I've already stated my case.