DB coach Donatell expects Mays to "spike."

Somehow, I doubt MadDog formed his opinion without researching. (:

Originally posted by JustinNiner:

Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Can't teach instincts, and can't teach the ability to flip those hips in coverage. Mays has great straightline speed. If we ever have a relay race, we should be in good shape. As for a guy who is going to be solid in this league, or even a starter for more than a few games or years, call me king of the skeptics.

Didn't the Niners attend the Senior Bowl week practice where scouts thought so poorly of Mays' ability to cover that they suggested it may be best for him to move to LB? Didn't they watch his tape at USC where he often took bad angles, and reacted poorly as to run himself out of plays.

Mays will join "Beast Mode" in our scrapheap of second round "Bust Modes".

Ok first of all..flipping the hips in coverage is something that can be taught to a safety...its a technique that can be practice and is something young safties develop over time.

Second...instincts? r u kidding me? if anything Mays has nothing but instincts much like our beloved hall of famer, Ronnie Lott. He has good timing and can cover his side of his field, not too mention his big hitting ability

Thirdly...u cant put too much attention on the senior bowl given that defenses are playing in different schemes and formations that they only got to learn in one week with completely different teammates

Fourthly...Mays is gonna be a beast (next ronnie lott) and you need to do some more researching before putting down a player like Mays. ok maddog?

He's talking about the practices and drills they used to determine a player's capability to play the position. Those practices have an enormous emphasis on them by scouts and coaches, and Mays did terrible. Even when he was drafted they showed clips of him being awful in coverage as analysts expressed the known concerns on Mays and why he fell out of the first, despite the big size and speed numbers.

Now, with that said, I'm going to be diplomatic and say that despite my dislike for the pick, I am still willing to give Mays a chance to develop and hope and pray that Donatell can get the most out of him and that we can scheme to use him in the best way we can to help our team.

Mays is big and he is fast, but not agile. He can hit hard, but that's only if he lands the hit. He whiffed a LOT in college, failing to wrap up and take proper angles, and we are all hoping he can improve his tackling technique.

Just trying to get across that just because someone may not be a huge fan of Mays, that doesn't mean they're stupid and without valid reasoning for that opinion. Like I said, I was not a fan of the pick and just stated many of the reasons why, but at the same time I'll at least let him have a chance to develop and grow before I call him a bust or anything like that.

Originally posted by ninertico:

Originally posted by lamontb:

Originally posted by Marvin49:
I actually think Mays will be much improved this year. I don't think he's a very instinctual player, but physically he's off the charts.

Under Manusky, the two safeties were interchangable. Mays was very often forced to pay in space...playing center field. Thats simply not his strength.

I think Fangio will play him much closer to the line in a more clasic Strong Safety position.

While Mays may never be a "playmaker", ya gotta love the guy because he's so physically gifted and he is willing to work at it. He will put in the time and effort to try to WILL himself to be great.

The whole thing last year after te draft was misunderstood. He wasn't upset that Carroll didn't select him. He know Thomas was considered a better player. He was upset because he had been asking Carroll what he could do to improve as a player and Carroll kept telling him "keep doing what you're doing". He wanted to improve. He wanted to do everything he could.

You really can't ask a guy for more than that.

In today's NFL he has to play in space. You can't play him close to the line when teams are coming with 4 wr sets all day. The end the box only safety is pretty much gone minus Adrian Wilson. You have to be able to do both and the safety positions should be interchangeable. That's what makes the Packers defense work. The majority of their secondary is interchangeable. I would expect this coaching staff puts him better situations where he can be in the box, but he won't be on the field much as an only in the box safety. Maybe they have some hybrid position for him.

You know Fangio will come up with something. The other thing about Mays that some forget is the fact that he truly is one of the hardest workers out there. He won't settle. Sure, that doesn't compensate for his lack of innate ability. But if you have some, you can develop it if you work hard at it.

Therefore, I fully expect Mays to be different this year. I see him maturing into his brand new role, whatever that may be. However, he will be one of the top S if and only if, he can reach that potential.

Only hope is does "spike" this year.

That was kinda my point. The guy is willing to put the time in. You can't ask for more.

As for the "all safeties other than Adrian Wilson need to be interchangable", I don't buy it.

The multiple WR sets we've been seeing in the NFL of late require 3 good corners, but they don't preclude a good SS. Adrian Wilson is just fine thank you.

The NFL is cyclical. Different types of players can go out of style for a bit, but they always come back. The 3-4 defense was all but extinct other than Pitt and NE...but now its making a comeback. The age of smurf recievers and the Run-and-Shoot went the way of the dodo, but now Deshaun Jackson and Jeremy Maclin come along and its in style again.

Look at it this way. The NFL goes totally pass-happy with smurf receivers who re lightning quick (Jackson, Maclin, Welker) forcing defenses to counter with lighning quick nickel backs and center fielder safeties.

How do offenses counter? You play power football against defensive midgets. Then a team has a guy who is HUGE and fast and has some success, suddenly everyone is looking for a guy like that.

Todays dinosaur is tomorrows cutting edge. In a few years, we'll all be talking about the return of the Fullback. Jut watch. Everything comes back in style.

Originally posted by JustinNiner:

Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Can't teach instincts, and can't teach the ability to flip those hips in coverage. Mays has great straightline speed. If we ever have a relay race, we should be in good shape. As for a guy who is going to be solid in this league, or even a starter for more than a few games or years, call me king of the skeptics.

Didn't the Niners attend the Senior Bowl week practice where scouts thought so poorly of Mays' ability to cover that they suggested it may be best for him to move to LB? Didn't they watch his tape at USC where he often took bad angles, and reacted poorly as to run himself out of plays.

Mays will join "Beast Mode" in our scrapheap of second round "Bust Modes".

Ok first of all..flipping the hips in coverage is something that can be taught to a safety...its a technique that can be practice and is something young safties develop over time.

Second...instincts? r u kidding me? if anything Mays has nothing but instincts much like our beloved hall of famer, Ronnie Lott. He has good timing and can cover his side of his field, not too mention his big hitting ability

Thirdly...u cant put too much attention on the senior bowl given that defenses are playing in different schemes and formations that they only got to learn in one week with completely different teammates

Fourthly...Mays is gonna be a beast (next ronnie lott) and you need to do some more researching before putting down a player like Mays. ok maddog?

I like him, but i gotta disagree. Way to often Mays plays slow. Yes, I know he's blazing fast, but he is SLOW i recognition. He is very unsure and he too often goes for the knockout and doesn't wrap up. He is NOT an overly instinctual player and thats why he has never been a "playmaker".

He can learn alot of things and he can become a very good player, but he will never be Ronnie Lott. Ronnie was one of the most instinctual players you will ever see.

Ronnie says he will. so who do we believe? You or Ronnie

Originally posted by Marvin49:

Originally posted by JustinNiner:

Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Can't teach instincts, and can't teach the ability to flip those hips in coverage. Mays has great straightline speed. If we ever have a relay race, we should be in good shape. As for a guy who is going to be solid in this league, or even a starter for more than a few games or years, call me king of the skeptics.

Didn't the Niners attend the Senior Bowl week practice where scouts thought so poorly of Mays' ability to cover that they suggested it may be best for him to move to LB? Didn't they watch his tape at USC where he often took bad angles, and reacted poorly as to run himself out of plays.

Mays will join "Beast Mode" in our scrapheap of second round "Bust Modes".

Ok first of all..flipping the hips in coverage is something that can be taught to a safety...its a technique that can be practice and is something young safties develop over time.

Second...instincts? r u kidding me? if anything Mays has nothing but instincts much like our beloved hall of famer, Ronnie Lott. He has good timing and can cover his side of his field, not too mention his big hitting ability

Thirdly...u cant put too much attention on the senior bowl given that defenses are playing in different schemes and formations that they only got to learn in one week with completely different teammates

Fourthly...Mays is gonna be a beast (next ronnie lott) and you need to do some more researching before putting down a player like Mays. ok maddog?

I like him, but i gotta disagree. Way to often Mays plays slow. Yes, I know he's blazing fast, but he is SLOW i recognition. He is very unsure and he too often goes for the knockout and doesn't wrap up. He is NOT an overly instinctual player and thats why he has never been a "playmaker".

He can learn alot of things and he can become a very good player, but he will never be Ronnie Lott. Ronnie was one of the most instinctual players you will ever see.

Ronnie believes in Mays. Soooooo..

For the love of god it was a 2nd round pick's rookie season. I don't understand why everyone is so surprised he struggled. Not to mention, we were one of the most poorly coached teams of all time.

You can teach someone to be fluid with their hips. Tell mays to take some Tahitian dance classes and do ju jit su, he'll come out 100% better.

Mays has to be one of the most over hyped players to ever come out of SC. Anyone that doesn't live out there knows he is a project player. He very obviously lacks natural instincts in coverage, but has tremendous physical talent. All that remains is to hope that coaching can help him learn to play coverage. I was honestly surprised that he wasn't tried out at outside linebacker. He was a reach but as a miner fanatic, I am hoping for great things for him.

If we get better play from our DBs and a better pass rush, our defense can keep games close for us. I know this is a QB driven league but teams with great defenses are always the top in the league. As much as I want our team to play offense better, our defense is what will win games for us.

Originally posted by 49ersNoKaOi:
You can teach someone to be fluid with their hips. Tell mays to take some Tahitian dance classes and do ju jit su, he'll come out 100% better.

That's only because it's choreographed. It's one thing to follow steps but it's another to be required to instantly react differently in nearly every situation.

Lott played FS. If he thinks Mays can play the position. It's good enough to let him try it at that position. Development.

Ronnie Lott would never state, "Mays is a guy who will never be a good player in this league". Of course he is going to say something complimentary, even if he is skeptical.

Being fluid in coverage is not a skill that can be markably improved through coaching. Players are stiff or fluid in coverage, and coaches can only make marginal improvements. The same goes for instincts. You have it, or you don't.

Originally posted by qnnhan7:
Lott played FS. If he thinks Mays can play the position. It's good enough to let him try it at that position. Development.

Matt Millen played in the NFL. If he thinks a player will be good in the NFL, then that's good enough.

Originally posted by GoGetit:

Originally posted by Marvin49:

Originally posted by JustinNiner:

Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Can't teach instincts, and can't teach the ability to flip those hips in coverage. Mays has great straightline speed. If we ever have a relay race, we should be in good shape. As for a guy who is going to be solid in this league, or even a starter for more than a few games or years, call me king of the skeptics.

Didn't the Niners attend the Senior Bowl week practice where scouts thought so poorly of Mays' ability to cover that they suggested it may be best for him to move to LB? Didn't they watch his tape at USC where he often took bad angles, and reacted poorly as to run himself out of plays.

Mays will join "Beast Mode" in our scrapheap of second round "Bust Modes".

Ok first of all..flipping the hips in coverage is something that can be taught to a safety...its a technique that can be practice and is something young safties develop over time.

Second...instincts? r u kidding me? if anything Mays has nothing but instincts much like our beloved hall of famer, Ronnie Lott. He has good timing and can cover his side of his field, not too mention his big hitting ability

Thirdly...u cant put too much attention on the senior bowl given that defenses are playing in different schemes and formations that they only got to learn in one week with completely different teammates

Fourthly...Mays is gonna be a beast (next ronnie lott) and you need to do some more researching before putting down a player like Mays. ok maddog?

I like him, but i gotta disagree. Way to often Mays plays slow. Yes, I know he's blazing fast, but he is SLOW i recognition. He is very unsure and he too often goes for the knockout and doesn't wrap up. He is NOT an overly instinctual player and thats why he has never been a "playmaker".

He can learn alot of things and he can become a very good player, but he will never be Ronnie Lott. Ronnie was one of the most instinctual players you will ever see.

Ronnie believes in Mays. Soooooo..

Ronnie also believed in Dana Hall.

I love Ronnie and he is the best Safety to ever play, but that doesn't mean he's the best guy to listen to in regards to players.

Ronnie expects everyone to have the same "want to" and insticts that HE has. If Taylor had that stuff to go along with his Physical Stature, this would be a slam dunk.

There is a REASON a 6'3", 230 lb safety who runs a 4.3 40 lasted into the second round.

I hope Mays becomes a great player, but I'm not buying into the "because Ronnie says so" argument.

Sorry.