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Out of these QB's, who would you start and why?

Out of these QB's, who would you start and why?

Originally posted by Leathaface:
Do any of you who are using Steve Young as a model for Alex Smith realize that Young is the EXCEPTION and not the rule?

It's a common fallacy...stop ignoring base rates.

I could point out 100 QBs who started their career as s**tty as Alex Smith statistically and show you how they fizzled out into backups and nobodies...it's much more likely that he doesn't amount to anything more than he currently is than him turning into a winning QB.

Using Steve Young for comparison is silly because of how rare it is for an occurrence like that.

It's funny that some of you claim to have been watching football since the early 80s yet still cannot see how history is filled with Alex Smith sob stories.
Are you deliberately ignoring the point Steve Young made about himself or do you just want to debate?

I don't speak for anyone else but my ONLY point in bringing up Young was in answer to a couple of posters who claimed that accuracy could not be taught. Young himself said, and proved, that was wrong thinking.

Having re-stated that point yet again, I am done with this...
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by Leathaface:
Do any of you who are using Steve Young as a model for Alex Smith realize that Young is the EXCEPTION and not the rule?

It's a common fallacy...stop ignoring base rates.

I could point out 100 QBs who started their career as s**tty as Alex Smith statistically and show you how they fizzled out into backups and nobodies...it's much more likely that he doesn't amount to anything more than he currently is than him turning into a winning QB.

Using Steve Young for comparison is silly because of how rare it is for an occurrence like that.

It's funny that some of you claim to have been watching football since the early 80s yet still cannot see how history is filled with Alex Smith sob stories.
Are you deliberately ignoring the point Steve Young made about himself or do you just want to debate?

I don't speak for anyone else but my ONLY point in bringing up Young was in answer to a couple of posters who claimed that accuracy could not be taught. Young himself said, and proved, that was wrong thinking.

Having re-stated that point yet again, I am done with this...

Ok.
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by Leathaface:
Do any of you who are using Steve Young as a model for Alex Smith realize that Young is the EXCEPTION and not the rule?

It's a common fallacy...stop ignoring base rates.

I could point out 100 QBs who started their career as s**tty as Alex Smith statistically and show you how they fizzled out into backups and nobodies...it's much more likely that he doesn't amount to anything more than he currently is than him turning into a winning QB.

Using Steve Young for comparison is silly because of how rare it is for an occurrence like that.

It's funny that some of you claim to have been watching football since the early 80s yet still cannot see how history is filled with Alex Smith sob stories.
Are you deliberately ignoring the point Steve Young made about himself or do you just want to debate?

I don't speak for anyone else but my ONLY point in bringing up Young was in answer to a couple of posters who claimed that accuracy could not be taught. Young himself said, and proved, that was wrong thinking.

Having re-stated that point yet again, I am done with this...

Thank god.
Originally posted by BobS:
So Steve Young was talentless trash at Tampa Bay but somehow the Bucs got a 2nd and 4th round pick for him? All you people throwing up stats and quoting experts never saw him play. I even went to the LA Coliseum and saw his USFL debut and all the Express games were on cable back in the day. On the flip side Alex Smith has tons of talent and just needs coaching, WTF? Alex Smith has more known potential than Steve did in his first 3 years of pro ball?

Has someone made the statement in bold? Or is this just an interpretation of what they are thinking when they say Young did not look very good in Tampa Bay? His stats speak for themselves...as do Smith's. Young admits he wasn't very good back then. Steve needed coaching...from Walsh. Why would you deny Smith the same opportunity with Harbaugh? Smith is not garbage. He is a player who has put his heart and soul into the game with the 9ers and has shown signs of being good.

Young's ability to run was always a plus and his overall game was good. But, I did watch him with the Bucs and he was not making great decisions, sort of like Smith this year, when his line disappeared. They actually seem similar to me. Smith does not have the upside of Young because Walsh is not around to tutor him and Smith might be damaged goods now (shoulder and psyche). It might be possible for Smith to come back and be a good QB. Please note the words "might" and "possible."

Edit: I remember an article when Young left the Express that talked about his intelligence...getting a personal services contract rather than a team contract. When the team went bankrupt he looked like a genius. 40 million was a good deal of money for a "failed" QB. Another similarity.

[ Edited by dtg_9er on Feb 13, 2011 at 08:50:30 ]
This is like asking if i would rather die by lethal injection or firing squad. all the options kind of stink. but I would take Bono, at least he had the tutelage of montana and young and the system. Played some good games as I recall.
  • BobS
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True accuracy can be taught, but the guy constantly hitting the rim can possibly taught to make his free throws, the guy who throws the ball over the back board or 5 feet short probably will not. The accuracy Walsh taught Steve was to move the ball 6-12 inches so the runner would catch the ball in stride, Alex needs 3-4 feet or more adjustments. Alex Smith the same as Steve Young in Tampa Bay? You guys that saw Steve play need to watch some film to refresh your memory.
Originally posted by BobS:
True accuracy can be taught, but the guy constantly hitting the rim can possibly taught to make his free throws, the guy who throws the ball over the back board or 5 feet short probably will not. The accuracy Walsh taught Steve was to move the ball 6-12 inches so the runner would catch the ball in stride, Alex needs 3-4 feet or more adjustments. Alex Smith the same as Steve Young in Tampa Bay? You guys that saw Steve play need to watch some film to refresh your memory.

Good post. I find it hilarious when people are like, 'Well, Steve Young and Drew Brees turned it around, so Alex should be able to do it too!'

LOL
Originally posted by niner4life21:
Originally posted by 49ersalldaway126:
Originally posted by Leathaface:
Do any of you who are using Steve Young as a model for Alex Smith realize that Young is the EXCEPTION and not the rule?

It's a common fallacy...stop ignoring base rates.

I could point out 100 QBs who started their career as s**tty as Alex Smith statistically and show you how they fizzled out into backups and nobodies...it's much more likely that he doesn't amount to anything more than he currently is than him turning into a winning QB.

Using Steve Young for comparison is silly because of how rare it is for an occurrence like that.

It's funny that some of you claim to have been watching football since the early 80s yet still cannot see how history is filled with Alex Smith sob stories.

i agree but i think alex can also be an exception to the rule remember his college coach said he needs cosistancy and remember he was a project qb so he needed that and after 6 years we couldnt do the one thing his college coach said he needed to succeed and he has improved every year he has played

im not saying he will be the exception or he wont but i think he still can be

No point in in getting your hopes up over a guy who is so good at disappointing 49er fans. Just accept the fact that he isn't a good QB. Now, if he does end up being a good (which I doubt), then take it as a pleasant surprise, but I don't think Alex is the type of guy to pin your hopes on.

the organization has disspointed smith which made him disappoint us remeber meyer gave us instructions in what to do and we did the exact opposite it wouldve be different if alex was a pro nfl ready qb coming out of college but he was a project developmental qb all project qb have to be groomed in order to be succesfull and most of all listen to the instructions of what the college coach says in order for him to be good
Jake Plummer
Originally posted by 49ersalldaway126:
Originally posted by niner4life21:
Originally posted by 49ersalldaway126:
Originally posted by Leathaface:
Do any of you who are using Steve Young as a model for Alex Smith realize that Young is the EXCEPTION and not the rule?

It's a common fallacy...stop ignoring base rates.

I could point out 100 QBs who started their career as s**tty as Alex Smith statistically and show you how they fizzled out into backups and nobodies...it's much more likely that he doesn't amount to anything more than he currently is than him turning into a winning QB.

Using Steve Young for comparison is silly because of how rare it is for an occurrence like that.

It's funny that some of you claim to have been watching football since the early 80s yet still cannot see how history is filled with Alex Smith sob stories.

i agree but i think alex can also be an exception to the rule remember his college coach said he needs cosistancy and remember he was a project qb so he needed that and after 6 years we couldnt do the one thing his college coach said he needed to succeed and he has improved every year he has played

im not saying he will be the exception or he wont but i think he still can be

No point in in getting your hopes up over a guy who is so good at disappointing 49er fans. Just accept the fact that he isn't a good QB. Now, if he does end up being a good (which I doubt), then take it as a pleasant surprise, but I don't think Alex is the type of guy to pin your hopes on.

the organization has disspointed smith which made him disappoint us remeber meyer gave us instructions in what to do and we did the exact opposite it wouldve be different if alex was a pro nfl ready qb coming out of college but he was a project developmental qb all project qb have to be groomed in order to be succesfull and most of all listen to the instructions of what the college coach says in order for him to be good

LOL. You guys need to quit the whole 'Meyer gave us instructions'

A quarterback isn't a f**king machine. You don't get a manual to work it right. Alex Smith is a QB, and sure, the coaching matters, but it's not the only thing. You have to hold the players accountable at some point. You can't keep blaming the coaches, the owners, the assistant coaches, the cheerleaders, the fans, the receivers, the defense, and the O-Line, but not the player himself.

You'd rather blame all those people and put the fault on them, instead of saying, 'yeah this player sucks'?

Really? Seems to me that some of you guys aren't really Niner fans, but more of fans of Alex Smith. Now, I'm not speaking directly to you, but to other people who would rather excuse Alex from every shortcoming he has, and put it all on the 52 other players, and 20 or so coaches...
It is utterly amazing to me that 99% of those who post here were in full agreement when it came time to fire Mike Nolan for incompetent coaching. Roughly the same percentage were in agreement that Jim Hostler should be fired for incompetence. The same for Jimmy Raye and Mike Singletary, however when it comes to the shortcomings of the players they coached, it is assumed they should have solved all their issues on their own. Just about everybody on the offense, from Vernon Davis to Joe Staley to David Baas to Alex Smith to Michael Crabtree and others, all have issues that good coaching should have corrected but has not been done...and it is all the players' fault?

That, my friends, is logical incongruity.
  • BobS
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Originally posted by dj43:
It is utterly amazing to me that 99% of those who post here were in full agreement when it came time to fire Mike Nolan for incompetent coaching. Roughly the same percentage were in agreement that Jim Hostler should be fired for incompetence. The same for Jimmy Raye and Mike Singletary, however when it comes to the shortcomings of the players they coached, it is assumed they should have solved all their issues on their own. Just about everybody on the offense, from Vernon Davis to Joe Staley to David Baas to Alex Smith to Michael Crabtree and others, all have issues that good coaching should have corrected but has not been done...and it is all the players' fault?

That, my friends, is logical incongruity.

We are talking about throwing a screen pass here for god sake. Even a developmentally disabled person should be able to figure out how to throw a football 10 yards semi accurately on his own, give me a break. Alex Smith is the football version of liver cancer, it is incurable. If Alex Smith was a car, he doesn't need a tune-up. He needs a new engine, transmission, and $10,000 of body work, so a smart person throws him away.
ty detmer
Alex made many, many more screen passes that were right on the money. But his detractors focus in on his few bad ones and try to make them live on in infamy. Indeed, they even pursuade themselves that these were the kind of throws that he made more often than not. This is how people delude themselves into living with a false reality.
  • BobS
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Originally posted by excelsior:
Alex made many, many more screen passes that were right on the money. But his detractors focus in on his few bad ones and try to make them live on in infamy. Indeed, they even pursuade themselves that these were the kind of throws that he made more often than not. This is how people delude themselves into living with a false reality.

Wonderful, he has a 65% accuracy on screen passes when the rest of the league is at 90%.