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Out of these QB's, who would you start and why?

Out of these QB's, who would you start and why?

Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Originally posted by BobS:
Originally posted by 49erRider:
Originally posted by BobS:
Originally posted by 49erRider:
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Voted for Smith because I saw all of them play.

Doubtful.

Replace your $5 garage sale TV and stop cracking beers at 5am Sunday morning and you will see different.


Are you talking to me or the other dude?

And I still don't believe he saw all of them play.

That comment about the $5 garage sale TV is for anyone who denies Alex Smith's inaccuracy or thinks coaching can fix it. Somehow either their vision is bad or their TV so fuzzy they can't see screen passes flying 8ft high and 90 mph when they get to the receiver, or the one's throw at the shoelaces.

So...you mean Harbaugh? Who commented that one of the things he liked about Smith was his accuracy. As far as having seen all these QBs play...I have shoes older than your grandfather's TV.

Harbaugh also said he was durable. No matter how you look at it, we all know that was a load of horse sh*t. Durable players don't miss as much time as Smith has missed. Period.

Harbaugh sees that we may not have a chance at a better QB due to the CBA situation and is trying to make sure he doesn't wind up with David Carr as his starter. Troy Smith proved to be as bad or worse than Alex and Carr makes them both look like pro bowlers. If you believe anything Harbaugh says about Alex Smith, I've got some beach-front property to sell you in Utah. Right on the Pacific.

[ Edited by 49erRider on Feb 11, 2011 at 12:56:40 ]
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by BobS:
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Originally posted by BobS:
Originally posted by 49erRider:
Originally posted by BobS:
Originally posted by 49erRider:
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Voted for Smith because I saw all of them play.

Doubtful.

Replace your $5 garage sale TV and stop cracking beers at 5am Sunday morning and you will see different.


Are you talking to me or the other dude?

And I still don't believe he saw all of them play.

That comment about the $5 garage sale TV is for anyone who denies Alex Smith's inaccuracy or thinks coaching can fix it. Somehow either their vision is bad or their TV so fuzzy they can't see screen passes flying 8ft high and 90 mph when they get to the receiver, or the one's throw at the shoelaces.

So...you mean Harbaugh? Who commented that one of the things he liked about Smith was his accuracy. As far as having seen all these QBs play...I have shoes older than your grandfather's TV.


Harbaugh was posturing in case we don't land something better and need Alex for a stop gap. If he honestly thinks Alex is accurate, the 49ers are wasting 5 million a year on a coach who is a moron.
I have no interest in a long smith thread but Bill Walsh proved with Joe Montana that accuracy can be taught. He did the same thing with Young. Both have recalled the many extra hours working on throwing to a precise spot not just at the player. The ball had to hit the lead hand in stride or the play was run again. You can teach accuracy but you have to understand how to do it.

His accuracy issues are more mental than physical. You can't coach that. He throws inaccurate SCREEN PASSES because he gets flustered and has no poise.
Always amazes me that some think they can psychoanalyze a player from afar, know more about ability than a coach who played the position for 15 years in the NFL and claim absolute knowledge of what can and cannot be coached. Accuracy cannot be overcome but bad decision making can be?

My observations are not more valid than any other persons, and I seldom feel comfortable making blanket statements or stating absolutes about how something can work in the future. It is my wish for the 49ers to win, every year, for the rest of my life. It would also be nice if they could win a number of super bowls during that time, never losing one. If they can do that with Smith, Kolb, or Johnson at QB great! If they need to draft someone I don't care for, fine! Just win! I think Harbaugh gives them the best chance of doing that since Mariucci, so I'm relatively happy about the progress of the team the past two months.
  • dj43
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 21,052
Originally posted by 49erRider:
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by BobS:
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Originally posted by BobS:
Originally posted by 49erRider:
Originally posted by BobS:
Originally posted by 49erRider:
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Voted for Smith because I saw all of them play.

Doubtful.

Replace your $5 garage sale TV and stop cracking beers at 5am Sunday morning and you will see different.


Are you talking to me or the other dude?

And I still don't believe he saw all of them play.

That comment about the $5 garage sale TV is for anyone who denies Alex Smith's inaccuracy or thinks coaching can fix it. Somehow either their vision is bad or their TV so fuzzy they can't see screen passes flying 8ft high and 90 mph when they get to the receiver, or the one's throw at the shoelaces.

So...you mean Harbaugh? Who commented that one of the things he liked about Smith was his accuracy. As far as having seen all these QBs play...I have shoes older than your grandfather's TV.


Harbaugh was posturing in case we don't land something better and need Alex for a stop gap. If he honestly thinks Alex is accurate, the 49ers are wasting 5 million a year on a coach who is a moron.
I have no interest in a long smith thread but Bill Walsh proved with Joe Montana that accuracy can be taught. He did the same thing with Young. Both have recalled the many extra hours working on throwing to a precise spot not just at the player. The ball had to hit the lead hand in stride or the play was run again. You can teach accuracy but you have to understand how to do it.

His accuracy issues are more mental than physical. You can't coach that. He throws inaccurate SCREEN PASSES because he gets flustered and has no poise.
Let me expand on my earlier post about Walsh and practicing for accuracy.

Steve Young recalled that Walsh would start with a "simple" swing pass to a back coming out of the backfield. The drill began with Walsh demanding the precise line on the ground that the back had to run. The route had to be perfect before the pass was thrown. Next the QB had to throw the ball on the correct arc and hit the back on his lead hand. Steve said, "it may sound simple but it isn't." Walsh made them stay with it until it was done perfectly 10 times in a row. If the pass was on the lead hand but the back hadn't run the route correctly, they had to start over. If the route was correct but the pass was off target, they had to start over. It got to where they could throw that pass with their eyes open. Whether it was Craig or Rathman or Watters, it didn't matter. It had to be done perfectly...and it worked. Young was never very accurate in TB. He learned to be accurate in SF.

One of the recurrent themes about the Nolan/Sing TCs was that there was always a certain list of things that had to be completed whether they were done well or not. There was never any real emphasis placed on working to perfection.

So compare those two pictures and tell me that Alex Smith's problems with accuracy are in his head and he will never get better. If you can, you need to start selling those crystal balls you gaze at...and I wish you luck.
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by 49erRider:
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by BobS:
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Originally posted by BobS:
Originally posted by 49erRider:
Originally posted by BobS:
Originally posted by 49erRider:
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Voted for Smith because I saw all of them play.

Doubtful.

Replace your $5 garage sale TV and stop cracking beers at 5am Sunday morning and you will see different.


Are you talking to me or the other dude?

And I still don't believe he saw all of them play.

That comment about the $5 garage sale TV is for anyone who denies Alex Smith's inaccuracy or thinks coaching can fix it. Somehow either their vision is bad or their TV so fuzzy they can't see screen passes flying 8ft high and 90 mph when they get to the receiver, or the one's throw at the shoelaces.

So...you mean Harbaugh? Who commented that one of the things he liked about Smith was his accuracy. As far as having seen all these QBs play...I have shoes older than your grandfather's TV.


Harbaugh was posturing in case we don't land something better and need Alex for a stop gap. If he honestly thinks Alex is accurate, the 49ers are wasting 5 million a year on a coach who is a moron.
I have no interest in a long smith thread but Bill Walsh proved with Joe Montana that accuracy can be taught. He did the same thing with Young. Both have recalled the many extra hours working on throwing to a precise spot not just at the player. The ball had to hit the lead hand in stride or the play was run again. You can teach accuracy but you have to understand how to do it.

His accuracy issues are more mental than physical. You can't coach that. He throws inaccurate SCREEN PASSES because he gets flustered and has no poise.
Let me expand on my earlier post about Walsh and practicing for accuracy.

Steve Young recalled that Walsh would start with a "simple" swing pass to a back coming out of the backfield. The drill began with Walsh demanding the precise line on the ground that the back had to run. The route had to be perfect before the pass was thrown. Next the QB had to throw the ball on the correct arc and hit the back on his lead hand. Steve said, "it may sound simple but it isn't." Walsh made them stay with it until it was done perfectly 10 times in a row. If the pass was on the lead hand but the back hadn't run the route correctly, they had to start over. If the route was correct but the pass was off target, they had to start over. It got to where they could throw that pass with their eyes open. Whether it was Craig or Rathman or Watters, it didn't matter. It had to be done perfectly...and it worked. Young was never very accurate in TB. He learned to be accurate in SF.

One of the recurrent themes about the Nolan/Sing TCs was that there was always a certain list of things that had to be completed whether they were done well or not. There was never any real emphasis placed on working to perfection.

So compare those two pictures and tell me that Alex Smith's problems with accuracy are in his head and he will never get better. If you can, you need to start selling those crystal balls you gaze at...and I wish you luck.

Smith is in his 6th year. Really tough to erase the accuracy issues of a player going into his 7th season. People keep saying how Harbaugh can develop Alex Smith. Alex isn't some rookie that you can just develop. He's a vet who has already developed his own negative tendencies and mechanics. The guy still has flawed mechanics and footwork after all these years.
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by 49erRider:
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by BobS:
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Originally posted by BobS:
Originally posted by 49erRider:
Originally posted by BobS:
Originally posted by 49erRider:
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Voted for Smith because I saw all of them play.

Doubtful.

Replace your $5 garage sale TV and stop cracking beers at 5am Sunday morning and you will see different.


Are you talking to me or the other dude?

And I still don't believe he saw all of them play.

That comment about the $5 garage sale TV is for anyone who denies Alex Smith's inaccuracy or thinks coaching can fix it. Somehow either their vision is bad or their TV so fuzzy they can't see screen passes flying 8ft high and 90 mph when they get to the receiver, or the one's throw at the shoelaces.

So...you mean Harbaugh? Who commented that one of the things he liked about Smith was his accuracy. As far as having seen all these QBs play...I have shoes older than your grandfather's TV.


Harbaugh was posturing in case we don't land something better and need Alex for a stop gap. If he honestly thinks Alex is accurate, the 49ers are wasting 5 million a year on a coach who is a moron.
I have no interest in a long smith thread but Bill Walsh proved with Joe Montana that accuracy can be taught. He did the same thing with Young. Both have recalled the many extra hours working on throwing to a precise spot not just at the player. The ball had to hit the lead hand in stride or the play was run again. You can teach accuracy but you have to understand how to do it.

His accuracy issues are more mental than physical. You can't coach that. He throws inaccurate SCREEN PASSES because he gets flustered and has no poise.
Let me expand on my earlier post about Walsh and practicing for accuracy.

Steve Young recalled that Walsh would start with a "simple" swing pass to a back coming out of the backfield. The drill began with Walsh demanding the precise line on the ground that the back had to run. The route had to be perfect before the pass was thrown. Next the QB had to throw the ball on the correct arc and hit the back on his lead hand. Steve said, "it may sound simple but it isn't." Walsh made them stay with it until it was done perfectly 10 times in a row. If the pass was on the lead hand but the back hadn't run the route correctly, they had to start over. If the route was correct but the pass was off target, they had to start over. It got to where they could throw that pass with their eyes open. Whether it was Craig or Rathman or Watters, it didn't matter. It had to be done perfectly...and it worked. Young was never very accurate in TB. He learned to be accurate in SF.

One of the recurrent themes about the Nolan/Sing TCs was that there was always a certain list of things that had to be completed whether they were done well or not. There was never any real emphasis placed on working to perfection.

So compare those two pictures and tell me that Alex Smith's problems with accuracy are in his head and he will never get better. If you can, you need to start selling those crystal balls you gaze at...and I wish you luck.

Man, that was a really good post.
  • dj43
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 21,052
Originally posted by niner4life21:
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by 49erRider:
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by BobS:
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Originally posted by BobS:
Originally posted by 49erRider:
Originally posted by BobS:
Originally posted by 49erRider:
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Voted for Smith because I saw all of them play.

Doubtful.

Replace your $5 garage sale TV and stop cracking beers at 5am Sunday morning and you will see different.


Are you talking to me or the other dude?

And I still don't believe he saw all of them play.

That comment about the $5 garage sale TV is for anyone who denies Alex Smith's inaccuracy or thinks coaching can fix it. Somehow either their vision is bad or their TV so fuzzy they can't see screen passes flying 8ft high and 90 mph when they get to the receiver, or the one's throw at the shoelaces.

So...you mean Harbaugh? Who commented that one of the things he liked about Smith was his accuracy. As far as having seen all these QBs play...I have shoes older than your grandfather's TV.


Harbaugh was posturing in case we don't land something better and need Alex for a stop gap. If he honestly thinks Alex is accurate, the 49ers are wasting 5 million a year on a coach who is a moron.
I have no interest in a long smith thread but Bill Walsh proved with Joe Montana that accuracy can be taught. He did the same thing with Young. Both have recalled the many extra hours working on throwing to a precise spot not just at the player. The ball had to hit the lead hand in stride or the play was run again. You can teach accuracy but you have to understand how to do it.

His accuracy issues are more mental than physical. You can't coach that. He throws inaccurate SCREEN PASSES because he gets flustered and has no poise.
Let me expand on my earlier post about Walsh and practicing for accuracy.

Steve Young recalled that Walsh would start with a "simple" swing pass to a back coming out of the backfield. The drill began with Walsh demanding the precise line on the ground that the back had to run. The route had to be perfect before the pass was thrown. Next the QB had to throw the ball on the correct arc and hit the back on his lead hand. Steve said, "it may sound simple but it isn't." Walsh made them stay with it until it was done perfectly 10 times in a row. If the pass was on the lead hand but the back hadn't run the route correctly, they had to start over. If the route was correct but the pass was off target, they had to start over. It got to where they could throw that pass with their eyes open. Whether it was Craig or Rathman or Watters, it didn't matter. It had to be done perfectly...and it worked. Young was never very accurate in TB. He learned to be accurate in SF.

One of the recurrent themes about the Nolan/Sing TCs was that there was always a certain list of things that had to be completed whether they were done well or not. There was never any real emphasis placed on working to perfection.

So compare those two pictures and tell me that Alex Smith's problems with accuracy are in his head and he will never get better. If you can, you need to start selling those crystal balls you gaze at...and I wish you luck.

Smith is in his 6th year. Really tough to erase the accuracy issues of a player going into his 7th season. People keep saying how Harbaugh can develop Alex Smith. Alex isn't some rookie that you can just develop. He's a vet who has already developed his own negative tendencies and mechanics. The guy still has flawed mechanics and footwork after all these years.
Wait a minute. You ignored one of the most important points of the post. This was Steve Young talking - a guy who had come out of college, played in that old league in LA, went to Tampa where the FO and the fans gave up on him, then came to SF. Now after all of that, Walsh took the time to re-teach the fundamentals of footwork and mechanics to this vet who had failed previously. This wasn't some fresh kid out of college. By that time, Young was a pro with lots of games under his belt, and significant flaws in his game, yet Walsh was able to correct them and turn him into a HOF quarterback. Prior to coming to SF, NO ONE would have been so foolish as to believe he could be such a great player, yet through proper coaching and practice, he proved all the skeptics wrong.

So how can you be so sure that Alex Smith cannot be improved if the same methods are employed? Share your crystal ball with us please.
  • BobS
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 8,368
Quote:

Wait a minute. You ignored one of the most important points of the post. This was Steve Young talking - a guy who had come out of college, played in that old league in LA, went to Tampa where the FO and the fans gave up on him, then came to SF. Now after all of that, Walsh took the time to re-teach the fundamentals of footwork and mechanics to this vet who had failed previously. This wasn't some fresh kid out of college. By that time, Young was a pro with lots of games under his belt, and significant flaws in his game, yet Walsh was able to correct them and turn him into a HOF quarterback. Prior to coming to SF, NO ONE would have been so foolish as to believe he could be such a great player, yet through proper coaching and practice, he proved all the skeptics wrong.

So how can you be so sure that Alex Smith cannot be improved if the same methods are employed? Share your crystal ball with us please.

I guess you never saw The LA Express & Tampa Bay Steve Young play? If you did you would not even try to compare him to Alex Smith. Young was very athletic and his flaw was trying to do TOO MUCH. You could see the potential, he had raw talent that needed to be harnessed. Smith has none of the raw ability that Young had.
Originally posted by BobS:
Quote:

Wait a minute. You ignored one of the most important points of the post. This was Steve Young talking - a guy who had come out of college, played in that old league in LA, went to Tampa where the FO and the fans gave up on him, then came to SF. Now after all of that, Walsh took the time to re-teach the fundamentals of footwork and mechanics to this vet who had failed previously. This wasn't some fresh kid out of college. By that time, Young was a pro with lots of games under his belt, and significant flaws in his game, yet Walsh was able to correct them and turn him into a HOF quarterback. Prior to coming to SF, NO ONE would have been so foolish as to believe he could be such a great player, yet through proper coaching and practice, he proved all the skeptics wrong.

So how can you be so sure that Alex Smith cannot be improved if the same methods are employed? Share your crystal ball with us please.

I guess you never saw The LA Express & Tampa Bay Steve Young play? If you did you would not even try to compare him to Alex Smith. Young was very athletic and his flaw was trying to do TOO MUCH. You could see the potential, he had raw talent that needed to be harnessed. Smith has none of the raw ability that Young had.

I didn't watch football back then but I know that you're one of the older 49er fans on this site so I'll take your word for it.

And anyway, Steve Young is not the rule, he's the exception. For every player like Young who turned their career around, there's 100 other QBs who couldn't. People need to stop holding onto false hope for their man.
Originally posted by BobS:
Quote:

Wait a minute. You ignored one of the most important points of the post. This was Steve Young talking - a guy who had come out of college, played in that old league in LA, went to Tampa where the FO and the fans gave up on him, then came to SF. Now after all of that, Walsh took the time to re-teach the fundamentals of footwork and mechanics to this vet who had failed previously. This wasn't some fresh kid out of college. By that time, Young was a pro with lots of games under his belt, and significant flaws in his game, yet Walsh was able to correct them and turn him into a HOF quarterback. Prior to coming to SF, NO ONE would have been so foolish as to believe he could be such a great player, yet through proper coaching and practice, he proved all the skeptics wrong.

So how can you be so sure that Alex Smith cannot be improved if the same methods are employed? Share your crystal ball with us please.

I guess you never saw The LA Express & Tampa Bay Steve Young play? If you did you would not even try to compare him to Alex Smith. Young was very athletic and his flaw was trying to do TOO MUCH. You could see the potential, he had raw talent that needed to be harnessed. Smith has none of the raw ability that Young had.

Disagree about Young showing talent and Smith showing none, but don't want to compare the two. If Walsh were around to tutor Smith I would feel differently but he had a special knack for getting the most out of QBs.

Young's stats--two years with Tampa Bay (after his experience with the Express)

TDs 11
Ints 21
QB ratings
56.9
65.5

Many NFL experts believed Young would never amount to an NFL QB.

Smith's stats in the red zone (in close games, not just garbage time) are among the best in the NFL. That demonstrates ability. Watching him play in college he looked very smooth and passed well on the run. He lacks/lacked consistency and very often did not play up to expectations. I believe it is/was due to bad coaching, others believe he has no talent. For his sake I hope he has a great career ahead of him, where ever he plays.

No sense beating each other over the head though, as time will tell us whether he can resurrect his career...and we don't have much say as to his future.
  • BobS
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 8,368
So Steve Young was talentless trash at Tampa Bay but somehow the Bucs got a 2nd and 4th round pick for him? All you people throwing up stats and quoting experts never saw him play. I even went to the LA Coliseum and saw his USFL debut and all the Express games were on cable back in the day. On the flip side Alex Smith has tons of talent and just needs coaching, WTF? Alex Smith has more known potential than Steve did in his first 3 years of pro ball?
  • dj43
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 21,052
Originally posted by BobS:
So Steve Young was talentless trash at Tampa Bay but somehow the Bucs got a 2nd and 4th round pick for him? All you people throwing up stats and quoting experts never saw him play. I even went to the LA Coliseum and saw his USFL debut and all the Express games were on cable back in the day. On the flip side Alex Smith has tons of talent and just needs coaching, WTF? Alex Smith has more known potential than Steve did in his first 3 years of pro ball?

The original point was whether or not accuracy could be taught to a QB that had been in the league for a few years and had established certain playing parameters. To that point, Steve Young himself recalled he had to do a lot of work on his accuracy in order to satisfy Bill Walsh. As time has shown, Walsh was able to accomplish that with Young.

No one said Young was trash. However, there were a lot of NFL observers who felt that Young would be better off focusing on being a running back instead of a QB at Tampa Bay. His accuracy was the question, not his overall talent or athleticism. That was the point I raised, and the only point.

And yes, I saw Young play in the USFL...
Do any of you who are using Steve Young as a model for Alex Smith realize that Young is the EXCEPTION and not the rule?

It's a common fallacy...stop ignoring base rates.

I could point out 100 QBs who started their career as s**tty as Alex Smith statistically and show you how they fizzled out into backups and nobodies...it's much more likely that he doesn't amount to anything more than he currently is than him turning into a winning QB.

Using Steve Young for comparison is silly because of how rare it is for an occurrence like that.

It's funny that some of you claim to have been watching football since the early 80s yet still cannot see how history is filled with Alex Smith sob stories.
Originally posted by Leathaface:
Do any of you who are using Steve Young as a model for Alex Smith realize that Young is the EXCEPTION and not the rule?

It's a common fallacy...stop ignoring base rates.

I could point out 100 QBs who started their career as s**tty as Alex Smith statistically and show you how they fizzled out into backups and nobodies...it's much more likely that he doesn't amount to anything more than he currently is than him turning into a winning QB.

Using Steve Young for comparison is silly because of how rare it is for an occurrence like that.

It's funny that some of you claim to have been watching football since the early 80s yet still cannot see how history is filled with Alex Smith sob stories.

i agree but i think alex can also be an exception to the rule remember his college coach said he needs cosistancy and remember he was a project qb so he needed that and after 6 years we couldnt do the one thing his college coach said he needed to succeed and he has improved every year he has played

im not saying he will be the exception or he wont but i think he still can be
Originally posted by 49ersalldaway126:
Originally posted by Leathaface:
Do any of you who are using Steve Young as a model for Alex Smith realize that Young is the EXCEPTION and not the rule?

It's a common fallacy...stop ignoring base rates.

I could point out 100 QBs who started their career as s**tty as Alex Smith statistically and show you how they fizzled out into backups and nobodies...it's much more likely that he doesn't amount to anything more than he currently is than him turning into a winning QB.

Using Steve Young for comparison is silly because of how rare it is for an occurrence like that.

It's funny that some of you claim to have been watching football since the early 80s yet still cannot see how history is filled with Alex Smith sob stories.

i agree but i think alex can also be an exception to the rule remember his college coach said he needs cosistancy and remember he was a project qb so he needed that and after 6 years we couldnt do the one thing his college coach said he needed to succeed and he has improved every year he has played

im not saying he will be the exception or he wont but i think he still can be

No point in in getting your hopes up over a guy who is so good at disappointing 49er fans. Just accept the fact that he isn't a good QB. Now, if he does end up being a good (which I doubt), then take it as a pleasant surprise, but I don't think Alex is the type of guy to pin your hopes on.