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Out of these QB's, who would you start and why?

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Out of these QB's, who would you start and why?

  • TIM_
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 30
Originally posted by JayBee:

Thing is, when Alex was healthy, he was nothing special either.

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Exactly,even when he had over a year with the same system and we were assured he would finally become "functional" ,he still was sub par .
He will always be sub par imho ,but if JH is forced by the CBA mess to keep Alex for 1 more season before he gets his REAL qb on the roster,then I will wait for 2012 for the REAl future to begin.Go Niners !
Originally posted by dj43:

Smith worked WITH the 49er staff during the off-season when he was healthy enough to do so.

As to Peyton, you don't know that he was going to be elite any more than I do, however, the entire point is that by comparing what other teams did with their QBs and how they developed, gives us insight into exactly how bad the 49ers were.

As to Smith getting his own trainer, that is entirely a hindsight judgement that assumes he even knew what his technical flaws were. Hostler was terrible as QB coach and keeping him as OC was just another in a long line of terrible Mike Nolan judgements.

If you want to overlook all of these things, and call them all "excuses," go ahead. I don't care to go through all of this again. The fact is, AT THIS POINT IN TIME, Alex Smith is clearly the best hope for a decent QB for the upcoming season without giving up a high draft pick for a mediocre stop-gap. My hope is that Harbaugh is close to the QB coach we all hope he is, and can work his craft with Smith. I would be very happy to see Smith play at the 90+ level he did in the final 1/3 of the season when Raye was gone and he had a real OC behind him. That's all...

Do you blame Alex for anything or does everything fall on his shoulders.

It's funny how McCarthy is a bum with the 9ers, but a genius with the Packers. A good QB can either make you look terribly bad or terribly good.

Funny how Alex fans try to pick apart every little thing that wasn't "perfect" for him and completely dismiss anything that was done to help him succeed. The 9ers should only be faulted for not bringing in better receivers as well as not establishing an identity on offense.
Originally posted by JayBee:
Originally posted by dj43:

Smith worked WITH the 49er staff during the off-season when he was healthy enough to do so.

As to Peyton, you don't know that he was going to be elite any more than I do, however, the entire point is that by comparing what other teams did with their QBs and how they developed, gives us insight into exactly how bad the 49ers were.

As to Smith getting his own trainer, that is entirely a hindsight judgement that assumes he even knew what his technical flaws were. Hostler was terrible as QB coach and keeping him as OC was just another in a long line of terrible Mike Nolan judgements.

If you want to overlook all of these things, and call them all "excuses," go ahead. I don't care to go through all of this again. The fact is, AT THIS POINT IN TIME, Alex Smith is clearly the best hope for a decent QB for the upcoming season without giving up a high draft pick for a mediocre stop-gap. My hope is that Harbaugh is close to the QB coach we all hope he is, and can work his craft with Smith. I would be very happy to see Smith play at the 90+ level he did in the final 1/3 of the season when Raye was gone and he had a real OC behind him. That's all...

Do you blame Alex for anything or does everything fall on his shoulders.

It's funny how McCarthy is a bum with the 9ers, but a genius with the Packers. A good QB can either make you look terribly bad or terribly good.

Funny how Alex fans try to pick apart every little thing that wasn't "perfect" for him and completely dismiss anything that was done to help him succeed. The 9ers should only be faulted for not bringing in better receivers as well as not establishing an identity on offense.

who said mccarthy was a bum here? he just got a better job somewhere else so he took it
  • dj43
  • Moderator
  • Posts: 35,666
Originally posted by JayBee:
Originally posted by dj43:

Smith worked WITH the 49er staff during the off-season when he was healthy enough to do so.

As to Peyton, you don't know that he was going to be elite any more than I do, however, the entire point is that by comparing what other teams did with their QBs and how they developed, gives us insight into exactly how bad the 49ers were.

As to Smith getting his own trainer, that is entirely a hindsight judgement that assumes he even knew what his technical flaws were. Hostler was terrible as QB coach and keeping him as OC was just another in a long line of terrible Mike Nolan judgements.

If you want to overlook all of these things, and call them all "excuses," go ahead. I don't care to go through all of this again. The fact is, AT THIS POINT IN TIME, Alex Smith is clearly the best hope for a decent QB for the upcoming season without giving up a high draft pick for a mediocre stop-gap. My hope is that Harbaugh is close to the QB coach we all hope he is, and can work his craft with Smith. I would be very happy to see Smith play at the 90+ level he did in the final 1/3 of the season when Raye was gone and he had a real OC behind him. That's all...

Do you blame Alex for anything or does everything fall on his shoulders.

It's funny how McCarthy is a bum with the 9ers, but a genius with the Packers. A good QB can either make you look terribly bad or terribly good.

Funny how Alex fans try to pick apart every little thing that wasn't "perfect" for him and completely dismiss anything that was done to help him succeed. The 9ers should only be faulted for not bringing in better receivers as well as not establishing an identity on offense.
You are relatively new here so let me tell you where I stand so you are not mistaken on my post.

I was one of the very first here to say that Alex Smith would leave the team of his own choice in order to start fresh in a new situation. I still think that is the best thing for him. Now we have a situation where the team is left with only David Carr and whoever else they may sign off the street, including Alex Smith. Therefore, given those circumstances, Alex is the best choice for the upcoming season, assuming the CBA is not signed before the beginning of TC, which is what I believe to be the case based on all reports.

So back to your question; Mike McCarthy was booed here for being too conservative, but at the time, the team was so short of talent that many observers claimed the expansion Houston Texans had more talent than that team. He got about as much out of that pathetic roster as anyone could. In the meantime, the plays he called and his background led GB to believe he could be a good HC. Time has shown them to be correct.

To your points; they 49er FO should be blamed for bringing in a coach who was totally unqualified to lead the team and who had no idea how to build an offense. Another "blame," is that Nolan's hiring occurred so late in the hiring cycle that all the decent assistant coaches had already committed to other teams. Nolan was left with junk. As proof of that, over the next three years he turned over most of the staff as he tried to entice better coaches to come here - he failed, with the one exception of Norv Turner, a very over-rated OC who attained his reputation from being in the right place at the right time with a Cowboys roster that was loaded with future HOF and Pro Bowl players. As we all know, Turner left for the SD job.

You should know all of this already so I'll just cut to the bottom line; if the 49er coaching staff was so good, why were they all fired? If they were so good, why has the last 6 years become the poster child for how NOT to handle a QB? Why have every player drafted here not named Willis, Gore or Davis struggled but failed to reach anything close to their potential?

I don't know what Smith can, and cannot do, and neither do you or anybody else here. My point is only that until he actually has some quality coaching, none of us will know how good he might be. For those who actually watch the details instead of just the ball, it is clear that once Johnson became QB coach, Smith's mechanics became better. It is also clear that once Johnson took over the offense, Smith's QB rating jumped into the top 1/3 of the league as play design and game plan allowed him more targets and better options.

So take that for what you will. Everyone, including Smith, has been disappointed in the lack of production. He has always manned up and said he needed to do better, but those who really study football do not even come close to putting all the blame on him. You do with that what you want. I won't enter a long debate. I am fully convinced that he is the best option considering the conditions and that is not an issue at question in my mind.

Cheers.

[ Edited by dj43 on Feb 14, 2011 at 19:00:30 ]
Originally posted by SnakePlissken:


Yes!
Well-put, dj43.
Alex Smith gets a pass from his fanboys b/c he had bad coaching. But the same o-line that is also considered to be a reason he didn't produce isn't excused by bad coaching...
The same receivers who were sooo terrible that Alex couldn't function well are bashed again and again, but no one realizes that they had s**thead Jerry Sullivan coaching them for the past 7 or whatever years?

Double standard?
Originally posted by niner4life21:
Alex Smith gets a pass from his fanboys b/c he had bad coaching. But the same o-line that is also considered to be a reason he didn't produce isn't excused by bad coaching...
The same receivers who were sooo terrible that Alex couldn't function well are bashed again and again, but no one realizes that they had s**thead Jerry Sullivan coaching them for the past 7 or whatever years?

Double standard?

we have been blaming coacging i can think of a single person over past years that didnt want sulliven fired and we have been a carousel for coaching on our OL as well as our OC for past years
just say no to alex!
  • dj43
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  • Posts: 35,666
Originally posted by niner4life21:
Alex Smith gets a pass from his fanboys b/c he had bad coaching. But the same o-line that is also considered to be a reason he didn't produce isn't excused by bad coaching...
Go back and read some of my criticism of the man blocking schemes that Nolan/Sing insisted on here and how that slowed the development of guys like Rachal, Iupati and A Davis.


Quote:
The same receivers who were sooo terrible that Alex couldn't function well are bashed again and again, but no one realizes that they had s**thead Jerry Sullivan coaching them for the past 7 or whatever years?
Again, I can't speak for others but I have questioned Sullivan's expertise on numerous occasions...and called out Pete Hoener for VD's poor routes and reads.

The problem is that everyone wants to only talk about the QB position, and every time anyone points out any of these other problem areas they are called an Alex fanboy...not that that bothers me personally as I understand that it is usually someone who has not yet gained a larger knowledge of the game than to just watch the ball all the time. That's fine. If they stay with it, they will learn.

  • BobS
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 10,658
Freaking hilarious that the Alex Smith lovers site he averaged over a 90 passer rating the last 4 games of 2010. What they forgot to mention was three of the pass defenses he faced (STL, SEA, AZ) averaged 19th, 23rd, and 27th in yards allowed. When he faced the good defense of the group (SD), he put up a 66 rating with a 5.7 YPA. So Alex is a great QB to have to roll up stats on crappy defenses. So the 49ers should re-sign him and platoon him with someone who can play well against good defenses.
Originally posted by BobS:
Freaking hilarious that the Alex Smith lovers site he averaged over a 90 passer rating the last 4 games of 2010. What they forgot to mention was three of the pass defenses he faced (STL, SEA, AZ) averaged 19th, 23rd, and 27th in yards allowed. When he faced the good defense of the group (SD), he put up a 66 rating with a 5.7 YPA. So Alex is a great QB to have to roll up stats on crappy defenses. So the 49ers should re-sign him and platoon him with someone who can play well against good defenses.



[ Edited by 49erFaithful6 on Feb 15, 2011 at 05:13:39 ]
Originally posted by niner4life21:
Alex Smith gets a pass from his fanboys b/c he had bad coaching. But the same o-line that is also considered to be a reason he didn't produce isn't excused by bad coaching...
The same receivers who were sooo terrible that Alex couldn't function well are bashed again and again, but no one realizes that they had s**thead Jerry Sullivan coaching them for the past 7 or whatever years?

Double standard?

Very good point. It is clearly a flawed argument, yet one that is made over and over.
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by niner4life21:
Alex Smith gets a pass from his fanboys b/c he had bad coaching. But the same o-line that is also considered to be a reason he didn't produce isn't excused by bad coaching...
Go back and read some of my criticism of the man blocking schemes that Nolan/Sing insisted on here and how that slowed the development of guys like Rachal, Iupati and A Davis.


Quote:
The same receivers who were sooo terrible that Alex couldn't function well are bashed again and again, but no one realizes that they had s**thead Jerry Sullivan coaching them for the past 7 or whatever years?
Again, I can't speak for others but I have questioned Sullivan's expertise on numerous occasions...and called out Pete Hoener for VD's poor routes and reads.

The problem is that everyone wants to only talk about the QB position, and every time anyone points out any of these other problem areas they are called an Alex fanboy...not that that bothers me personally as I understand that it is usually someone who has not yet gained a larger knowledge of the game than to just watch the ball all the time. That's fine. If they stay with it, they will learn.

Good points DJ. I have pointed out that some of the coaches came to the 9ers with good reps but did not succeed here, Sullivan being a good example. Coaching for incompetent HCs could be the most frustrating experience some of these men have ever faced. The QB coach and OC should be in sync with the receiver coach but not if they are ill prepared for the jobs. Also, one of the reasons I have pointed out the need for the OC to have power within the organization is so players do not ignore them, and by extension ignore the position coaches. If a player could go straight to Nolan or Singletary why bother listening to an assistant?

Most of us have pointed out problems with the coaching of the OLine, D, WR, QB; but that if not what some nay sayers want to talk about. They would rather cherry pick a comment and quote it out of context so they can prove their point. Not sure about how much football they know but some posts seem to have little to do with football.

Hopefully we are all 9er fans and once things get rolling next year will enjoy greater success...this frustration will pass and all will be right with the world.
  • SoCold
  • Hall of Dumb
  • Posts: 127,767
Hmm lets see I would start Druckenmiller cause he’s clearly had enough starts under his belt to belong on this list but after throwing 4 picks in 4 attempts I would bench him in favor of Ty Detmer because he threw for over 300 and 4 touchdowns in his only start as a 9er but sadly he would trip over himself and break his elbow walking to the locker room after the game.
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