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What kind of defense does Vic Fangio run? (Hint: You might have seen it today)

According to MB's blog post Fangio's defensive rankings have gotten markedly worse with each subsequent year that he is the DC on a team. Yet he apparently has the same origins as Dom Capers who ran the GB defense all over Vick and Philly tonight. Can anyone provide detailed analysis as to why with such a powerful system, Fangio is consistently plagued with defenses getting worse under his control rather than better?
Originally posted by susweel:
Fangio sounds like the Jimmy Raye of DC's.

Exactly what I thought, the post above me with the statistics seem to indicate that as well.
manusky GTFO!!!!!!!!!!!!!! now!!!
  • jimrat
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 12,180
Originally posted by teeohh:
manusky GTFO!!!!!!!!!!!!!! now!!!



+1 man, if Dom Capers picks him to coach his D thumbs up!
Dont bring in this guy. Hes worse than what we already have.
  • Wodwo
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 8,104
What kind of defense does Vic Fangio run?

The kind I want.

Aggressive.

Disciplined.

Creative.

I wanted the team to hire Dom Capers as defensive coordinator. Badly.

This is as close as we're going to get.

Hire him now please.
If he is bringing in the same type of credentials that Jimmy Raye did as an OC, then there may be something to worry about.

Keep in mind that HE IS NOT DOM CAPERS, and his past record DOESN'T exactly exudes confidence.

I know that there are a lot of people here who dislikes Manusky, but replacing him with this guy is a HUGE gamble!

But of course if Harbaugh wants him, ain't much we can do about it!
There is a Mark Twain quote to describe this. "There are lies, damn lies, and statistics."

There are a lot of things that can go into those misleading stats. The head coach, the head coaches game plan. Not every coach gives free reign to their coordinators. In the end they are a slave to their head coach and that coaches philosophy.

Also you have to take into account your personnel. The 4-3 is a much easier system to run, you can plug in any professional athletes and run is reasonably well. There is less deception, less creativity, and its more players can run it. Especially since most teams starting from Pop Warner, to High School, and college have run the 4-3 in some way or another. They are more comfortable with it.

However the 3-4 is a much more complicated scheme, you have to have some vary specific things. You need to have intelligent players that can mask their blitzs and understand how to play well in it. Not every defensive player can transition well into it. You need some LARGE boys on the line. Especially at the nose tackle. and you need a big middle linebacker to take on blocks that will free up everything else. And you need talented pass rushing OLB. There are numerous examples all across the NFL when a team can't run a 3-4 well and them get embarrassed on D. There is no way around it you have to draft, teach, and pick up free agents that specifically fit the 3-4.

I realize this is excuse making on Fangio's behalf. I am not making a judgement one way or another on the guy until I see what he does with the Niners. Keep in mind the great Dom Capers failed as a head coach, as did his defense under his watch.

You look at any good coordinator and I will show you a year or a place where they failed statistically.
[ Edited by OX49er253 on Jan 9, 2011 at 11:18 PM ]
Originally posted by Gelb1472:
According to MB's blog post Fangio's defensive rankings have gotten markedly worse with each subsequent year that he is the DC on a team. Yet he apparently has the same origins as Dom Capers who ran the GB defense all over Vick and Philly tonight. Can anyone provide detailed analysis as to why with such a powerful system, Fangio is consistently plagued with defenses getting worse under his control rather than better?

I've been an avid fan 88-89. It's actually pretty simple why the defense declined. They simply got old in Carolina. When Bill Polian and Dom Camper put together the Panther from the expansion years they spent most of their draft choices on Kerry Collins and the rest of the offense. They used Free agents and the expansion draft which was filled with older veterans to build their defense.

In Indianapolis they simple didn't have much talent which is why they hired Tony Dungy to install the cover 2 defense which is more of a bend but don't break defense. Even today they try and make you drive the entire field by not giving up big plays.

Houston was another expansion team.
Originally posted by GEEK:
Honestly, I'd prefer to have Manusky at DC for another year, and hire Fangio as the LB/Asst. HC. If Manusky doesn't improve the secondary and pass rush, you can easily fire him for Fangio.

DC: Manusky
DL: Tomsula
LB: Fangio, Tarver
DB: Joseph, ???

Ummm our secondary has been our weakest link for 4 yrs ... I think manusky had his chance.
Originally posted by montana2rice:
Originally posted by GEEK:
Honestly, I'd prefer to have Manusky at DC for another year, and hire Fangio as the LB/Asst. HC. If Manusky doesn't improve the secondary and pass rush, you can easily fire him for Fangio.

DC: Manusky
DL: Tomsula
LB: Fangio, Tarver
DB: Joseph, ???

Ummm our secondary has been our weakest link for 4 yrs ... I think manusky had his chance.

I think the secondary coach is going to be the key hire to the defenses success. I could really see us starting a rookie corner, safety and nickel back. The only player I see as being safe are Spencer and Mays
Wouldn't mind having Manusky back. We get no pass rush from Haralson and Lawson plus a horrid secondary and we still ranked 13 in total defense.
Originally posted by Hopper:
Wouldn't mind having Manusky back. We get no pass rush from Haralson and Lawson plus a horrid secondary and we still ranked 13 in total defense.

Lawson gets pressure on the QB. The problem is the other guys don't so all the QB has to do is step up in the pocket.
well the plus would be him and Harbaugh are already on the same page about how to handle the offense/defense situations.

looking over his resume....he does kinda seem like the DC version of Jimmy Raye. just because his defenses ranked in the middle of the pack or worse in most every season. in a way id rather just keep Manusky around and chalk up 2010 as a fluky bad year.
Originally posted by Hopper:
Wouldn't mind having Manusky back. We get no pass rush from Haralson and Lawson plus a horrid secondary and we still ranked 13 in total defense.

http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2010/11/19/pass-rushing-productivity-whos-making-the-most-of-their-opportunities/

wait we get no pass rush from Manny Lawson?

or we get the most efficient pass rush from anyone in the NFL through week 12 from Manny Lawson...hmm....
[ Edited by Niners99 on Jan 10, 2011 at 1:41 AM ]