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Why was Troy pulled from the starting QB spot?

  • ZRF80
  • Member
  • Posts: 13,551
Troy was pulled for the same reasons that Shaun Hill was. Apparently, those guys are held accountable for mistakes, despite their winning records. Alex Smith isnt despite his losing record.

Alex Smith's mistakes can be blamed on the coaching, oline, WRs, and defense, whereas the mistakes of Troy and Shaun can be attributed to their flawed game.

It's easy to say that Troy is inaccurate, doesnt know the playbook, and makes too many mental mistakes............but the same cannot be said to Alex Smith because his fanbase would aspirate their own gastric contents.

Funny how 2 QBs with winning records were benched for a guy that hasnt shown consistency even while his 6th year is coming to an end.
Originally posted by ZRF80:
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by billbird2111:
Originally posted by baybreaker707:
Originally posted by Leathaface:
It is unbelievable how little leeway any OTHER QB on the 49ers roster gets. Alex Smith is given an exponential number of excuses/opportunities to become an average QB while there is absolutely ZERO margin for error with our other QBs (Shaun Hill, Troy Smith).

BTW: Bradford's rookie season > Alex Smith's career.

Believe this, Alex knows the playbook better than any qb we have right now. But it doesn't matter because the oline is crap. You can throw anyone of our qbs back there but at this point the coaches want the one with better knowledge of the plays.

So you're saying if Bradford was on this team, we would be having a better season?

Yup
Sorry. As much as I would like to see better QB play, if the only change was the same Bradford as he came out of college in exchange for Alex, then we will disagree.

The HUGE difference is that though Bradford came from a spread system similar to Alex, from the very first day, Sam had one of the best and brightest offensive minds in the game tailoring the offense specifically for what Bradford could do, and at the rate he could absorb it. Pat Shurmur started with simple plays, with short receivers on very easy throws...at least one, sometimes two on every play, protection schemes were designed specifically for individual plays with easy checkdowns, etc. In short, the entire Ram offense was geared to make Bradford comfortable and able to take the things he did in the spread and apply them to the NFL and then GRADUALLY move into pro style plays...and it has worked, though Sam appears to have hit a wall the past three weeks but he is far advanced over where he started the season.

If Bradford would have started the season with the 49ers and trying to run this offense with the amateurs that are steering this truck, he would be a wreck right now. To compare Bradford NOW to what he was at the beginning of the season is night and day. The very comparison between Smith and Bradford is the strongest evidence to fire Singletary. One has had every advantage to enable his development while the other has had every barrier imaginable thrown in his path.

Great. So in Alex's first 5 seasons you guys clamored about how he didnt have the continuity with his OC needed to excel in the NFL. Now that that theory is out the window, you take a guy that HAS excelled with only ONE year on an offensive system, and excuse that as "well, his OC is a mastermind".

Ok, I'll bite............why didnt Smith excel with McCarthy ? Why didnt he excel with Turner ? Why didnt Martz give him a chance to play ? Arent all of these guys "masterminds" ? How can a first year QB excel under a NEW offensive system, yet Alex failed in all 7 of his ?

Alexcuse number 2 coming right up.........

Dude he was injured playing for Martz and never got a chance, you know that. Plus Norv still really likes Alex and you know that too. The reality is both of them aren't very good and it doesn't matter, other than the fact that you enjoy trolling the zone HARD.
because he was sacking himself and playing s**tty his last 3 starts. probably singletary's fault with his crappy gameplans but troy got the blame put on him like alex does all the time.
Originally posted by AllTimeGreat:
16/31 (51.6%) for 148 yards 1 INT
11/23 (47.8%) for 129 yards 1 TD & 1 INT
10/25 (40%) for 194 yards 1 TD & 1 INT

The guy had one good game (although a very good one a that). The league has him figured out and he proved incapable of making adjustments.

This is how I feel...Troy as good when he first came in but after that, with one game to scout him it was done

Alex is not good but I dont see how anyone really thinks troy is better with this coaching, with this line. 6 for one and a half dozen of the other cept I think troy probably would have more picks if he kept playing luck only goes so far
Originally posted by SFGem:
alex smith is basura. watch this guy aint gonna start anymore next year in the nfl.

He'll start. If matt moore can start, Alex Smith can start.
  • dj43
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 20,131
Originally posted by ZRF80:
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by billbird2111:
Originally posted by baybreaker707:
Originally posted by Leathaface:
It is unbelievable how little leeway any OTHER QB on the 49ers roster gets. Alex Smith is given an exponential number of excuses/opportunities to become an average QB while there is absolutely ZERO margin for error with our other QBs (Shaun Hill, Troy Smith).

BTW: Bradford's rookie season > Alex Smith's career.

Believe this, Alex knows the playbook better than any qb we have right now. But it doesn't matter because the oline is crap. You can throw anyone of our qbs back there but at this point the coaches want the one with better knowledge of the plays.

So you're saying if Bradford was on this team, we would be having a better season?

Yup
Sorry. As much as I would like to see better QB play, if the only change was the same Bradford as he came out of college in exchange for Alex, then we will disagree.

The HUGE difference is that though Bradford came from a spread system similar to Alex, from the very first day, Sam had one of the best and brightest offensive minds in the game tailoring the offense specifically for what Bradford could do, and at the rate he could absorb it. Pat Shurmur started with simple plays, with short receivers on very easy throws...at least one, sometimes two on every play, protection schemes were designed specifically for individual plays with easy checkdowns, etc. In short, the entire Ram offense was geared to make Bradford comfortable and able to take the things he did in the spread and apply them to the NFL and then GRADUALLY move into pro style plays...and it has worked, though Sam appears to have hit a wall the past three weeks but he is far advanced over where he started the season.

If Bradford would have started the season with the 49ers and trying to run this offense with the amateurs that are steering this truck, he would be a wreck right now. To compare Bradford NOW to what he was at the beginning of the season is night and day. The very comparison between Smith and Bradford is the strongest evidence to fire Singletary. One has had every advantage to enable his development while the other has had every barrier imaginable thrown in his path.

Great. So in Alex's first 5 seasons you guys clamored about how he didnt have the continuity with his OC needed to excel in the NFL. Now that that theory is out the window, you take a guy that HAS excelled with only ONE year on an offensive system, and excuse that as "well, his OC is a mastermind".

Ok, I'll bite............why didnt Smith excel with McCarthy ? Why didnt he excel with Turner ? Why didnt Martz give him a chance to play ? Arent all of these guys "masterminds" ? How can a first year QB excel under a NEW offensive system, yet Alex failed in all 7 of his ?

Alexcuse number 2 coming right up.........
Offensive coordinators oversee the training that goes on with the QBs but they don't deal with the nuts and bolts of the day to day training. That is done by the QB coach. In Alex's case, it was Amateur Night for the QB coach up until Mike Johnson arrived here. That was the first time they had anybody with any background training the position, and even MJ is not very deeply experienced.

In the case of the Rams, Spagnuolo turned Bradford over personally to Pat Shurmur for training all through TC and PS. Shurmur did not turn him over to QB coach Richard Curl until the season starts. Curl, BTW, played QB in college and has been coaching pros since 1991. So while Alex has been coached by guys with no playing experience and very little pro coaching experience, Bradford has had one of the best OCs and QB coaches in the game. How can you even compare the two situations? They just couldn't be more different.

Look, we are about to dump our second set of coaches in 6 years because they just don't have a clue about offense. So, unless you believe firing Singletary is wrong and it is all just the offensive players that are making him look bad, how can you not see that the coaching carries the major role in why Alex did not turn out to be what the team needed?
[ Edited by dj43 on Dec 18, 2010 at 11:34 PM ]
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by SFGem:
Troy Smith is 10x the qb alex is. I don't care what any of you say anymore about Alex. You alex supporters are delusional. alex smith is a sorry excuse for a qb.

Troy would have given us a shot to win against SD. period. alex didn't do s**t. i gaurantee troy wouldn't have been stopped 4 inches from the goal line.

You are correct Troy would not have been stopped 4 inches short of the goal line.

He would have been stopped 4 YARDS short of the goal line. Troy is MUCH slower than Alex. He would have had not chance to reach the goal line.

Cant make that comparison. Two different players, two different mindsets. Alex decided to take off and got stopped. Who is to say Troy would of took off? It is a known fact he takes WAAY more chances than Alex has and he still produced less turnovers. How about that 2nd down and goal play where Alex rolled left, bought some time and then threw it away? Who is to say Troy Smith would of threw it away instead of throwing it to the back of the endzone where he had a man Crabtree I believe) running wide open along the back line and giving him a chance to make a play? Can't make that comparison.
Originally posted by SFGem:
Troy Smith is 10x the qb alex is. I don't care what any of you say anymore about Alex. You alex supporters are delusional. alex smith is a sorry excuse for a qb.

Troy would have given us a shot to win against SD. period. alex didn't do s**t. i gaurantee troy wouldn't have been stopped 4 inches from the goal line.

Hindsight is 20/20. There is no telling what Troy would have done. It is easy to say he would have been better because we saw that Alex didn't do too much but our O-line was abused.
Originally posted by Leathaface:
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by billbird2111:
Originally posted by baybreaker707:
Originally posted by Leathaface:
It is unbelievable how little leeway any OTHER QB on the 49ers roster gets. Alex Smith is given an exponential number of excuses/opportunities to become an average QB while there is absolutely ZERO margin for error with our other QBs (Shaun Hill, Troy Smith).

BTW: Bradford's rookie season > Alex Smith's career.

Believe this, Alex knows the playbook better than any qb we have right now. But it doesn't matter because the oline is crap. You can throw anyone of our qbs back there but at this point the coaches want the one with better knowledge of the plays.

So you're saying if Bradford was on this team, we would be having a better season?

Yup
Sorry. As much as I would like to see better QB play, if the only change was the same Bradford as he came out of college in exchange for Alex, then we will disagree.

The HUGE difference is that though Bradford came from a spread system similar to Alex, from the very first day, Sam had one of the best and brightest offensive minds in the game tailoring the offense specifically for what Bradford could do, and at the rate he could absorb it. Pat Shurmur started with simple plays, with short receivers on very easy throws...at least one, sometimes two on every play, protection schemes were designed specifically for individual plays with easy checkdowns, etc. In short, the entire Ram offense was geared to make Bradford comfortable and able to take the things he did in the spread and apply them to the NFL and then GRADUALLY move into pro style plays...and it has worked, though Sam appears to have hit a wall the past three weeks but he is far advanced over where he started the season.

If Bradford would have started the season with the 49ers and trying to run this offense with the amateurs that are steering this truck, he would be a wreck right now. To compare Bradford NOW to what he was at the beginning of the season is night and day. The very comparison between Smith and Bradford is the strongest evidence to fire Singletary. One has had every advantage to enable his development while the other has had every barrier imaginable thrown in his path.

Are you kidding me? Do you watch college football? The offense that Utah ran with Alex Smith is WORLD'S different from the offense Bradford ran at OU. There is nothing to compare between the two offense's at all.

Bradford came from an offense where they asked the QB to make a few reads and THROW the ball. Smith came from a presnap read offense. No comparison.

THIS. Bradford not only played in a different style but he has ALWAYS had a quick release and has ALWAYS been deadly accurate. Alex....... not so much
Originally posted by jreff22:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by jreff22:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
Because he can't throw from the pocket and doesn't know the playbook.

We don't know if he can't throw from the pocket yet. I don't think this offense is designed for a shorter QB. Saints set up Brees so that the pocke has movement so he can shift around into lanes.

How or who do you think designed that offense for him....? Expecting something like that from us, currently, is not a possibility.

Which is why Troy does it on his own anyways. Wish Alex would that more.

Running around and throwing it up is not a skill of a good QB. This is not street ball, you cannot win with that mentality.

Beat the Broncos and Rams with that mentality
Originally posted by MarkD:
Because he sucked. The teams he won against had crappy defenses and they couldnt game plan against him because they knew nothing about him. All they do against the other Smith is blitz and and fluster him and the fact that our offense has NO hot reads is another story enitrely. But he sucks and that why

Rams were top 10 defense AND coming off a bye week when Troy torched them for 356 yards
Originally posted by Adman:
Do you agree with that move?

I don't think his play cost us the GB game at all. He had a perfect 50 yarder to Vernon Davis and he dropped it. He doesn't give up many turnovers like Alex Smith. I think it was his worst game he's had while starting for us but it didnt cost us the game at all. No one made plays. His worst game was an average game for Alex Smith.

The one thing I did notice is that I thought he would be a faster runner. But he is acually kind of slow. Alex Smith is much faster. I dont know why neither of them use this ability more.

Troy brings that swag and confidence. Alex brings nothing.

I'm pretty sure he's faster than Alex but he's still no Mike Vick, Mike Vick is the only one that can make it look like a video game out there. I think NFL D's have pretty much figured out how to play effectively enough against QBs with above average mobility... except Mike Vick.
[ Edited by silkyjohnson on Dec 19, 2010 at 12:50 AM ]
  • Wodwo
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 8,036
Originally posted by Sims84:


Beat the Broncos and Rams with that mentality

Again, proof that our coaches suck. His best games were improvisation.

  • Wodwo
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 8,036
Originally posted by Sims84:
Originally posted by MarkD:
Because he sucked. The teams he won against had crappy defenses and they couldnt game plan against him because they knew nothing about him. All they do against the other Smith is blitz and and fluster him and the fact that our offense has NO hot reads is another story enitrely. But he sucks and that why

Rams were top 10 defense AND coming off a bye week when Troy torched them for 356 yards

With improvisation... then his limitations were exposed by the Bucs and he sucked every game after.

Neener.
Originally posted by Wodwo:
Originally posted by Sims84:
Originally posted by MarkD:
Because he sucked. The teams he won against had crappy defenses and they couldnt game plan against him because they knew nothing about him. All they do against the other Smith is blitz and and fluster him and the fact that our offense has NO hot reads is another story enitrely. But he sucks and that why

Rams were top 10 defense AND coming off a bye week when Troy torched them for 356 yards

With improvisation... then his limitations were exposed by the Bucs and he sucked every game after.

Neener.

How did he suck? was it his stats or the play calling? If it is stats, Alex has sucked in damn near every game of his career If it is play calling (coaching like you say) then why is he on the bench when he has only started 5 games and has more wins than Alex? In theory, Troy ALWAYS beats the teams he is suppose to, Alex doesn't
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