Why was Troy pulled from the starting QB spot?

Originally posted by oldman9er:

Originally posted by Memphis9er:
Troy is not as good as Alex, or as ready to play in the NFL. The man who drafted him said as much. There are bigger problems than QB on this team, we need another QB, but we need secondary help more.

As you are one of maybe a dozen truly respectable and intelligent posters here, I'd like to ask your take on this.

Do you feel our secondary failures are due to scheme... personnel talent... or lack of pass rush? Could you apply a % of blame to what you perceive to be the degree of blame for each?

... thanks.

( and yeah, we definitely need talented youth at CB, so that's not why I am asking )

I think some of it is scheme, like maybe 30% and lack of speed and awareness at the defensive back position in general is a bigger part of the problem say 40%, but Mays might become better and solve some of the speed problem, he just lacks on the field awareness, and don't even get me started on Goldson. Lack of a consistent pass rush would probably be 30% as well. I have always favored more of a man to man defense approach, though if you have the right kind of db's a zone can cause coverage sacks and turnovers.

I appreciate the compliment, I try to be level headed and think about my responses rather than just spewing the nonsense that some here seem to think helps the discourse. I really wish the mods would do something about the asshats that are constantly baiting other posters into getting themselves warned/banned. They are the absolute worst part of this site and it would be a much better place without the degree of trolling that they do.

Originally posted by UpLateAgain:
There was a time.... not really all THAT long ago, when draftee QBs typically spent a few years on the bench learning the system. Now they throw them into the mix five minutes out of college, change their head coaches and OCs like stop lights change their colors, and then they wonder why they don't seem to develop. Remember how Steve Young sucked the first few years he was in the league? And Terry Bradshaw....several years before he could complete even 50% of his passes or throw more TDs than interceptions. Even really good QBs can be ruined if played too soon... or else they seem to take forever to develop. There are exceptions like Rothlisburger or Manning.... but those are two guys out of a hundred... and they started with otherwise very good teams.

Alex is inconsistent and plays in fits and starts. Troy doesn't know enough, apparently, about the SF game. neither is very accurate, though in fairness, Troy is far more accurate than Alex for the number of snaps he's taken by comparison.

For whatever reason, Singletary can't seem to get this team's heads in the game. They make an incredible number of stupid, really stupid, basic mistakes.... then repeat them.....over and over and over. How many great plays have we seen gone awry this year because some numb nuts grabs a face mask nowhere near the play, or some highly-paid receiver or defensive back drops a ball that hits him right in the numbers. Then the team sits on the sideline and laughs it off. That's ALL on Singletary. Other (winning) coaches don't tolerate it and don't get it..... at least at nowhere near the Niner rate.

These guys simply do not execute. Three and out is acceptable to them.

They're down by two touchdowns late in the game on the other team's forty at third and one... and they punt. The other team runs it back ten or 15 yards and they end up with a net gain of ten to twenty yards but lose possession. Andy Lee is so good, they usually win the field position battle.... but never seem to score (it's really hard to when you give the other team the ball), while the other team doesn't seem to care about field position. They just move down the field from wherever they start.

They seldom use their big guns. Vernon Davis is one of the premier TEs in football, but he'll go whole halves without the ball being thrown to him. Then they throw one to him late in the game, he scores (too little too late), and you ask, "Why the hell haven't they hit shim seven or eight times previously?" What's up with that?

We've seen both Troy and Alex put on brilliant drives drives at times... but it only seems to happen when they are down so far they really don't have a prayer of coming all the way back. In the meantime, they get that way by being way too conservative most of the time. They often have a decent opening drive, get ahead a little, then settle into extreme conservatism until they are too far behind to get going again... whereupon they successfully open it up at the end one last time to score once just before time runs out when they need three scores to tie.

Bottom line.... these guys can't coach, and we really don't KNOW which (if either Troy or Alex) can be good because both have been mishandled from jump street.

Actually, they have cut down on mistakes. But I agree with you, the biggest mistake that is constantly being made is playing not win. This team does not have the talent to over power most teams so, you have to be a bit more creative when that occurs. I saw Tampa run a RB option at the goal line and the RB hit a wide open TE for the TD a few weeks ago. I'm wondering why don't the 49ers do that? Last night I saw Brady call an audible for his TE to lineup wide and do a 10 and out. The CB was too small to handle their TE and it went for a TD. Again I'm wondering why can't the 49ers do that? I see teams shuffle thier QB's according to which one runs a play better. Troy runs the misdirection sweep better than Alex, so why couldn't they have brought him in at the goal line to run that play with a pass option instead of running up the gut?

If I had started this thread, it would have immediately been merged with the "Troy Smith Trolley" thread. double standards.

Originally posted by Shaj:
If I had started this thread, it would have immediately been merged with the "Troy Smith Trolley" thread. double standards.

Poor Shaj...they just won't let you be you.

Originally posted by Memphis9er:
Troy is not as good as Alex, or as ready to play in the NFL. The man who drafted him said as much. There are bigger problems than QB on this team, we need another QB, but we need secondary help more.

And what do you base this on? Billick has only commented on his accuracy while quite a few NFL people don't see Alex as starter material at all.

I don't see how you couldn't think that if Troy was in a system for at least 1 offseason, that his play wouldn't improve similar to the saying about Alex being in a system for more than 1 offseason would improve his production. Why not take this "wasted" season to working on Troy in getting him ready to play in the NFL? Alex is not going improve his game anymore than he has in this environment.

Either way, I agree that there are bigger problems, but Nate Clements isn't the worst starting CB in the league and Spencer is still shown to be a solid CB. A defense schemed properly can make these types of CB's look much better, however, a defense without any pressure on the QB can't really do anything about this.

One thing is for sure, I think our issues on defense fall more on the responsibilities of the Safeties and Pass Rush more than it does on the CB's. Why? Because it has been repeatedly said that this defense is designed to funnel everything to the middle. Nate had GREAT coverage on Jackson thursday, but the advantage went to the bigger, stronger, faster WR, as it usually does.

As for the offense, don't know why you didn't mention where the major responsibility lies there. We all know that strategies and adjustments have been a joke, but we all have also seen terrible execution or missed plays. I think that 70% of the blame on the offense is on the Philosophy and the OC. As for on the field, the majority of the blame is on the QB.

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by Memphis9er:
Troy is not as good as Alex, or as ready to play in the NFL. The man who drafted him said as much. There are bigger problems than QB on this team, we need another QB, but we need secondary help more.

And what do you base this on? Billick has only commented on his accuracy while quite a few NFL people don't see Alex as starter material at all.

I don't see how you couldn't think that if Troy was in a system for at least 1 offseason, that his play wouldn't improve similar to the saying about Alex being in a system for more than 1 offseason would improve his production. Why not take this "wasted" season to working on Troy in getting him ready to play in the NFL? Alex is not going improve his game anymore than he has in this environment.

Either way, I agree that there are bigger problems, but Nate Clements isn't the worst starting CB in the league and Spencer is still shown to be a solid CB. A defense schemed properly can make these types of CB's look much better, however, a defense without any pressure on the QB can't really do anything about this.

One thing is for sure, I think our issues on defense fall more on the responsibilities of the Safeties and Pass Rush more than it does on the CB's. Why? Because it has been repeatedly said that this defense is designed to funnel everything to the middle. Nate had GREAT coverage on Jackson thursday, but the advantage went to the bigger, stronger, faster WR, as it usually does.

As for the offense, don't know why you didn't mention where the major responsibility lies there. We all know that strategies and adjustments have been a joke, but we all have also seen terrible execution or missed plays. I think that 70% of the blame on the offense is on the Philosophy and the OC. As for on the field, the majority of the blame is on the QB.

I base this on the article that he said it in, it was on the front page of the zone. Billick said Troy is not yet NFL ready, his words, not mine. I was asked about defensive problems, but just for you...I think the main problem on offense is not having a coaching staff that is good at recognizing, developing and properly utilizing talent. Bottom line, we need more football people and fewer administration types in this organization.

Originally posted by Memphis9er:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by Memphis9er:
Troy is not as good as Alex, or as ready to play in the NFL. The man who drafted him said as much. There are bigger problems than QB on this team, we need another QB, but we need secondary help more.

And what do you base this on? Billick has only commented on his accuracy while quite a few NFL people don't see Alex as starter material at all.

I don't see how you couldn't think that if Troy was in a system for at least 1 offseason, that his play wouldn't improve similar to the saying about Alex being in a system for more than 1 offseason would improve his production. Why not take this "wasted" season to working on Troy in getting him ready to play in the NFL? Alex is not going improve his game anymore than he has in this environment.

Either way, I agree that there are bigger problems, but Nate Clements isn't the worst starting CB in the league and Spencer is still shown to be a solid CB. A defense schemed properly can make these types of CB's look much better, however, a defense without any pressure on the QB can't really do anything about this.

One thing is for sure, I think our issues on defense fall more on the responsibilities of the Safeties and Pass Rush more than it does on the CB's. Why? Because it has been repeatedly said that this defense is designed to funnel everything to the middle. Nate had GREAT coverage on Jackson thursday, but the advantage went to the bigger, stronger, faster WR, as it usually does.

As for the offense, don't know why you didn't mention where the major responsibility lies there. We all know that strategies and adjustments have been a joke, but we all have also seen terrible execution or missed plays. I think that 70% of the blame on the offense is on the Philosophy and the OC. As for on the field, the majority of the blame is on the QB.

I base this on the article that he said it in, it was on the front page of the zone. Billick said Troy is not yet NFL ready, his words, not mine. I was asked about defensive problems, but just for you...I think the main problem on offense is not having a coaching staff that is good at recognizing, developing and properly utilizing talent. Bottom line, we need more football people and fewer administration types in this organization.

Yet BAL was ready for Troy to be the starter.

All I'm saying is why not get Troy Smith better "ready"? Actually, only being able to call a handful of plays is probably more of a disadvantage for him than anything. It all points back to coaching as it doesn't even seem as though they cut the field in half for him but use more plays.

The worst part about Singletary's handling/hiring of the OC is that Alex is a "slow applier" to what he learns which means right back to square one with the Alex Smith question marks. But either way, he has to overcome some barriers also.

Lack of utilization of the talent on offense can only go as far as the plays the QB is comfortable with. We saw what the talent on offense can do with Troy Smith in the game but what Troy does well aren't exactly Alex's strengths.

It's a catch-22. OC probably would like to call more different types of routes to align to the strengths of Crabtree/Davis/Walker/Morgan but Alex Smith is not comfortable throwing to certain routes that "appear" tight. So the OC doesn't call those as much and now must call plays to better fit Alex's comfortability but the routes on those plays aren't accentuating the receivers' strengths.

Originally posted by Memphis9er:

Originally posted by Shaj:
If I had started this thread, it would have immediately been merged with the "Troy Smith Trolley" thread. double standards.

Poor Shaj...they just won't let you be you.

yeah, I got a bullseye on me...

Originally posted by Shaj:

Originally posted by Memphis9er:

Originally posted by Shaj:
If I had started this thread, it would have immediately been merged with the "Troy Smith Trolley" thread. double standards.

Poor Shaj...they just won't let you be you.

yeah, I got a bullseye on me...

why is that ??

Originally posted by carlgo:
McNabb is done.

Interesting that Flynn was able to come in and do an excellent job in place of Rogers in GB against a very good team.

That is because they paid attention to their backups, gave them reps, coached them...their coach (not good enough for the Niners evidently) somehow knew that starting QBs do get hurt and you need a viable backup.

Also, he didn't see the need to acquire terrible backups and then hide them away someplace in order to protect Rogers's psyche.

You know all this how?

Originally posted by Memphis9er:
Troy is not as good as Alex, or as ready to play in the NFL. The man who drafted him said as much. There are bigger problems than QB on this team, we need another QB, but we need secondary help more.

Are you fricken kidding me?? QB is the biggest need BY FAR, then we need a better pass rush then we need a corner.

Originally posted by sdaddy101269:

Originally posted by Memphis9er:
Troy is not as good as Alex, or as ready to play in the NFL. The man who drafted him said as much. There are bigger problems than QB on this team, we need another QB, but we need secondary help more.

Are you fricken kidding me?? QB is the biggest need BY FAR, then we need a better pass rush then we need a corner.

He's from the Mike Singletary school of thought where the QB is not the most important player on the team.

Originally posted by susweel:

Originally posted by sdaddy101269:

Originally posted by Memphis9er:
Troy is not as good as Alex, or as ready to play in the NFL. The man who drafted him said as much. There are bigger problems than QB on this team, we need another QB, but we need secondary help more.

Are you fricken kidding me?? QB is the biggest need BY FAR, then we need a better pass rush then we need a corner.

He's from the Mike Singletary school of thought where the QB is not the most important player on the team.

I guess. It drives me nuts when I read those kinda posts. EVERY good team has a good QB. PERIOD! If we had good, consistant QB play this season we probably only have 4 losses IMO.

Originally posted by sdaddy101269:

Originally posted by Memphis9er:
Troy is not as good as Alex, or as ready to play in the NFL. The man who drafted him said as much. There are bigger problems than QB on this team, we need another QB, but we need secondary help more.

Are you fricken kidding me?? QB is the biggest need BY FAR, then we need a better pass rush then we need a corner.

A pass rusher is equal to QB in terms of overall need and value to the team.

Originally posted by sdaddy101269:

Originally posted by Memphis9er:
Troy is not as good as Alex, or as ready to play in the NFL. The man who drafted him said as much. There are bigger problems than QB on this team, we need another QB, but we need secondary help more.

Are you fricken kidding me?? QB is the biggest need BY FAR, then we need a better pass rush then we need a corner.

No, I am not kidding you, our defense has cost us more than who we have had at qb. We need better safety play big time, and then maybe pass rush. If our offensive line would be more consistent, then the whole offense would be more consistent.