Kawakami: Alex Smith is Good Just In Time to Play Somewhere Else

Originally posted by dbdublin:

Originally posted by JBatta49erfansince81:
Name another team that has kept a starting QB after 5 years of never having a winning record.

Enough is enough. Time to move on.

Since you asked I'll give you one from the 49ers past - John Brodie. In fact Alex reminds me a lot of Brodie. He played on terrible teams, had a terrible record and terrible statistics. He was taken with the 3rd overall pick out of Stanford in 1957. The fans hated him for years. He was scape-goated much the way Alex has been. Finally, in his 14th year he led the 49ers to the playoffs in 1970 under Mike Nolan's father. The 49ers were in the playoffs in '70, '71, and 72 and lost to the Dallas Cowboys all three years. Brodie ended up being a two time Pro Bowler and one time first team All Pro and he is actually quite beloved by long-time Niner fans.

Not making excuses for Alex but for Brodie it turned out he wasn''t the problem. He was actually very good. It wasn't his fault the team was terrible for a decade and a half. The last five years have not been completely Alex's fault either. Unfortunately, I think I would have to look at the Yorks, specifically John York. Alex is a good kid who has worked very hard and tried his best under very difficult circumstances (to say the least). Maybe he doesn't have it - I don't know - but just be a little bit careful what you wish for.

I don't think I'll have a problem if the 49ers have somebody who can hold the fort until the next QB is ready, but it concerns me that the free agent pool likely to be available next season is so poor (most will be a downgrade from A. Smith.) It'll be costly to get a temporary replacement, and not a good one at that.

Originally posted by KowboyKiller:
If Alex goes somewhere where people actually KNOW how to coach a QB with talent, and has a good support structure, he will do well.

Look at Michael Vick, never passed above 56%, was away for 2 YEARS IN PRISON, and now look how well he's playing, because he has what I just mentioned. Yes, a QB is responsible for his play, and Alex has made plenty of mistakes, but you can only isolate the problems on offense to the QB when everything else or most everything around him is working. Alex has had nothing working around him, so to isolate him as the problem is fallacious. Could it be him? Sure, much of it has been, but more of it has been all the other parts not working. He was not handled correctly and neither has the chaos of the offense.

Until all the problems on offense are fixed, I don't think Alex will do great, and because of that, I'd be happy to see him succeed somewhere else (unless it's in the NFC West or the Cowboys).

It's worth noting that McNabb was a much better QB last year playing for a good team. Now his stats are lousy, as he plays for a bad team. I think Vick has benefited greatly playing for Reid, a QB guru, as well having a guy named DeSean Jackson to throw to.

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:

Originally posted by VA9erfan:
I can't wait for some here to get what they ask for.....A. Smith to be gone. Let's hear YOUR plan for next year if / after he is cut loose.

Honestly, do you really think it's going to be impossible to find someone who:

~can do better than 18-30 as a starter?
~has a career passer rating of 71?
~has a career completion % of 56.9?
~has thrown 52 picks to 49 TDs?
~has 85 turnovers in 51 games played
~has never won more than 7 games in a season as a starter?

Is this all Alex's fault? Of course not; he's had to deal with things that few rookie/young QBs have had to...and I actually like Alex as a person and as a man. But there comes a point where Smith fans have to look at the player and see him for what he's done. And what he's done is not pretty.

Findng someone to do better than Smith will not be as difficult as you (and many others) make it seem. It's time to move on (both for him, and for the team).

I don't mean to pick on you, or this post, since I already responded to it, however, I just heard Clark Judge of CBS Sports interviewed on KNBR. Judge is a pretty good football guy who watches the NFL pretty closely. His opinion on the bolded part of you post is worth noting.

Rod Brooks asked him directly about the chances of getting Kevin Kolb next year, or if there was someone else that would be of that same level of player that could step in with the 49ers next year.

Judge replied at two levels; one, that the Eagles might be forced to trade Kolb if they give a lot of money to Michael Vick (which everyone believes they will), and two, that there isn't any other backup QB around the league now that would be anywhere close to Kolb quality.

So that comes back to a point I made in one of this ridiculously long string of Alex Smith/QB threads. Alex is as good or better than any FA they might get to replace him so making an attempt to keep him at least until a rookie can get ready.

The other option is one I don't want to consider because it involves meeting Philly's asking price of a #1 in 2011 and at least a #2 in 2012 for Kolb. (I have read Philly really is asking for two #1s.) If that were to happen, it would set this team back another 2 years at the least.

As you said, this team is not as close to the playoffs (except for making it as the NFC West winner) as some think. If they are forced to give up on Alex completely it means they will be forced to use their #1 pick on a QB. That means that pick better be darn good very soon because without a pass rusher to protect a weak secondary, this defense is going to give up a lot of points and will need a VERY good QB that can put enough points on the board to offset the defensive shortcomings.

As Judge said, if you have the #1 overall pick and you miss and that guy doesn't turn out to be the guy, it sets the team back a minimum of 5 years. It doesn't really matter that Smith couldn't have been managed worse, the time to pay for that mistake is now upon us.

So there you have it. The question is; are the 49ers willing to give up two #1 picks for Kevin Kolb, or do they use those picks on a rookie like Cam Newton and try to get by with some combination of Troy and Nate?

Tough choice.

Philly can ask for what they want, but nobody in their right mind will give them two 1st rounders for Kolb, and they know that...in fact, they won't even get one pure 1st rounder for him. I think something closer to what the Texans did for Schaub (swapping 1st round picks with ATL, and two 2nds over 2 years) will be closer to reality. So would I swap 1st rounders with Philly and give them, say, a 3rd rounder in the upcoming draft for Kolb? That I would consider.

I could get my young QB (Kolb) and still have a 1st rounder (albeit a late 1st) to address my secondary (CB Gibson from Miami?), and use the 2nd to shore up my d-line (NTs Powe/Jenkins or DEs Kerrigan/Acho?).

The real question is: will Kolb fit the 49ers? IMO: no.

Originally posted by fastforward:

Originally posted by KowboyKiller:
If Alex goes somewhere where people actually KNOW how to coach a QB with talent, and has a good support structure, he will do well.

Look at Michael Vick, never passed above 56%, was away for 2 YEARS IN PRISON, and now look how well he's playing, because he has what I just mentioned. Yes, a QB is responsible for his play, and Alex has made plenty of mistakes, but you can only isolate the problems on offense to the QB when everything else or most everything around him is working. Alex has had nothing working around him, so to isolate him as the problem is fallacious. Could it be him? Sure, much of it has been, but more of it has been all the other parts not working. He was not handled correctly and neither has the chaos of the offense.

Until all the problems on offense are fixed, I don't think Alex will do great, and because of that, I'd be happy to see him succeed somewhere else (unless it's in the NFC West or the Cowboys).

It's worth noting that McNabb was a much better QB last year playing for a good team. Now his stats are lousy, as he plays for a bad team. I think Vick has benefited greatly playing for Reid, a QB guru, as well having a guy named DeSean Jackson to throw to.

That is the point some of the so called "Smith Lovers" have been trying to make. How can you expect a QB to be successful on a s**ty team? McNabb is a prime example of that. You take a probowl QB and put him on a s**ty team and you end up with a s**ty QB.

Originally posted by backontop:

Originally posted by fastforward:

Originally posted by KowboyKiller:
If Alex goes somewhere where people actually KNOW how to coach a QB with talent, and has a good support structure, he will do well.

Look at Michael Vick, never passed above 56%, was away for 2 YEARS IN PRISON, and now look how well he's playing, because he has what I just mentioned. Yes, a QB is responsible for his play, and Alex has made plenty of mistakes, but you can only isolate the problems on offense to the QB when everything else or most everything around him is working. Alex has had nothing working around him, so to isolate him as the problem is fallacious. Could it be him? Sure, much of it has been, but more of it has been all the other parts not working. He was not handled correctly and neither has the chaos of the offense.

Until all the problems on offense are fixed, I don't think Alex will do great, and because of that, I'd be happy to see him succeed somewhere else (unless it's in the NFC West or the Cowboys).

It's worth noting that McNabb was a much better QB last year playing for a good team. Now his stats are lousy, as he plays for a bad team. I think Vick has benefited greatly playing for Reid, a QB guru, as well having a guy named DeSean Jackson to throw to.

That is the point some of the so called "Smith Lovers" have been trying to make. How can you expect a QB to be successful on a s**ty team? McNabb is a prime example of that. You take a probowl QB and put him on a s**ty team and you end up with a s**ty QB.

Funny thing is, the system Mcnabb is in is >>> the system Alex is in, yet Alex is having a better year.

Originally posted by fastforward:

Originally posted by KowboyKiller:
If Alex goes somewhere where people actually KNOW how to coach a QB with talent, and has a good support structure, he will do well.

Look at Michael Vick, never passed above 56%, was away for 2 YEARS IN PRISON, and now look how well he's playing, because he has what I just mentioned. Yes, a QB is responsible for his play, and Alex has made plenty of mistakes, but you can only isolate the problems on offense to the QB when everything else or most everything around him is working. Alex has had nothing working around him, so to isolate him as the problem is fallacious. Could it be him? Sure, much of it has been, but more of it has been all the other parts not working. He was not handled correctly and neither has the chaos of the offense.

Until all the problems on offense are fixed, I don't think Alex will do great, and because of that, I'd be happy to see him succeed somewhere else (unless it's in the NFC West or the Cowboys).

It's worth noting that McNabb was a much better QB last year playing for a good team. Now his stats are lousy, as he plays for a bad team. I think Vick has benefited greatly playing for Reid, a QB guru, as well having a guy named DeSean Jackson to throw to.

You have a great point, but most guys on here are football illiterate and think the Carson Palmers and Matt Hasselbecks are a major upgrade to Alex Smith, when Palmer and Hasselbecks qb ratings this season are worst or almost worst while playing most of the season.

I see people say oh Alex has had six years, one year he didn't touch the field at all. Others he was jacked in and out of the line up and never had a sense of consistency and franchise support. Except for 2006 and we were just awful in general that year.

If we can build a offensive game plan where we operate within 1-10 yard range like the Pats for the bulk of our plays Alex can shine. With weapons like Westy, Gore, Dixon (all who can catch out the backfield) and Delanie and Vernon who get rack up some yac off of short passes we could help Alex a lot. He is use to the spread, that does not mean we have to let him heave the ball 20 yards down the field every pass play. Just keep the game right in front of him like BB does Brady.

Originally posted by binary2nd:

Originally posted by backontop:

Originally posted by fastforward:

Originally posted by KowboyKiller:
If Alex goes somewhere where people actually KNOW how to coach a QB with talent, and has a good support structure, he will do well.

Look at Michael Vick, never passed above 56%, was away for 2 YEARS IN PRISON, and now look how well he's playing, because he has what I just mentioned. Yes, a QB is responsible for his play, and Alex has made plenty of mistakes, but you can only isolate the problems on offense to the QB when everything else or most everything around him is working. Alex has had nothing working around him, so to isolate him as the problem is fallacious. Could it be him? Sure, much of it has been, but more of it has been all the other parts not working. He was not handled correctly and neither has the chaos of the offense.

Until all the problems on offense are fixed, I don't think Alex will do great, and because of that, I'd be happy to see him succeed somewhere else (unless it's in the NFC West or the Cowboys).

It's worth noting that McNabb was a much better QB last year playing for a good team. Now his stats are lousy, as he plays for a bad team. I think Vick has benefited greatly playing for Reid, a QB guru, as well having a guy named DeSean Jackson to throw to.

That is the point some of the so called "Smith Lovers" have been trying to make. How can you expect a QB to be successful on a s**ty team? McNabb is a prime example of that. You take a probowl QB and put him on a s**ty team and you end up with a s**ty QB.

Funny thing is, the system Mcnabb is in is >>> the system Alex is in, yet Alex is having a better year.

That is because Alex isn't the horrible QB some make him out to be. He is a QB who has been dealt a s**tty hand by the football gods in regards to coaching. He has his ups and downs, his flashes of *wow he might be turning this around* and his *WTF was that Alex?*

Originally posted by backontop:

Originally posted by binary2nd:

Originally posted by backontop:

Originally posted by fastforward:

Originally posted by KowboyKiller:
If Alex goes somewhere where people actually KNOW how to coach a QB with talent, and has a good support structure, he will do well.

Look at Michael Vick, never passed above 56%, was away for 2 YEARS IN PRISON, and now look how well he's playing, because he has what I just mentioned. Yes, a QB is responsible for his play, and Alex has made plenty of mistakes, but you can only isolate the problems on offense to the QB when everything else or most everything around him is working. Alex has had nothing working around him, so to isolate him as the problem is fallacious. Could it be him? Sure, much of it has been, but more of it has been all the other parts not working. He was not handled correctly and neither has the chaos of the offense.

Until all the problems on offense are fixed, I don't think Alex will do great, and because of that, I'd be happy to see him succeed somewhere else (unless it's in the NFC West or the Cowboys).

It's worth noting that McNabb was a much better QB last year playing for a good team. Now his stats are lousy, as he plays for a bad team. I think Vick has benefited greatly playing for Reid, a QB guru, as well having a guy named DeSean Jackson to throw to.

That is the point some of the so called "Smith Lovers" have been trying to make. How can you expect a QB to be successful on a s**ty team? McNabb is a prime example of that. You take a probowl QB and put him on a s**ty team and you end up with a s**ty QB.

Funny thing is, the system Mcnabb is in is >>> the system Alex is in, yet Alex is having a better year.

That is because Alex isn't the horrible QB some make him out to be. He is a QB who has been dealt a s**tty hand by the football gods in regards to coaching. He has his ups and downs, his flashes of *wow he might be turning this around* and his *WTF was that Alex?*

One thing I can say Sing has been good at is trying to manage the game and keep Alex and Troy out of jacked situations. A lot of runs and short passes on 3rd and between 6-8, instead of trying to throw a strike down field. Crazy thing is I have seen us convert a lot of 3rd and 6+ yards on runs. If not we have the best punter in the game to boot it off and let our defense get the ball back for us. Only problem is the secondary hasn't given us much support and Ginn has only had a few wow moments on ST. I'm more concerned about us getting some plays from the secondary and big returns from ST.

Originally posted by 24plus25er:

Originally posted by backontop:

Originally posted by binary2nd:

Originally posted by backontop:

Originally posted by fastforward:

Originally posted by KowboyKiller:
If Alex goes somewhere where people actually KNOW how to coach a QB with talent, and has a good support structure, he will do well.

Look at Michael Vick, never passed above 56%, was away for 2 YEARS IN PRISON, and now look how well he's playing, because he has what I just mentioned. Yes, a QB is responsible for his play, and Alex has made plenty of mistakes, but you can only isolate the problems on offense to the QB when everything else or most everything around him is working. Alex has had nothing working around him, so to isolate him as the problem is fallacious. Could it be him? Sure, much of it has been, but more of it has been all the other parts not working. He was not handled correctly and neither has the chaos of the offense.

Until all the problems on offense are fixed, I don't think Alex will do great, and because of that, I'd be happy to see him succeed somewhere else (unless it's in the NFC West or the Cowboys).

It's worth noting that McNabb was a much better QB last year playing for a good team. Now his stats are lousy, as he plays for a bad team. I think Vick has benefited greatly playing for Reid, a QB guru, as well having a guy named DeSean Jackson to throw to.

That is the point some of the so called "Smith Lovers" have been trying to make. How can you expect a QB to be successful on a s**ty team? McNabb is a prime example of that. You take a probowl QB and put him on a s**ty team and you end up with a s**ty QB.

Funny thing is, the system Mcnabb is in is >>> the system Alex is in, yet Alex is having a better year.

That is because Alex isn't the horrible QB some make him out to be. He is a QB who has been dealt a s**tty hand by the football gods in regards to coaching. He has his ups and downs, his flashes of *wow he might be turning this around* and his *WTF was that Alex?*

One thing I can say Sing has been good at is trying to manage the game and keep Alex and Troy out of jacked situations. A lot of runs and short passes on 3rd and between 6-8, instead of trying to throw a strike down field. Crazy thing is I have seen us convert a lot of 3rd and 6+ yards on runs. If not we have the best punter in the game to boot it off and let our defense get the ball back for us. Only problem is the secondary hasn't given us much support and Ginn has only had a few wow moments on ST. I'm more concerned about us getting some plays from the secondary and big returns from ST.

That hasn't exactly worked out for us so far this season. Our defense is soft and just lets opposing offenses do what they wish.

Originally posted by binary2nd:

Originally posted by backontop:

Originally posted by fastforward:

Originally posted by KowboyKiller:
If Alex goes somewhere where people actually KNOW how to coach a QB with talent, and has a good support structure, he will do well.

Look at Michael Vick, never passed above 56%, was away for 2 YEARS IN PRISON, and now look how well he's playing, because he has what I just mentioned. Yes, a QB is responsible for his play, and Alex has made plenty of mistakes, but you can only isolate the problems on offense to the QB when everything else or most everything around him is working. Alex has had nothing working around him, so to isolate him as the problem is fallacious. Could it be him? Sure, much of it has been, but more of it has been all the other parts not working. He was not handled correctly and neither has the chaos of the offense.

Until all the problems on offense are fixed, I don't think Alex will do great, and because of that, I'd be happy to see him succeed somewhere else (unless it's in the NFC West or the Cowboys).

It's worth noting that McNabb was a much better QB last year playing for a good team. Now his stats are lousy, as he plays for a bad team. I think Vick has benefited greatly playing for Reid, a QB guru, as well having a guy named DeSean Jackson to throw to.

That is the point some of the so called "Smith Lovers" have been trying to make. How can you expect a QB to be successful on a s**ty team? McNabb is a prime example of that. You take a probowl QB and put him on a s**ty team and you end up with a s**ty QB.

Funny thing is, the system Mcnabb is in is >>> the system Alex is in, yet Alex is having a better year.

McNabb also serves as a primary example of the struggles that a QB has in switching systems, even those with less major differences (both Eagles and Redskins employ offshoots of the good old WCO.) Vick has the advantage of having the whole year to digest Reid's system. That's why I don't think trading for Kolb will work in the short-term for the 49ers unless the 49ers also sign the Eagles' OC.

Originally posted by fastforward:

Originally posted by binary2nd:

Originally posted by backontop:

Originally posted by fastforward:

Originally posted by KowboyKiller:
If Alex goes somewhere where people actually KNOW how to coach a QB with talent, and has a good support structure, he will do well.

Look at Michael Vick, never passed above 56%, was away for 2 YEARS IN PRISON, and now look how well he's playing, because he has what I just mentioned. Yes, a QB is responsible for his play, and Alex has made plenty of mistakes, but you can only isolate the problems on offense to the QB when everything else or most everything around him is working. Alex has had nothing working around him, so to isolate him as the problem is fallacious. Could it be him? Sure, much of it has been, but more of it has been all the other parts not working. He was not handled correctly and neither has the chaos of the offense.

Until all the problems on offense are fixed, I don't think Alex will do great, and because of that, I'd be happy to see him succeed somewhere else (unless it's in the NFC West or the Cowboys).

It's worth noting that McNabb was a much better QB last year playing for a good team. Now his stats are lousy, as he plays for a bad team. I think Vick has benefited greatly playing for Reid, a QB guru, as well having a guy named DeSean Jackson to throw to.

That is the point some of the so called "Smith Lovers" have been trying to make. How can you expect a QB to be successful on a s**ty team? McNabb is a prime example of that. You take a probowl QB and put him on a s**ty team and you end up with a s**ty QB.

Funny thing is, the system Mcnabb is in is >>> the system Alex is in, yet Alex is having a better year.

McNabb also serves as a primary example of the struggles that a QB has in switching systems, even those with less major differences (both Eagles and Redskins employ offshoots of the good old WCO.) Vick has the advantage of having the whole year to digest Reid's system. That's why I don't think trading for Kolb will work in the short-term for the 49ers unless the 49ers also sign the Eagles' OC.

look at what happened to Favre when he signed with the Jets. He had to learn a new playbook and he struggled. He then signed with Min who ran a system very similar to the one he ran in GB and he played very well.

Originally posted by backontop:

Originally posted by fastforward:

Originally posted by binary2nd:

Originally posted by backontop:

Originally posted by fastforward:

Originally posted by KowboyKiller:
If Alex goes somewhere where people actually KNOW how to coach a QB with talent, and has a good support structure, he will do well.

Look at Michael Vick, never passed above 56%, was away for 2 YEARS IN PRISON, and now look how well he's playing, because he has what I just mentioned. Yes, a QB is responsible for his play, and Alex has made plenty of mistakes, but you can only isolate the problems on offense to the QB when everything else or most everything around him is working. Alex has had nothing working around him, so to isolate him as the problem is fallacious. Could it be him? Sure, much of it has been, but more of it has been all the other parts not working. He was not handled correctly and neither has the chaos of the offense.

Until all the problems on offense are fixed, I don't think Alex will do great, and because of that, I'd be happy to see him succeed somewhere else (unless it's in the NFC West or the Cowboys).

It's worth noting that McNabb was a much better QB last year playing for a good team. Now his stats are lousy, as he plays for a bad team. I think Vick has benefited greatly playing for Reid, a QB guru, as well having a guy named DeSean Jackson to throw to.

That is the point some of the so called "Smith Lovers" have been trying to make. How can you expect a QB to be successful on a s**ty team? McNabb is a prime example of that. You take a probowl QB and put him on a s**ty team and you end up with a s**ty QB.

Funny thing is, the system Mcnabb is in is >>> the system Alex is in, yet Alex is having a better year.

McNabb also serves as a primary example of the struggles that a QB has in switching systems, even those with less major differences (both Eagles and Redskins employ offshoots of the good old WCO.) Vick has the advantage of having the whole year to digest Reid's system. That's why I don't think trading for Kolb will work in the short-term for the 49ers unless the 49ers also sign the Eagles' OC.

look at what happened to Favre when he signed with the Jets. He had to learn a new playbook and he struggled. He then signed with Min who ran a system very similar to the one he ran in GB and he played very well.

Until he went into videomaking business...

Originally posted by fastforward:

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:

Originally posted by VA9erfan:
I can't wait for some here to get what they ask for.....A. Smith to be gone. Let's hear YOUR plan for next year if / after he is cut loose.

Honestly, do you really think it's going to be impossible to find someone who:

~can do better than 18-30 as a starter?
~has a career passer rating of 71?
~has a career completion % of 56.9?
~has thrown 52 picks to 49 TDs?
~has 85 turnovers in 51 games played
~has never won more than 7 games in a season as a starter?

Is this all Alex's fault? Of course not; he's had to deal with things that few rookie/young QBs have had to...and I actually like Alex as a person and as a man. But there comes a point where Smith fans have to look at the player and see him for what he's done. And what he's done is not pretty.

Findng someone to do better than Smith will not be as difficult as you (and many others) make it seem. It's time to move on (both for him, and for the team).

I don't mean to pick on you, or this post, since I already responded to it, however, I just heard Clark Judge of CBS Sports interviewed on KNBR. Judge is a pretty good football guy who watches the NFL pretty closely. His opinion on the bolded part of you post is worth noting.

Rod Brooks asked him directly about the chances of getting Kevin Kolb next year, or if there was someone else that would be of that same level of player that could step in with the 49ers next year.

Judge replied at two levels; one, that the Eagles might be forced to trade Kolb if they give a lot of money to Michael Vick (which everyone believes they will), and two, that there isn't any other backup QB around the league now that would be anywhere close to Kolb quality.

So that comes back to a point I made in one of this ridiculously long string of Alex Smith/QB threads. Alex is as good or better than any FA they might get to replace him so making an attempt to keep him at least until a rookie can get ready.

The other option is one I don't want to consider because it involves meeting Philly's asking price of a #1 in 2011 and at least a #2 in 2012 for Kolb. (I have read Philly really is asking for two #1s.) If that were to happen, it would set this team back another 2 years at the least.

As you said, this team is not as close to the playoffs (except for making it as the NFC West winner) as some think. If they are forced to give up on Alex completely it means they will be forced to use their #1 pick on a QB. That means that pick better be darn good very soon because without a pass rusher to protect a weak secondary, this defense is going to give up a lot of points and will need a VERY good QB that can put enough points on the board to offset the defensive shortcomings.

As Judge said, if you have the #1 overall pick and you miss and that guy doesn't turn out to be the guy, it sets the team back a minimum of 5 years. It doesn't really matter that Smith couldn't have been managed worse, the time to pay for that mistake is now upon us.

So there you have it. The question is; are the 49ers willing to give up two #1 picks for Kevin Kolb, or do they use those picks on a rookie like Cam Newton and try to get by with some combination of Troy and Nate?

Tough choice.

Philly can ask for what they want, but nobody in their right mind will give them two 1st rounders for Kolb, and they know that...in fact, they won't even get one pure 1st rounder for him. I think something closer to what the Texans did for Schaub (swapping 1st round picks with ATL, and two 2nds over 2 years) will be closer to reality. So would I swap 1st rounders with Philly and give them, say, a 3rd rounder in the upcoming draft for Kolb? That I would consider.

I could get my young QB (Kolb) and still have a 1st rounder (albeit a late 1st) to address my secondary (CB Gibson from Miami?), and use the 2nd to shore up my d-line (NTs Powe/Jenkins or DEs Kerrigan/Acho?).

The real question is: will Kolb fit the 49ers? IMO: no.

After being coached up by one of the better offensive minds in the league (Reid) for the last 4 years, you don't think Kolb could produce...especially under a head coach like Harbaugh or Gruden?

I think a Kolb/Gruden (or Harbaugh) combination is the kind of pairing that could kick-start the organization and begin the long climb back to the top.

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:

Originally posted by fastforward:

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:

Originally posted by VA9erfan:
I can't wait for some here to get what they ask for.....A. Smith to be gone. Let's hear YOUR plan for next year if / after he is cut loose.

Honestly, do you really think it's going to be impossible to find someone who:

~can do better than 18-30 as a starter?
~has a career passer rating of 71?
~has a career completion % of 56.9?
~has thrown 52 picks to 49 TDs?
~has 85 turnovers in 51 games played
~has never won more than 7 games in a season as a starter?

Is this all Alex's fault? Of course not; he's had to deal with things that few rookie/young QBs have had to...and I actually like Alex as a person and as a man. But there comes a point where Smith fans have to look at the player and see him for what he's done. And what he's done is not pretty.

Findng someone to do better than Smith will not be as difficult as you (and many others) make it seem. It's time to move on (both for him, and for the team).

I don't mean to pick on you, or this post, since I already responded to it, however, I just heard Clark Judge of CBS Sports interviewed on KNBR. Judge is a pretty good football guy who watches the NFL pretty closely. His opinion on the bolded part of you post is worth noting.

Rod Brooks asked him directly about the chances of getting Kevin Kolb next year, or if there was someone else that would be of that same level of player that could step in with the 49ers next year.

Judge replied at two levels; one, that the Eagles might be forced to trade Kolb if they give a lot of money to Michael Vick (which everyone believes they will), and two, that there isn't any other backup QB around the league now that would be anywhere close to Kolb quality.

So that comes back to a point I made in one of this ridiculously long string of Alex Smith/QB threads. Alex is as good or better than any FA they might get to replace him so making an attempt to keep him at least until a rookie can get ready.

The other option is one I don't want to consider because it involves meeting Philly's asking price of a #1 in 2011 and at least a #2 in 2012 for Kolb. (I have read Philly really is asking for two #1s.) If that were to happen, it would set this team back another 2 years at the least.

As you said, this team is not as close to the playoffs (except for making it as the NFC West winner) as some think. If they are forced to give up on Alex completely it means they will be forced to use their #1 pick on a QB. That means that pick better be darn good very soon because without a pass rusher to protect a weak secondary, this defense is going to give up a lot of points and will need a VERY good QB that can put enough points on the board to offset the defensive shortcomings.

As Judge said, if you have the #1 overall pick and you miss and that guy doesn't turn out to be the guy, it sets the team back a minimum of 5 years. It doesn't really matter that Smith couldn't have been managed worse, the time to pay for that mistake is now upon us.

So there you have it. The question is; are the 49ers willing to give up two #1 picks for Kevin Kolb, or do they use those picks on a rookie like Cam Newton and try to get by with some combination of Troy and Nate?

Tough choice.

Philly can ask for what they want, but nobody in their right mind will give them two 1st rounders for Kolb, and they know that...in fact, they won't even get one pure 1st rounder for him. I think something closer to what the Texans did for Schaub (swapping 1st round picks with ATL, and two 2nds over 2 years) will be closer to reality. So would I swap 1st rounders with Philly and give them, say, a 3rd rounder in the upcoming draft for Kolb? That I would consider.

I could get my young QB (Kolb) and still have a 1st rounder (albeit a late 1st) to address my secondary (CB Gibson from Miami?), and use the 2nd to shore up my d-line (NTs Powe/Jenkins or DEs Kerrigan/Acho?).

The real question is: will Kolb fit the 49ers? IMO: no.

After being coached up by one of the better offensive minds in the league (Reid) for the last 4 years, you don't think Kolb could produce...especially under a head coach like Harbaugh or Gruden?

I think a Kolb/Gruden (or Harbaugh) combination is the kind of pairing that could kick-start the organization and begin the long climb back to the top.

I'd love to get Kolb but I doubt is going anywhere. Then again for the right price..who knows.

Originally posted by LambdaChi49:

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:

Originally posted by fastforward:

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:

Originally posted by VA9erfan:
I can't wait for some here to get what they ask for.....A. Smith to be gone. Let's hear YOUR plan for next year if / after he is cut loose.

Honestly, do you really think it's going to be impossible to find someone who:

~can do better than 18-30 as a starter?
~has a career passer rating of 71?
~has a career completion % of 56.9?
~has thrown 52 picks to 49 TDs?
~has 85 turnovers in 51 games played
~has never won more than 7 games in a season as a starter?

Is this all Alex's fault? Of course not; he's had to deal with things that few rookie/young QBs have had to...and I actually like Alex as a person and as a man. But there comes a point where Smith fans have to look at the player and see him for what he's done. And what he's done is not pretty.

Findng someone to do better than Smith will not be as difficult as you (and many others) make it seem. It's time to move on (both for him, and for the team).

I don't mean to pick on you, or this post, since I already responded to it, however, I just heard Clark Judge of CBS Sports interviewed on KNBR. Judge is a pretty good football guy who watches the NFL pretty closely. His opinion on the bolded part of you post is worth noting.

Rod Brooks asked him directly about the chances of getting Kevin Kolb next year, or if there was someone else that would be of that same level of player that could step in with the 49ers next year.

Judge replied at two levels; one, that the Eagles might be forced to trade Kolb if they give a lot of money to Michael Vick (which everyone believes they will), and two, that there isn't any other backup QB around the league now that would be anywhere close to Kolb quality.

So that comes back to a point I made in one of this ridiculously long string of Alex Smith/QB threads. Alex is as good or better than any FA they might get to replace him so making an attempt to keep him at least until a rookie can get ready.

The other option is one I don't want to consider because it involves meeting Philly's asking price of a #1 in 2011 and at least a #2 in 2012 for Kolb. (I have read Philly really is asking for two #1s.) If that were to happen, it would set this team back another 2 years at the least.

As you said, this team is not as close to the playoffs (except for making it as the NFC West winner) as some think. If they are forced to give up on Alex completely it means they will be forced to use their #1 pick on a QB. That means that pick better be darn good very soon because without a pass rusher to protect a weak secondary, this defense is going to give up a lot of points and will need a VERY good QB that can put enough points on the board to offset the defensive shortcomings.

As Judge said, if you have the #1 overall pick and you miss and that guy doesn't turn out to be the guy, it sets the team back a minimum of 5 years. It doesn't really matter that Smith couldn't have been managed worse, the time to pay for that mistake is now upon us.

So there you have it. The question is; are the 49ers willing to give up two #1 picks for Kevin Kolb, or do they use those picks on a rookie like Cam Newton and try to get by with some combination of Troy and Nate?

Tough choice.

Philly can ask for what they want, but nobody in their right mind will give them two 1st rounders for Kolb, and they know that...in fact, they won't even get one pure 1st rounder for him. I think something closer to what the Texans did for Schaub (swapping 1st round picks with ATL, and two 2nds over 2 years) will be closer to reality. So would I swap 1st rounders with Philly and give them, say, a 3rd rounder in the upcoming draft for Kolb? That I would consider.

I could get my young QB (Kolb) and still have a 1st rounder (albeit a late 1st) to address my secondary (CB Gibson from Miami?), and use the 2nd to shore up my d-line (NTs Powe/Jenkins or DEs Kerrigan/Acho?).

The real question is: will Kolb fit the 49ers? IMO: no.

After being coached up by one of the better offensive minds in the league (Reid) for the last 4 years, you don't think Kolb could produce...especially under a head coach like Harbaugh or Gruden?

I think a Kolb/Gruden (or Harbaugh) combination is the kind of pairing that could kick-start the organization and begin the long climb back to the top.

I'd love to get Kolb but I doubt is going anywhere. Then again for the right price..who knows.

The Eagles are going to have to either pay Vick a ton of money to stay around or franchise him...either way, he's the starting QB now in Philly, so Kolb is the odd man out. His value will be relatively high (something like what the Texans gave ATL for Schaub a few years ago), so I can't see Philly holding on to him given how much they can get in return for a guy who is slated to be a backup.