Kawakami: Alex Smith is Good Just In Time to Play Somewhere Else

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:

Originally posted by hondakillerzx:

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:

Originally posted by hondakillerzx:

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:

Originally posted by hondakillerzx:
why the love affair for kolb? we can draft a qb and have him learn the new coaches offense instead of getting an unproven guy thats gonna be older and getting paid way more? i think they need to draft one.

You call Kolb unproven (he's thrown nearly 300 passes in the NFL) yet fail to say the same about a rookie QB who's never even taken a snap in the NFL. I find that strange. You're never exactly sure what you'll get when you sign a young veteran, but you at least have some idea (not to mention, NFL game film). As for rookies, you LITERALLY have no idea what you're going to get. They could become the next Peyton Manning or the next Ryan Leaf (it can be that extreme).

Btw, the term "love affair" is a little too strong. How about, "experienced NFL commodity who's been coached up by one of the top offensive minds in football the past 4 years."

IMO, if you pair a young guy like Kolb with a coach like Gruden (WCO backgrounds), you have a better chance at success than going with a totally unproven commodity and hoping he'll grasp NFL concepts quickly enough to be effective.

this is true but the point i was making is kolb will make way more money than the qb we draft and we will give a few high draft picks to get him. to me kolb hasnt shown anything that tells me hes going to be legit and worth trading for. a new coach will be here next year and he will go get the qb best suited for his system. with young semi experienced qbs you still dont know what your going to get, look at the raiders qb, jason has 6 years under his belt and you still dont know which camble will show up. derek anderson, probowler to toilet bowler and the list goes on and on. getting an unproven vet just as dangerous as drafting a qb except the price tag on the rookie is way less unless you draft top 5 which we wont.

Not sure what money has to do with it since there's no cap to deal with. Most NFL personnel people would disagree with you regarding Kolb. He may not be a superstar-type of QB, but if you watch what he's done when he's had his chances, he's more than capable of leading a team. People forget that he actually beat out Michal Vick to start the season, but was injured in the first game, giving Vick the chance to play (and he's done well).

Campbell and Anderson are different animals....they had multiple seasons/chances to prove their respective worth as a starting QB, and have failed to do so. We've only seen glimpses of what Kolb can do, and so far, he's done well.

Listen, I get that you don't like Kolb (in comparison to a rookie) and that's your right. I just think after the Alex Smith experiment, this organization is not in a position to entrust it's success to a rookie QB. I'd rather gamble on someone who's already played in the league and has shown they can handle a complex playbook/scheme, and win games in the NFL. That's just my take.

i dont know where your getting this insider info on what most nfl people think but i just dont see kolb being that special. anderson was kind of unproven in cleveland and then had that great season and then went on after that and sucked. anderson showed more that one awesome year that kolb has and he turned out to be crap so kolb showing even less and will have a pretty high price as far as trade value and salary cap, there will eventually be a salary cap its not gonna be uncapped forever. i agree that we shouldnt put all our eggs into one basket with a rookie qb. i would sign a capable veteran, no superstar is going to be available but a capable veteran for a year or two while the rookie sits and learns behind him in the new offense. just a stop gap guy that can play while we set up our franchise qb for long term success.

But what does Derek Anderson have to do with Kevin Kolb? They're two different players with two different histories. Your logic is failing here. Anderson had 1 pretty good year, then WITH THE SAME TEAM, had 2 miserable years after that. He then went to AZ and has had an even worse year. We already know what he is because he's proven it...he's a bad QB.

Kolb is still unproven either way, I'll grant you that. But just because someone like Derek Anderson goes down this path, doesn't mean ALL young veteran QBs will turn out like he did. Look at guys like Kyle Orton (4th ranked QB in the league) or Matt Schaub (5th ranked QB in the league)...both were young but relatively unproven veterans who were traded and have done very well statistically speaking.

Now, if their respective defenses weren't so bad (28th and 29th ranked), they might actually have winning records. But my point is, you can get a young (and relatively unproven) veteran to come in and play well for you. But using Anderson as a comparison, is totally off-base here.

i wouldnt say its off base. us getting kolb and the browns giving anderson more money based on potential is about the same. they were both young and have shown that they "could" be good. anderson failing is the aftermath but at the time they didnt know he would suck and we dont know if kolb will suck once he gets to play every sunday and teams get used to him. and if you can get a young and unproven nfl veteran to play for you why would that be better than just drafting a rookie whom you still dont know about but is younger and has a fresh mind to mold and hasnt picked up bad habits or tendencies or differing techniques on how to do something from another coaching staff? drafting a qb gives you a clean slate. dont look at the alex smith saga, that was a sham from day one, they did everything wrong as far as developing a young qb. if we get a new coach, drafting a youngster for him to train is the way to go. kolb may be good, or he may just look goob because the eagles are a good team and have andy reid.

Originally posted by nickbradley:
Notorious Smith-Hater Kawakami says that Alex Smith is turning it on as a mature quarterback just in time to go play elsewhere...his argument is why would anyone want to stay with this franchise?

I really, REALLY don't want to see Alex Smith throw for 4,000 yards in Minnesota next year...

http://blogs.mercurynews.com/kawakami/2010/12/12/alex-smith-the-return-2/

This guy is a Raider douche, whatta you expect. Him and Killion's love child is Lowell Cohn.

~Ceadder

Originally posted by hondakillerzx:

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:

Originally posted by hondakillerzx:

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:

Originally posted by hondakillerzx:
why the love affair for kolb? we can draft a qb and have him learn the new coaches offense instead of getting an unproven guy thats gonna be older and getting paid way more? i think they need to draft one.

You call Kolb unproven (he's thrown nearly 300 passes in the NFL) yet fail to say the same about a rookie QB who's never even taken a snap in the NFL. I find that strange. You're never exactly sure what you'll get when you sign a young veteran, but you at least have some idea (not to mention, NFL game film). As for rookies, you LITERALLY have no idea what you're going to get. They could become the next Peyton Manning or the next Ryan Leaf (it can be that extreme).

Btw, the term "love affair" is a little too strong. How about, "experienced NFL commodity who's been coached up by one of the top offensive minds in football the past 4 years."

IMO, if you pair a young guy like Kolb with a coach like Gruden (WCO backgrounds), you have a better chance at success than going with a totally unproven commodity and hoping he'll grasp NFL concepts quickly enough to be effective.

this is true but the point i was making is kolb will make way more money than the qb we draft and we will give a few high draft picks to get him. to me kolb hasnt shown anything that tells me hes going to be legit and worth trading for. a new coach will be here next year and he will go get the qb best suited for his system. with young semi experienced qbs you still dont know what your going to get, look at the raiders qb, jason has 6 years under his belt and you still dont know which camble will show up. derek anderson, probowler to toilet bowler and the list goes on and on. getting an unproven vet just as dangerous as drafting a qb except the price tag on the rookie is way less unless you draft top 5 which we wont.

Not sure what money has to do with it since there's no cap to deal with. Most NFL personnel people would disagree with you regarding Kolb. He may not be a superstar-type of QB, but if you watch what he's done when he's had his chances, he's more than capable of leading a team. People forget that he actually beat out Michal Vick to start the season, but was injured in the first game, giving Vick the chance to play (and he's done well).

Campbell and Anderson are different animals....they had multiple seasons/chances to prove their respective worth as a starting QB, and have failed to do so. We've only seen glimpses of what Kolb can do, and so far, he's done well.

Listen, I get that you don't like Kolb (in comparison to a rookie) and that's your right. I just think after the Alex Smith experiment, this organization is not in a position to entrust it's success to a rookie QB. I'd rather gamble on someone who's already played in the league and has shown they can handle a complex playbook/scheme, and win games in the NFL. That's just my take.

i dont know where your getting this insider info on what most nfl people think but i just dont see kolb being that special. anderson was kind of unproven in cleveland and then had that great season and then went on after that and sucked. anderson showed more that one awesome year that kolb has and he turned out to be crap so kolb showing even less and will have a pretty high price as far as trade value and salary cap, there will eventually be a salary cap its not gonna be uncapped forever. i agree that we shouldnt put all our eggs into one basket with a rookie qb. i would sign a capable veteran, no superstar is going to be available but a capable veteran for a year or two while the rookie sits and learns behind him in the new offense. just a stop gap guy that can play while we set up our franchise qb for long term success.

Anderson's best year was 2007. He completed 56%, 29 TDs, 19 INTs, rating 82. Nothing special. He had 5 very good games early in the season and then crashed. By the 12th game the fans were crying for his head.

Kolb, in 11 games combined last year and this, completed 64%, 10 TDs, 7 INTs, 87 rating.

Based on those numbers, Kolb is clearly superior though I don't like his INTs.

he's right...why would anyone stay with this craphole franchise? i mean....look at the coaching staff, how laughable....and don't forget the owners, hahahahah

Hmmmmm, maybe the Rat is Alex.

~Ceadder

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:

Originally posted by fastforward:

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:

Originally posted by fastforward:

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:

Originally posted by VA9erfan:
I can't wait for some here to get what they ask for.....A. Smith to be gone. Let's hear YOUR plan for next year if / after he is cut loose.

Honestly, do you really think it's going to be impossible to find someone who:

~can do better than 18-30 as a starter?
~has a career passer rating of 71?
~has a career completion % of 56.9?
~has thrown 52 picks to 49 TDs?
~has 85 turnovers in 51 games played
~has never won more than 7 games in a season as a starter?

Is this all Alex's fault? Of course not; he's had to deal with things that few rookie/young QBs have had to...and I actually like Alex as a person and as a man. But there comes a point where Smith fans have to look at the player and see him for what he's done. And what he's done is not pretty.

Findng someone to do better than Smith will not be as difficult as you (and many others) make it seem. It's time to move on (both for him, and for the team).

I don't mean to pick on you, or this post, since I already responded to it, however, I just heard Clark Judge of CBS Sports interviewed on KNBR. Judge is a pretty good football guy who watches the NFL pretty closely. His opinion on the bolded part of you post is worth noting.

Rod Brooks asked him directly about the chances of getting Kevin Kolb next year, or if there was someone else that would be of that same level of player that could step in with the 49ers next year.

Judge replied at two levels; one, that the Eagles might be forced to trade Kolb if they give a lot of money to Michael Vick (which everyone believes they will), and two, that there isn't any other backup QB around the league now that would be anywhere close to Kolb quality.

So that comes back to a point I made in one of this ridiculously long string of Alex Smith/QB threads. Alex is as good or better than any FA they might get to replace him so making an attempt to keep him at least until a rookie can get ready.

The other option is one I don't want to consider because it involves meeting Philly's asking price of a #1 in 2011 and at least a #2 in 2012 for Kolb. (I have read Philly really is asking for two #1s.) If that were to happen, it would set this team back another 2 years at the least.

As you said, this team is not as close to the playoffs (except for making it as the NFC West winner) as some think. If they are forced to give up on Alex completely it means they will be forced to use their #1 pick on a QB. That means that pick better be darn good very soon because without a pass rusher to protect a weak secondary, this defense is going to give up a lot of points and will need a VERY good QB that can put enough points on the board to offset the defensive shortcomings.

As Judge said, if you have the #1 overall pick and you miss and that guy doesn't turn out to be the guy, it sets the team back a minimum of 5 years. It doesn't really matter that Smith couldn't have been managed worse, the time to pay for that mistake is now upon us.

So there you have it. The question is; are the 49ers willing to give up two #1 picks for Kevin Kolb, or do they use those picks on a rookie like Cam Newton and try to get by with some combination of Troy and Nate?

Tough choice.

Philly can ask for what they want, but nobody in their right mind will give them two 1st rounders for Kolb, and they know that...in fact, they won't even get one pure 1st rounder for him. I think something closer to what the Texans did for Schaub (swapping 1st round picks with ATL, and two 2nds over 2 years) will be closer to reality. So would I swap 1st rounders with Philly and give them, say, a 3rd rounder in the upcoming draft for Kolb? That I would consider.

I could get my young QB (Kolb) and still have a 1st rounder (albeit a late 1st) to address my secondary (CB Gibson from Miami?), and use the 2nd to shore up my d-line (NTs Powe/Jenkins or DEs Kerrigan/Acho?).

The real question is: will Kolb fit the 49ers? IMO: no.

After being coached up by one of the better offensive minds in the league (Reid) for the last 4 years, you don't think Kolb could produce...especially under a head coach like Harbaugh or Gruden?

I think a Kolb/Gruden (or Harbaugh) combination is the kind of pairing that could kick-start the organization and begin the long climb back to the top.

One: Kolb doesn't fit the 49ers right now. Two: it remains to be seen if the 49ers will be able to hire Gruden or Harbaugh. Three: Kolb will have to switch systems; if McNabb's experience in Washington is of any indication, switching systems even with minor differences is tough to do, and Kolb will have his work cut out for him. If he has had a hard time grabbing the rein from Vick, what's the likelihood that he'll be more successful somewhere else?

Obviously this is predicated on a coaching change (which is very likely). If we're unable to hire Gruden or Harbaugh, I'm not sure I'd go with Kolb. Reason being, Kolb should be able to slide into Gruden's system relatively easily. The transition to Harbaugh's system might be a little trickier since it's not a WCO-style...but it shouldn't be impossible to do. Coaches/systems change in the NFL, and QBs must adapt.

As for McNabb struggling, I'm not sure there's a lesson to be learned there in terms of Kolb because McNabb didn't actually switch systems per se. The Skins run a WCO not unlike Philly (in terms of terminology)...he's just not playing well, and he has a lot less weapons to work with than he did in Philly.

As for Kolb not being able to beat out Vick...MV is the 2nd rated passer in the league (behind Brady), so it's not like he's being beaten out by a bum or a guy who's playing terribly.

Kolb has been good, but only under Reid's system. McNabb's poor playing has, IMHO, been due in part to his adapting to Shanahan's on-the-surface-similar-but-still-distinctive system. Again my point was the word "right now". With time, most QBs will learn to adapt (for all of his inconsistencies, Smith is getting much better with MJ's system), but do you want to trade your team away to get a QB who will likely take a year or two to fully adapt - which will be the case if the 49ers go with a coach whose calling is not WCO? Cassel's failure last year, and success this year is also an example of the learning curve QBs have to go through.

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by hondakillerzx:

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:

Originally posted by hondakillerzx:

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:

Originally posted by hondakillerzx:
why the love affair for kolb? we can draft a qb and have him learn the new coaches offense instead of getting an unproven guy thats gonna be older and getting paid way more? i think they need to draft one.

You call Kolb unproven (he's thrown nearly 300 passes in the NFL) yet fail to say the same about a rookie QB who's never even taken a snap in the NFL. I find that strange. You're never exactly sure what you'll get when you sign a young veteran, but you at least have some idea (not to mention, NFL game film). As for rookies, you LITERALLY have no idea what you're going to get. They could become the next Peyton Manning or the next Ryan Leaf (it can be that extreme).

Btw, the term "love affair" is a little too strong. How about, "experienced NFL commodity who's been coached up by one of the top offensive minds in football the past 4 years."

IMO, if you pair a young guy like Kolb with a coach like Gruden (WCO backgrounds), you have a better chance at success than going with a totally unproven commodity and hoping he'll grasp NFL concepts quickly enough to be effective.

this is true but the point i was making is kolb will make way more money than the qb we draft and we will give a few high draft picks to get him. to me kolb hasnt shown anything that tells me hes going to be legit and worth trading for. a new coach will be here next year and he will go get the qb best suited for his system. with young semi experienced qbs you still dont know what your going to get, look at the raiders qb, jason has 6 years under his belt and you still dont know which camble will show up. derek anderson, probowler to toilet bowler and the list goes on and on. getting an unproven vet just as dangerous as drafting a qb except the price tag on the rookie is way less unless you draft top 5 which we wont.

Not sure what money has to do with it since there's no cap to deal with. Most NFL personnel people would disagree with you regarding Kolb. He may not be a superstar-type of QB, but if you watch what he's done when he's had his chances, he's more than capable of leading a team. People forget that he actually beat out Michal Vick to start the season, but was injured in the first game, giving Vick the chance to play (and he's done well).

Campbell and Anderson are different animals....they had multiple seasons/chances to prove their respective worth as a starting QB, and have failed to do so. We've only seen glimpses of what Kolb can do, and so far, he's done well.

Listen, I get that you don't like Kolb (in comparison to a rookie) and that's your right. I just think after the Alex Smith experiment, this organization is not in a position to entrust it's success to a rookie QB. I'd rather gamble on someone who's already played in the league and has shown they can handle a complex playbook/scheme, and win games in the NFL. That's just my take.

i dont know where your getting this insider info on what most nfl people think but i just dont see kolb being that special. anderson was kind of unproven in cleveland and then had that great season and then went on after that and sucked. anderson showed more that one awesome year that kolb has and he turned out to be crap so kolb showing even less and will have a pretty high price as far as trade value and salary cap, there will eventually be a salary cap its not gonna be uncapped forever. i agree that we shouldnt put all our eggs into one basket with a rookie qb. i would sign a capable veteran, no superstar is going to be available but a capable veteran for a year or two while the rookie sits and learns behind him in the new offense. just a stop gap guy that can play while we set up our franchise qb for long term success.

Anderson's best year was 2007. He completed 56%, 29 TDs, 19 INTs, rating 82. Nothing special. He had 5 very good games early in the season and then crashed. By the 12th game the fans were crying for his head.

Kolb, in 11 games combined last year and this, completed 64%, 10 TDs, 7 INTs, 87 rating.

Based on those numbers, Kolb is clearly superior though I don't like his INTs.

His interceptions are definitely worrisome because Kolb is playing under WCO which stresses high percentage passes. Jeff Garcia is a primary case of how a good QB fares under WCO: his TDs are twice the number of interceptions. I cringe thinking of how Kolb's interception rate would be had he played for a Raiders vertical type of offense.

Originally posted by mustangmele:
I'm telling you right now, if Alex goes somewhere else and starts he'll probably do a pretty decent job and you're going to see a lot of people on this board whinning and complaining. I could see it happening. I've never seen QB in niners history set up for failure like him. But hey, that's the real world.

I'd love if Alex finishes strong and they retain him and then draft a QB in the first or secod round and let the best man win the job. Sort of what San Diego did with Brees and Rivers. Alex is good enough to lead a team to the playoffs at this point in his career. People don't give him enough credit for those long drives he pulled off earlier in the season only for some receiver to fumble or screw it up somehow.

Where i agree with most of what you said......lets not forget that AS F@!&@ up a lot of those drives too.

Originally posted by fastforward:

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:

Originally posted by fastforward:

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:

Originally posted by fastforward:

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:

Originally posted by VA9erfan:
I can't wait for some here to get what they ask for.....A. Smith to be gone. Let's hear YOUR plan for next year if / after he is cut loose.

Honestly, do you really think it's going to be impossible to find someone who:

~can do better than 18-30 as a starter?
~has a career passer rating of 71?
~has a career completion % of 56.9?
~has thrown 52 picks to 49 TDs?
~has 85 turnovers in 51 games played
~has never won more than 7 games in a season as a starter?

Is this all Alex's fault? Of course not; he's had to deal with things that few rookie/young QBs have had to...and I actually like Alex as a person and as a man. But there comes a point where Smith fans have to look at the player and see him for what he's done. And what he's done is not pretty.

Findng someone to do better than Smith will not be as difficult as you (and many others) make it seem. It's time to move on (both for him, and for the team).

I don't mean to pick on you, or this post, since I already responded to it, however, I just heard Clark Judge of CBS Sports interviewed on KNBR. Judge is a pretty good football guy who watches the NFL pretty closely. His opinion on the bolded part of you post is worth noting.

Rod Brooks asked him directly about the chances of getting Kevin Kolb next year, or if there was someone else that would be of that same level of player that could step in with the 49ers next year.

Judge replied at two levels; one, that the Eagles might be forced to trade Kolb if they give a lot of money to Michael Vick (which everyone believes they will), and two, that there isn't any other backup QB around the league now that would be anywhere close to Kolb quality.

So that comes back to a point I made in one of this ridiculously long string of Alex Smith/QB threads. Alex is as good or better than any FA they might get to replace him so making an attempt to keep him at least until a rookie can get ready.

The other option is one I don't want to consider because it involves meeting Philly's asking price of a #1 in 2011 and at least a #2 in 2012 for Kolb. (I have read Philly really is asking for two #1s.) If that were to happen, it would set this team back another 2 years at the least.

As you said, this team is not as close to the playoffs (except for making it as the NFC West winner) as some think. If they are forced to give up on Alex completely it means they will be forced to use their #1 pick on a QB. That means that pick better be darn good very soon because without a pass rusher to protect a weak secondary, this defense is going to give up a lot of points and will need a VERY good QB that can put enough points on the board to offset the defensive shortcomings.

As Judge said, if you have the #1 overall pick and you miss and that guy doesn't turn out to be the guy, it sets the team back a minimum of 5 years. It doesn't really matter that Smith couldn't have been managed worse, the time to pay for that mistake is now upon us.

So there you have it. The question is; are the 49ers willing to give up two #1 picks for Kevin Kolb, or do they use those picks on a rookie like Cam Newton and try to get by with some combination of Troy and Nate?

Tough choice.

Philly can ask for what they want, but nobody in their right mind will give them two 1st rounders for Kolb, and they know that...in fact, they won't even get one pure 1st rounder for him. I think something closer to what the Texans did for Schaub (swapping 1st round picks with ATL, and two 2nds over 2 years) will be closer to reality. So would I swap 1st rounders with Philly and give them, say, a 3rd rounder in the upcoming draft for Kolb? That I would consider.

I could get my young QB (Kolb) and still have a 1st rounder (albeit a late 1st) to address my secondary (CB Gibson from Miami?), and use the 2nd to shore up my d-line (NTs Powe/Jenkins or DEs Kerrigan/Acho?).

The real question is: will Kolb fit the 49ers? IMO: no.

After being coached up by one of the better offensive minds in the league (Reid) for the last 4 years, you don't think Kolb could produce...especially under a head coach like Harbaugh or Gruden?

I think a Kolb/Gruden (or Harbaugh) combination is the kind of pairing that could kick-start the organization and begin the long climb back to the top.

One: Kolb doesn't fit the 49ers right now. Two: it remains to be seen if the 49ers will be able to hire Gruden or Harbaugh. Three: Kolb will have to switch systems; if McNabb's experience in Washington is of any indication, switching systems even with minor differences is tough to do, and Kolb will have his work cut out for him. If he has had a hard time grabbing the rein from Vick, what's the likelihood that he'll be more successful somewhere else?

Obviously this is predicated on a coaching change (which is very likely). If we're unable to hire Gruden or Harbaugh, I'm not sure I'd go with Kolb. Reason being, Kolb should be able to slide into Gruden's system relatively easily. The transition to Harbaugh's system might be a little trickier since it's not a WCO-style...but it shouldn't be impossible to do. Coaches/systems change in the NFL, and QBs must adapt.

As for McNabb struggling, I'm not sure there's a lesson to be learned there in terms of Kolb because McNabb didn't actually switch systems per se. The Skins run a WCO not unlike Philly (in terms of terminology)...he's just not playing well, and he has a lot less weapons to work with than he did in Philly.

As for Kolb not being able to beat out Vick...MV is the 2nd rated passer in the league (behind Brady), so it's not like he's being beaten out by a bum or a guy who's playing terribly.

Kolb has been good, but only under Reid's system. McNabb's poor playing has, IMHO, been due in part to his adapting to Shanahan's on-the-surface-similar-but-still-distinctive system. Again my point was the word "right now". With time, most QBs will learn to adapt (for all of his inconsistencies, Smith is getting much better with MJ's system), but do you want to trade your team away to get a QB who will likely take a year or two to fully adapt - which will be the case if the 49ers go with a coach whose calling is not WCO? Cassel's failure last year, and success this year is also an example of the learning curve QBs have to go through.

No, I've already stated in this thread what I would trade to get Kolb...anything unreasonable and I would walk away.

Btw, I think regardless of who's Qb'ing our team next year, they will need time to adapt since there will very likely be a new coach with a new system to learn.

Now, regarding Cassel. If trading for Kolb meant we struggled his first year, but turned things around in the 2nd year to the point where we're leading our division with a 8-5 record in week 14 like the Chiefs have done....I wouldn't hesitate to pull the trigger. Sometimes you have to take 1 step back in order to take 3 steps forward.

Let Alex Smith fade into the sunset. He'll never be a good QB! He's afraid to take any risks and won't throw downfield unless the WR is wide open. A team cannot survive off a QB that constantly checks down for the safer throw.

Plus Alex's mechanics are very poor. He doesn't get his body weight/hips into the throw evidenced by the fact that he constantly throws the ball high and behind the inteneded WR.

Regardless of the number of O coordinators that we've had, Alex has had time to prove his worth. The experiment must end now!

Let's cut our losses and move on.

Originally posted by fastforward:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by hondakillerzx:

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:

Originally posted by hondakillerzx:

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:

Originally posted by hondakillerzx:
why the love affair for kolb? we can draft a qb and have him learn the new coaches offense instead of getting an unproven guy thats gonna be older and getting paid way more? i think they need to draft one.

You call Kolb unproven (he's thrown nearly 300 passes in the NFL) yet fail to say the same about a rookie QB who's never even taken a snap in the NFL. I find that strange. You're never exactly sure what you'll get when you sign a young veteran, but you at least have some idea (not to mention, NFL game film). As for rookies, you LITERALLY have no idea what you're going to get. They could become the next Peyton Manning or the next Ryan Leaf (it can be that extreme).

Btw, the term "love affair" is a little too strong. How about, "experienced NFL commodity who's been coached up by one of the top offensive minds in football the past 4 years."

IMO, if you pair a young guy like Kolb with a coach like Gruden (WCO backgrounds), you have a better chance at success than going with a totally unproven commodity and hoping he'll grasp NFL concepts quickly enough to be effective.

this is true but the point i was making is kolb will make way more money than the qb we draft and we will give a few high draft picks to get him. to me kolb hasnt shown anything that tells me hes going to be legit and worth trading for. a new coach will be here next year and he will go get the qb best suited for his system. with young semi experienced qbs you still dont know what your going to get, look at the raiders qb, jason has 6 years under his belt and you still dont know which camble will show up. derek anderson, probowler to toilet bowler and the list goes on and on. getting an unproven vet just as dangerous as drafting a qb except the price tag on the rookie is way less unless you draft top 5 which we wont.

Not sure what money has to do with it since there's no cap to deal with. Most NFL personnel people would disagree with you regarding Kolb. He may not be a superstar-type of QB, but if you watch what he's done when he's had his chances, he's more than capable of leading a team. People forget that he actually beat out Michal Vick to start the season, but was injured in the first game, giving Vick the chance to play (and he's done well).

Campbell and Anderson are different animals....they had multiple seasons/chances to prove their respective worth as a starting QB, and have failed to do so. We've only seen glimpses of what Kolb can do, and so far, he's done well.

Listen, I get that you don't like Kolb (in comparison to a rookie) and that's your right. I just think after the Alex Smith experiment, this organization is not in a position to entrust it's success to a rookie QB. I'd rather gamble on someone who's already played in the league and has shown they can handle a complex playbook/scheme, and win games in the NFL. That's just my take.

i dont know where your getting this insider info on what most nfl people think but i just dont see kolb being that special. anderson was kind of unproven in cleveland and then had that great season and then went on after that and sucked. anderson showed more that one awesome year that kolb has and he turned out to be crap so kolb showing even less and will have a pretty high price as far as trade value and salary cap, there will eventually be a salary cap its not gonna be uncapped forever. i agree that we shouldnt put all our eggs into one basket with a rookie qb. i would sign a capable veteran, no superstar is going to be available but a capable veteran for a year or two while the rookie sits and learns behind him in the new offense. just a stop gap guy that can play while we set up our franchise qb for long term success.

Anderson's best year was 2007. He completed 56%, 29 TDs, 19 INTs, rating 82. Nothing special. He had 5 very good games early in the season and then crashed. By the 12th game the fans were crying for his head.

Kolb, in 11 games combined last year and this, completed 64%, 10 TDs, 7 INTs, 87 rating.

Based on those numbers, Kolb is clearly superior though I don't like his INTs.

His interceptions are definitely worrisome because Kolb is playing under WCO which stresses high percentage passes. Jeff Garcia is a primary case of how a good QB fares under WCO: his TDs are twice the number of interceptions. I cringe thinking of how Kolb's interception rate would be had he played for a Raiders vertical type of offense.

I don't remember for sure but I think he had 3 picks in one game last year and played well other than that.

His percentage of completions is better than Montana.

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:

Originally posted by fastforward:

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:

Originally posted by fastforward:

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:

Originally posted by fastforward:

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:

Originally posted by VA9erfan:
I can't wait for some here to get what they ask for.....A. Smith to be gone. Let's hear YOUR plan for next year if / after he is cut loose.

Honestly, do you really think it's going to be impossible to find someone who:

~can do better than 18-30 as a starter?
~has a career passer rating of 71?
~has a career completion % of 56.9?
~has thrown 52 picks to 49 TDs?
~has 85 turnovers in 51 games played
~has never won more than 7 games in a season as a starter?

Is this all Alex's fault? Of course not; he's had to deal with things that few rookie/young QBs have had to...and I actually like Alex as a person and as a man. But there comes a point where Smith fans have to look at the player and see him for what he's done. And what he's done is not pretty.

Findng someone to do better than Smith will not be as difficult as you (and many others) make it seem. It's time to move on (both for him, and for the team).

I don't mean to pick on you, or this post, since I already responded to it, however, I just heard Clark Judge of CBS Sports interviewed on KNBR. Judge is a pretty good football guy who watches the NFL pretty closely. His opinion on the bolded part of you post is worth noting.

Rod Brooks asked him directly about the chances of getting Kevin Kolb next year, or if there was someone else that would be of that same level of player that could step in with the 49ers next year.

Judge replied at two levels; one, that the Eagles might be forced to trade Kolb if they give a lot of money to Michael Vick (which everyone believes they will), and two, that there isn't any other backup QB around the league now that would be anywhere close to Kolb quality.

So that comes back to a point I made in one of this ridiculously long string of Alex Smith/QB threads. Alex is as good or better than any FA they might get to replace him so making an attempt to keep him at least until a rookie can get ready.

The other option is one I don't want to consider because it involves meeting Philly's asking price of a #1 in 2011 and at least a #2 in 2012 for Kolb. (I have read Philly really is asking for two #1s.) If that were to happen, it would set this team back another 2 years at the least.

As you said, this team is not as close to the playoffs (except for making it as the NFC West winner) as some think. If they are forced to give up on Alex completely it means they will be forced to use their #1 pick on a QB. That means that pick better be darn good very soon because without a pass rusher to protect a weak secondary, this defense is going to give up a lot of points and will need a VERY good QB that can put enough points on the board to offset the defensive shortcomings.

As Judge said, if you have the #1 overall pick and you miss and that guy doesn't turn out to be the guy, it sets the team back a minimum of 5 years. It doesn't really matter that Smith couldn't have been managed worse, the time to pay for that mistake is now upon us.

So there you have it. The question is; are the 49ers willing to give up two #1 picks for Kevin Kolb, or do they use those picks on a rookie like Cam Newton and try to get by with some combination of Troy and Nate?

Tough choice.

Philly can ask for what they want, but nobody in their right mind will give them two 1st rounders for Kolb, and they know that...in fact, they won't even get one pure 1st rounder for him. I think something closer to what the Texans did for Schaub (swapping 1st round picks with ATL, and two 2nds over 2 years) will be closer to reality. So would I swap 1st rounders with Philly and give them, say, a 3rd rounder in the upcoming draft for Kolb? That I would consider.

I could get my young QB (Kolb) and still have a 1st rounder (albeit a late 1st) to address my secondary (CB Gibson from Miami?), and use the 2nd to shore up my d-line (NTs Powe/Jenkins or DEs Kerrigan/Acho?).

The real question is: will Kolb fit the 49ers? IMO: no.

After being coached up by one of the better offensive minds in the league (Reid) for the last 4 years, you don't think Kolb could produce...especially under a head coach like Harbaugh or Gruden?

I think a Kolb/Gruden (or Harbaugh) combination is the kind of pairing that could kick-start the organization and begin the long climb back to the top.

One: Kolb doesn't fit the 49ers right now. Two: it remains to be seen if the 49ers will be able to hire Gruden or Harbaugh. Three: Kolb will have to switch systems; if McNabb's experience in Washington is of any indication, switching systems even with minor differences is tough to do, and Kolb will have his work cut out for him. If he has had a hard time grabbing the rein from Vick, what's the likelihood that he'll be more successful somewhere else?

Obviously this is predicated on a coaching change (which is very likely). If we're unable to hire Gruden or Harbaugh, I'm not sure I'd go with Kolb. Reason being, Kolb should be able to slide into Gruden's system relatively easily. The transition to Harbaugh's system might be a little trickier since it's not a WCO-style...but it shouldn't be impossible to do. Coaches/systems change in the NFL, and QBs must adapt.

As for McNabb struggling, I'm not sure there's a lesson to be learned there in terms of Kolb because McNabb didn't actually switch systems per se. The Skins run a WCO not unlike Philly (in terms of terminology)...he's just not playing well, and he has a lot less weapons to work with than he did in Philly.

As for Kolb not being able to beat out Vick...MV is the 2nd rated passer in the league (behind Brady), so it's not like he's being beaten out by a bum or a guy who's playing terribly.

Kolb has been good, but only under Reid's system. McNabb's poor playing has, IMHO, been due in part to his adapting to Shanahan's on-the-surface-similar-but-still-distinctive system. Again my point was the word "right now". With time, most QBs will learn to adapt (for all of his inconsistencies, Smith is getting much better with MJ's system), but do you want to trade your team away to get a QB who will likely take a year or two to fully adapt - which will be the case if the 49ers go with a coach whose calling is not WCO? Cassel's failure last year, and success this year is also an example of the learning curve QBs have to go through.

No, I've already stated in this thread what I would trade to get Kolb...anything unreasonable and I would walk away.

Btw, I think regardless of who's Qb'ing our team next year, they will need time to adapt since there will very likely be a new coach with a new system to learn.

Now, regarding Cassel. If trading for Kolb meant we struggled his first year, but turned things around in the 2nd year to the point where we're leading our division with a 8-5 record in week 14 like the Chiefs have done....I wouldn't hesitate to pull the trigger. Sometimes you have to take 1 step back in order to take 3 steps forward.

Do you honestly think the fans have the patience to stick it out?

If they did I think Alex would be the way to go.

Hell people here(A LOT OF THE FANS HERE) wanted McNabb in the Offseason. Wanted us to pick him up and send Alex on his way.

Now that it's painfully obvious that the Coaching is 75% or more of the problem, I just cannot see any fan having the intestinal fortitude to stomach much more. I really don't. I'm fed up too, but I pointed out the foibles of making Sing the HC. I was told(just like any other topic) that I didn't know what I was talking about.

I think we're better off standing pat. But what do I know? I have no common sense and can't analyze anything Football related cause I don't get paid to do it for a living. Like the talking heads in the Media have all the answers. lol

~Ceadder

Ceaddar - If I were the coach, I wouldn't give 2 s**ts about fan reaction regarding the first year results. Generally speaking, when you overhaul your coaching staff, it's going to take time for everyone to get used to the new way of doing things. Not only that, but you usually have to incorporate a lot of new personnel too, so any fanbase that is impatient with a first year coach, deserves to be ignored regardless of how many years the team itself has been in rebuilding mode. With each new coach, the "reset" button is pushed....that's just reality.

Now, if the team isn't seeing success/improvements by the 2nd year of the new regime, criticism is to be expected. If you're still struggling by the 3rd year, and there aren't noticeable improvements, all bets are off.

I back you up 100% Cedder. This franchise has a long history of making desparate, panicky decisions that turn out to be poorly thought out.

Consider: The franchise throws their No. 1 d/c on the trash heap, then give a high No. 1 to PHIL for Kolb, whose good stats might be somewhat the result of playing in a skilled, stable offense.

This seems similar to paying $1M for a promising young racehorse, then placing him in the hands of a local yokel trainer. Disappointed, we consider the horse a bust and send him to the glue factory. Then we go out and buy another $1M young racehorse and put him in the hands of the same miserable trainer. Really dumb.

Originally posted by excelsior:
I back you up 100% Cedder. This franchise has a long history of making desparate, panicky decisions that turn out to be poorly thought out.

Consider: The franchise throws their No. 1 d/c on the trash heap, then give a high No. 1 to PHIL for Kolb, whose good stats might be somewhat the result of playing in a skilled, stable offense.

This seems similar to paying $1M for a promising young racehorse, then placing him in the hands of a local yokel trainer. Disappointed, we consider the horse a bust and send him to the glue factory. Then we go out and buy another $1M young racehorse and put him in the hands of the same miserable trainer. Really dumb.

Seems like a strawman argument here.

1.) Kolb should only be traded for if the price is right; nothing more
2.) No need to put a label on Alex (bust, etc.); for a variety of reasons, we just didn't win with him
3.) If the new coach is the same or no better than the last 4, you'd be correct REGARDLESS of who plays QB

I'm of the opinion that we need to start fresh at both the head coaching position AND at the QB position. No need for blame or finding fault or pointing fingers...it just didn't work for all involved. Ownership needs to insist on bringing in a real GM, who can then hire a real head coach (Gruden/Harbaugh should be at the top of the list) who can then coach up a QB the way he's supposed to be coached up.

Start with a clean slate and rebuild the soul of the franchise from the top down just like Eddie D did.