Grade Troy Smith's Performance

Originally posted by smithgdwg:
Troy Smith - F--

Alex Smith - A++(Plus 100 points of extra credit)

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by backontop:

Originally posted by pd24:
Everyone keeps saying that it was a lucky pass. It was, but when was the last time Alex got lucky? Never. He doesn't take the 50/50 shot down the field to let his reciever make a play on the ball, he would have threw it out of bounds and we would have punted. Even if that pass to Walker had ben picked off, it would have been like a long punt, nothing to lose, but something to gain. Troy had a fumble bounce his way, Alex would have had that returned for 6 the other way. Ill take the guy with the better luck and better arm over the bad luck guy that can't win. Alex plays scared, troy played like he just got a second chance.

On that play Walker also went up after the ball. Something the receivers do not do for Alex. Troy had a beautiful pass to Delanie Walker on a third and long to convert that pretty much sold me on him being the starter for the remainder of the season.

One can only go up for a ball if one is in position to do so and Alex does not place the ball in positions to allow his receivers to do so. They usually can only make the catch if they dive forward or stop on a dime and lunge backward which both are horizontal moves rather than vertical. Alex hardly ever has given his receivers enough range to get underneath a ball and make the jump: it's either too far in front or too far behind.

The level of BS just went up to an incredible level. You are saying that Troy Smith throwing what amounts to a punt is fine, because he placed it properly? LOL. You guys are disgusting... Joecool you are a HUGE troll.

I give Troy Smith a B. I would like to see him start against the rams. I like the fact that when a DE was coming to him, he kept his cool, avoided a sack and threw the ball to Gore and gained some yards.

Originally posted by HessianDud:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by tohara3:

Originally posted by SJniner7:

Originally posted by WestCoast:
probably better than any of A. Smith's performances from 6 years...

just the way that Troy would avoid trouble and even stand tall when the pocket was moving around him proves how much alex blows.

That was the biggest positive about troy, in which he showed poise. He show several qualities that alex severely lacks.
1-held the ball till the last second with pressure imminent. Several of these turned into positive gains.
2-avoided pressure well, without rolling to throw it away.
3-gave the recievers chances to make plays on the ball, something alex rarely, if ever, manages. The pass to crabs and delanie were lobs, where alex typically throws darts, not giving the reciever a chance.

Overall, I would give him a B because he had some bad throws. I really liked his poise in the pocket and ability to dodge pressure. I think we all saw a glimpse of his mobility as well. I am not crowning him just yet, but it was definitely the best QB performance this season.

Agree & nice post. Will be great to see what he can do with two weeks of practice with the recievers!

One benefit that Troy had was that he was not subjected to Jimmy Raye's 3 second stop watch for four months. He was allowed to play the game instinctually instead of being a square peg forced into a round hole.

that's a great point.

Alex's greatest strength is also his great weakness: his intelligence, his analytical skill. And the plan built around him has always been to capitalize on that, and it has pretty much backfired. The coaching staff has done nothing to stop him from playing scared and, it seems, has in fact fed into that.

Troy's best plays yesterday were schoolyard plays, and the ability to make those kinds of plays is important; but a QB in the NFL also has to be able to manage a game and make adjustments, etc, to beat really good teams. Being too much of a game manager or too much of a gunslinger isn't good. On one side you have JTO and on the other you have Alex.

I don't have much faith in this coaching staff, so I think Troy having less exposure with them is a blessing, but I hope over the bye he can get enough practice in to be able to run a more "complete offense."

We will never know what Alex Smith could have been had Nolan allowed him to continue to play the kind of schoolyard ball he played in college. Smith WAS a leader of that Utah offense and he DID play with a lot of instinctiveness, however, from the time he first arrived in SF he was groomed to be a "game manager" in Mike Nolan's style of Baltimore Raven football. Through all of that garbage, Smith lost much of what had made him a successful QB in college. Coaching does work but sometimes it causes a player to regress instead of progress. Alex is a product of the SF coaching debacles where Troy hasn't been here long enough to be infected by it.

I am happy that Troy played as well as he did, albeit against a terrible Denver team that for a couple of penalties still could have beaten the 49ers.

I am very guardedly optimistic for the future. I join you in hoping the bye allows the team to regroup and Troy can learn enough of the system to be effective.

Originally posted by GOREilla:
I give Troy Smith a B. I would like to see him start against the rams. I like the fact that when a DE was coming to him, he kept his cool, avoided a sack and threw the ball to Gore and gained some yards.

i agree with your Troy Smith assessment...BUT I DO NOT RECALL YOU ASKING MY PERMISSION FOR YOUR USER NAME!!!!! j/k welcome to the zone!

Originally posted by dtcomposer:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by backontop:

Originally posted by pd24:
Everyone keeps saying that it was a lucky pass. It was, but when was the last time Alex got lucky? Never. He doesn't take the 50/50 shot down the field to let his reciever make a play on the ball, he would have threw it out of bounds and we would have punted. Even if that pass to Walker had ben picked off, it would have been like a long punt, nothing to lose, but something to gain. Troy had a fumble bounce his way, Alex would have had that returned for 6 the other way. Ill take the guy with the better luck and better arm over the bad luck guy that can't win. Alex plays scared, troy played like he just got a second chance.

On that play Walker also went up after the ball. Something the receivers do not do for Alex. Troy had a beautiful pass to Delanie Walker on a third and long to convert that pretty much sold me on him being the starter for the remainder of the season.

One can only go up for a ball if one is in position to do so and Alex does not place the ball in positions to allow his receivers to do so. They usually can only make the catch if they dive forward or stop on a dime and lunge backward which both are horizontal moves rather than vertical. Alex hardly ever has given his receivers enough range to get underneath a ball and make the jump: it's either too far in front or too far behind.

The level of BS just went up to an incredible level. You are saying that Troy Smith throwing what amounts to a punt is fine, because he placed it properly? LOL. You guys are disgusting... Joecool you are a HUGE troll.

I wonder if that borders personal attacks?

All I said was that Smith normally causes his receivers to, if even close enough, be required to make a horizontal leap at the ball and has rarely placed a ball to allow a receiver to get under it and fight for it.

Yes, Troy's pass was a punt but Champ Bailey was not in position to react and make a play which means it was 1-on-1 and our guy (the bigger guy) won. Our receivers keep getting roasted but they have rarely gotten a chance because our Alex Smith never deviates from the script. When he does find player WIDE open who have toasted the defender similar to what Crabtree did, he still makes an inaccurate throw (see Morgan wide open in game 1 down the sidelines similar to how Crabtree got open).

Calling me a troll won't change the facts. Maybe you need to wake up and realize that backups, 3rd stringers, and QB's who aren't in the league can play as well as Alex.

in the words of Billy Bob "A 10 a 10

A F U C K I N G 10"

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:

Originally posted by Brazilian49er:
As always, the guys from F. Outsiders see the obvious:

Quote:
Process is apparently irrelevant with the Niners if there's a good outcome. The game turned on a 38-yard catch by Delanie Walker that was born out of mad desperation; a scrambling Smith tossed up a prayer into double coverage as he was falling down, and Walker subtly (but clearly from our angle in the press box) pushed off on Brian Dawkins to come down with the ball on the Broncos 1.

Singletary, naturally, compared Smith to a very similar sort of player. "It's kinda like watching Brett Favre. I don't want to put [Smith] in the same light", Singletary said. "Sometimes he makes a decision and throws the ball ... I will say 'Be careful' but that's about it."

To his credit, Smith laughed off the Favre comparisons, but his logic in why he made the throw was a little weak. "What we work on is throwing to our guy and away from their guys. If there's a tight hole I can put the ball in, I trust that my guy is going to come down with the ball." Saying there's a tight window on a quick slant is one thing; lofting up a prayer into coverage is no hole.

LINK

To see people defending that decision baffles me.

I don't think you can defend the throw made by Troy to Delanie so much as you can appreciate him trying to make a play downfield (and it was made). You obviously can't build an offense around that type of approach, but when you're trailing in the 4th quarter and staring 1-7 in the face, you sometimes have to take a chance and force the issue.

The reason why? Because sometimes (as it happened on Sunday) your playmakers will make a play. Like I said, you can't make a habit of chucking the ball up for grabs...but if you don't risk on occassion, you don't get rewarded.

I would love to know what was going through Singletary's mind when he saw Troy toss that one up for grabs.

After all his preaching about not taking chances, wanting each possession to end with a kick, etc., I'll bet he was about to go ballistic, assuming the worst.

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:

Originally posted by Brazilian49er:
As always, the guys from F. Outsiders see the obvious:

Quote:
Process is apparently irrelevant with the Niners if there's a good outcome. The game turned on a 38-yard catch by Delanie Walker that was born out of mad desperation; a scrambling Smith tossed up a prayer into double coverage as he was falling down, and Walker subtly (but clearly from our angle in the press box) pushed off on Brian Dawkins to come down with the ball on the Broncos 1.

Singletary, naturally, compared Smith to a very similar sort of player. "It's kinda like watching Brett Favre. I don't want to put [Smith] in the same light", Singletary said. "Sometimes he makes a decision and throws the ball ... I will say 'Be careful' but that's about it."

To his credit, Smith laughed off the Favre comparisons, but his logic in why he made the throw was a little weak. "What we work on is throwing to our guy and away from their guys. If there's a tight hole I can put the ball in, I trust that my guy is going to come down with the ball." Saying there's a tight window on a quick slant is one thing; lofting up a prayer into coverage is no hole.

LINK

To see people defending that decision baffles me.

I don't think you can defend the throw made by Troy to Delanie so much as you can appreciate him trying to make a play downfield (and it was made). You obviously can't build an offense around that type of approach, but when you're trailing in the 4th quarter and staring 1-7 in the face, you sometimes have to take a chance and force the issue.

The reason why? Because sometimes (as it happened on Sunday) your playmakers will make a play. Like I said, you can't make a habit of chucking the ball up for grabs...but if you don't risk on occassion, you don't get rewarded.

I would love to know what was going through Singletary's mind when he saw Troy toss that one up for grabs.

After all his preaching about not taking chances, wanting each possession to end with a kick, etc., I'll bet he was about to go ballistic, assuming the worst.

Excellent point. Like I said, you can't make a habit of taking risks (especially those that are low-risk), but in certain situations, you really have to trust your playmakers.

Originally posted by Gavintech:

Originally posted by Blackoutz:
2. his legs made up for poor OL

Where are people coming up with this? The OL wasn't lights out but those play actions they were running over and over and over again were working (because Denver was fully focused on Gore) and Smith had more time to throw yesterday than any 49ers QB we've seen in a long time.

Denver's front 7 is one of the weaker units in the league. (They miss Elvis Dumerville on the pass rush.) Mike Nolan had them playing quite well last year but McDaniel got upset with Nolan for some unknown reasons and Nolan went to Miami where he has improved the Miami defense.

We need to temper our expectations based on this single game. It would be nice to be able to look back and see this be a turning point to a strong second half but Denver is probably the weakest team the 49ers will play from here on in. I am glad for the win and the promise Troy showed.

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:

Originally posted by Brazilian49er:
As always, the guys from F. Outsiders see the obvious:

Quote:
Process is apparently irrelevant with the Niners if there's a good outcome. The game turned on a 38-yard catch by Delanie Walker that was born out of mad desperation; a scrambling Smith tossed up a prayer into double coverage as he was falling down, and Walker subtly (but clearly from our angle in the press box) pushed off on Brian Dawkins to come down with the ball on the Broncos 1.

Singletary, naturally, compared Smith to a very similar sort of player. "It's kinda like watching Brett Favre. I don't want to put [Smith] in the same light", Singletary said. "Sometimes he makes a decision and throws the ball ... I will say 'Be careful' but that's about it."

To his credit, Smith laughed off the Favre comparisons, but his logic in why he made the throw was a little weak. "What we work on is throwing to our guy and away from their guys. If there's a tight hole I can put the ball in, I trust that my guy is going to come down with the ball." Saying there's a tight window on a quick slant is one thing; lofting up a prayer into coverage is no hole.

LINK

To see people defending that decision baffles me.

I don't think you can defend the throw made by Troy to Delanie so much as you can appreciate him trying to make a play downfield (and it was made). You obviously can't build an offense around that type of approach, but when you're trailing in the 4th quarter and staring 1-7 in the face, you sometimes have to take a chance and force the issue.

The reason why? Because sometimes (as it happened on Sunday) your playmakers will make a play. Like I said, you can't make a habit of chucking the ball up for grabs...but if you don't risk on occassion, you don't get rewarded.

I would love to know what was going through Singletary's mind when he saw Troy toss that one up for grabs.

After all his preaching about not taking chances, wanting each possession to end with a kick, etc., I'll bet he was about to go ballistic, assuming the worst.

Excellent point. Like I said, you can't make a habit of taking risks (especially those that are low-risk), but in certain situations, you really have to trust your playmakers.

And that is the difference between an offensive-minded coach, and a defensive-minded coach. The offensive-minded guy understands you need to put your tall, strong receivers on the field and let them out jump the DBs. That is what happened with the Walker pass, albeit not by design. Still, that is a pass that Alex has been coached his entire time here not to attempt to throw. If Alex had been the QB, I am confident he would have dumped it out of bounds.

I can't help but contrast the Walker pass with the recent Alex pass to Tiny Ted where Ginn just didn't have the muscle or the timing to go up and get it.

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:

Originally posted by Brazilian49er:
As always, the guys from F. Outsiders see the obvious:

Quote:
Process is apparently irrelevant with the Niners if there's a good outcome. The game turned on a 38-yard catch by Delanie Walker that was born out of mad desperation; a scrambling Smith tossed up a prayer into double coverage as he was falling down, and Walker subtly (but clearly from our angle in the press box) pushed off on Brian Dawkins to come down with the ball on the Broncos 1.

Singletary, naturally, compared Smith to a very similar sort of player. "It's kinda like watching Brett Favre. I don't want to put [Smith] in the same light", Singletary said. "Sometimes he makes a decision and throws the ball ... I will say 'Be careful' but that's about it."

To his credit, Smith laughed off the Favre comparisons, but his logic in why he made the throw was a little weak. "What we work on is throwing to our guy and away from their guys. If there's a tight hole I can put the ball in, I trust that my guy is going to come down with the ball." Saying there's a tight window on a quick slant is one thing; lofting up a prayer into coverage is no hole.

LINK

To see people defending that decision baffles me.

I don't think you can defend the throw made by Troy to Delanie so much as you can appreciate him trying to make a play downfield (and it was made). You obviously can't build an offense around that type of approach, but when you're trailing in the 4th quarter and staring 1-7 in the face, you sometimes have to take a chance and force the issue.

The reason why? Because sometimes (as it happened on Sunday) your playmakers will make a play. Like I said, you can't make a habit of chucking the ball up for grabs...but if you don't risk on occassion, you don't get rewarded.

I would love to know what was going through Singletary's mind when he saw Troy toss that one up for grabs.

After all his preaching about not taking chances, wanting each possession to end with a kick, etc., I'll bet he was about to go ballistic, assuming the worst.

Excellent point. Like I said, you can't make a habit of taking risks (especially those that are low-risk), but in certain situations, you really have to trust your playmakers.

And that is the difference between an offensive-minded coach, and a defensive-minded coach. The offensive-minded guy understands you need to put your tall, strong receivers on the field and let them out jump the DBs. That is what happened with the Walker pass, albeit not by design. Still, that is a pass that Alex has been coached his entire time here not to attempt to throw. If Alex had been the QB, I am confident he would have dumped it out of bounds.

I can't help but contrast the Walker pass with the recent Alex pass to Tiny Ted where Ginn just didn't have the muscle or the timing to go up and get it.

Totally different type of situation. Ginn was running full speed on a timed route where Alex threw it about 2 yards behind him whereas Walker was on a broken route, facing the QB and prepared to go up for it.

And as for Alex being coached not to attempt that type of throw; I'm sure every coach in the league tells their QB not to make that type of throw but guess what, the better QB's don't always listen to their coach to the last syllable. This is not a coaching issue you mentioned it is a personality/ability issue. As for tall strong receivers...well...Brandon Lloyd isn't very tall or strong but he still grabbed a back shoulder covered tight throw.

Alex has rarely thrown balls that allow his receivers a chance to settle and jump for hit. Stop blaming the receivers or the head coach on badly placed balls thrown by the QB.

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:

Originally posted by Brazilian49er:
As always, the guys from F. Outsiders see the obvious:

Quote:
Process is apparently irrelevant with the Niners if there's a good outcome. The game turned on a 38-yard catch by Delanie Walker that was born out of mad desperation; a scrambling Smith tossed up a prayer into double coverage as he was falling down, and Walker subtly (but clearly from our angle in the press box) pushed off on Brian Dawkins to come down with the ball on the Broncos 1.

Singletary, naturally, compared Smith to a very similar sort of player. "It's kinda like watching Brett Favre. I don't want to put [Smith] in the same light", Singletary said. "Sometimes he makes a decision and throws the ball ... I will say 'Be careful' but that's about it."

To his credit, Smith laughed off the Favre comparisons, but his logic in why he made the throw was a little weak. "What we work on is throwing to our guy and away from their guys. If there's a tight hole I can put the ball in, I trust that my guy is going to come down with the ball." Saying there's a tight window on a quick slant is one thing; lofting up a prayer into coverage is no hole.

LINK

To see people defending that decision baffles me.

I don't think you can defend the throw made by Troy to Delanie so much as you can appreciate him trying to make a play downfield (and it was made). You obviously can't build an offense around that type of approach, but when you're trailing in the 4th quarter and staring 1-7 in the face, you sometimes have to take a chance and force the issue.

The reason why? Because sometimes (as it happened on Sunday) your playmakers will make a play. Like I said, you can't make a habit of chucking the ball up for grabs...but if you don't risk on occassion, you don't get rewarded.

I would love to know what was going through Singletary's mind when he saw Troy toss that one up for grabs.

After all his preaching about not taking chances, wanting each possession to end with a kick, etc., I'll bet he was about to go ballistic, assuming the worst.

Excellent point. Like I said, you can't make a habit of taking risks (especially those that are low-risk), but in certain situations, you really have to trust your playmakers.

And that is the difference between an offensive-minded coach, and a defensive-minded coach. The offensive-minded guy understands you need to put your tall, strong receivers on the field and let them out jump the DBs. That is what happened with the Walker pass, albeit not by design. Still, that is a pass that Alex has been coached his entire time here not to attempt to throw. If Alex had been the QB, I am confident he would have dumped it out of bounds.

I can't help but contrast the Walker pass with the recent Alex pass to Tiny Ted where Ginn just didn't have the muscle or the timing to go up and get it.

Totally different type of situation. Ginn was running full speed on a timed route where Alex threw it about 2 yards behind him whereas Walker was on a broken route, facing the QB and prepared to go up for it.

And as for Alex being coached not to attempt that type of throw; I'm sure every coach in the league tells their QB not to make that type of throw but guess what, the better QB's don't always listen to their coach to the last syllable. This is not a coaching issue you mentioned it is a personality/ability issue. As for tall strong receivers...well...Brandon Lloyd isn't very tall or strong but he still grabbed a back shoulder covered tight throw.

Alex has rarely thrown balls that allow his receivers a chance to settle and jump for hit. Stop blaming the receivers or the head coach on badly placed balls thrown by the QB.

Now you REALLY have your filter screwed down too tight.

The better receivers in the league ALL will go up to contend for that Ginn ball. ALL OF THEM. He had plenty of time. The fact is, he is a very poor pass receiver in the first place. That is why Miami released him. Unfortunately, the 49er staff doesn't seem to like Jason Hill, the only guy who combines height and speed on the team. Hence, Ginn was the target instead of someone who can actually make a play on the ball.

In your Smith hate, you ignore the fact that the 49ers should use guys like Walker and Hill more in situations where they want to throw the ball down the field. IT IS ABOUT COACHING. IT IS A LOT ABOUT COACHING. Coaches change the playing personalities of players all the time. A good coach will improve it and a bad one will turn it backwards. My hope is that Troy Smith will IGNORE Singletary and continue to play with the same personality he did on Sunday.

You are a more knowledgeable football guy than you are exhibiting by your constant fixation on Alex Smith. To read the majority of your posts one would think that getting rid of Alex Smith will turn this franchise into a SB winner. There is far more wrong with this team than just the lack of a quality QB. Try looking at some of these other issues and give Alex a rest for a few days.

Not sticking my toe far into this pool, but great post Dj43.

Troyexcuses = excuses for why we won

1. He played the Broncos, the Raiders beat them.

The Raiders also crushed the Seahawks, who beat us with Alex Smith at the helm

2. Gore won the game.

Has Gore not been on the team all year?