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Resigning Lawson.

Originally posted by Ceadderman:
Originally posted by susweel:
Originally posted by rawdel:
Originally posted by DaFaro49ers:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by susweel:
Originally posted by DaFaro49ers:
Originally posted by susweel:
Overrated

Find me a LB(excluding P-Willie) who can run stride for Stride with a Great TE and intercept the pass in a diving fashion.....than Ill agree


One int in 3 years. Big whoop

This. However, Lawson is one of our key players against the run.

I was looking at football outsiders stats and our defense is ranked near the top in terms of stopping runs to his side. We are terrible in stopping runs to the other side...Parys...no speed...

We need to lose Parys, use that money on our strong strong side guy, Manny, and work on a "real" weakside pass rush.

Yes, thank you! Manny Lawson's job isnt to get INT's ..But he is good enough to use him that way(That's why he is a keeper). His real strenght is run stuffing and if you watch Niner games he's always right there to wrap up or stop a player for a loss. I believe he had 2-3 tackles for loss on McCoy in the eagles game, and McCoy is a speedster.

Yeah but he bit hard on that double reverse yesterday.

Dude does not fit the 3-4 system, in a 3-4 the OLB must be a good pass rusher and thats something Lawson is a FAIL at.

You dont sign a OLB on the fact that he's good "run stopper".


Lawson needs to go

You officially do NOT have a clue to what you're talking about.

I'm now convinced that you out your ass parroting what other people say.

But hey let's look at the fine points here.

Manny SEALS his edge. This is first and foremost his RESPONSIBILITY as the Strong Side Backer. He allows Icebox to take less blockers and vice versa Icebox allows him to get into the backfield. They work great together. But his primary focus is to keep Runs from gaining traction. This he does extremely well and THIS is what you PAY for.

Sacks are a secondary Focus, when you KNOW that the Back is not coming your direction then your focus shifts to Pass Defense. Manny has quick awareness to allow him to identify the Ball Carrier so he goes to the ball no matter where it is. I often see Manny on the Weak Side because he's got cover speed to burn.

YOU PAY FOR THIS.

Turnovers is something Manny is ALWAYS looking to create. And he does it.

YOU PAY FOR THAT TOO.

If you cannot look past Sack stats then just stop talking cause I'm getting fed up with your myopic BS susweel.

~Ceadder



Your an Alex Smith fan so Im not even gonna bother arguing football with you.
The question is how much do we value him? Dansby got a 5 year 43 million dollar contract last year and I wouldn't be too surprised if Manny got a 6 year deal close to that.

It's clear that he's an excellent linebacker that can play in the 4-3 or 3-4. I like Manny but I'm not too sure about paying him that kind of money. For the longest time Pittsburgh let excellent linebackers walk and just plugged in new guys. This might be that type of scenario.

[ Edited by tjd808185 on Oct 18, 2010 at 16:43:00 ]
Originally posted by susweel:
Originally posted by Ceadderman:
Originally posted by susweel:
Originally posted by rawdel:
Originally posted by DaFaro49ers:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by susweel:
Originally posted by DaFaro49ers:
Originally posted by susweel:
Overrated

Find me a LB(excluding P-Willie) who can run stride for Stride with a Great TE and intercept the pass in a diving fashion.....than Ill agree


One int in 3 years. Big whoop

This. However, Lawson is one of our key players against the run.

I was looking at football outsiders stats and our defense is ranked near the top in terms of stopping runs to his side. We are terrible in stopping runs to the other side...Parys...no speed...

We need to lose Parys, use that money on our strong strong side guy, Manny, and work on a "real" weakside pass rush.

Yes, thank you! Manny Lawson's job isnt to get INT's ..But he is good enough to use him that way(That's why he is a keeper). His real strenght is run stuffing and if you watch Niner games he's always right there to wrap up or stop a player for a loss. I believe he had 2-3 tackles for loss on McCoy in the eagles game, and McCoy is a speedster.

Yeah but he bit hard on that double reverse yesterday.

Dude does not fit the 3-4 system, in a 3-4 the OLB must be a good pass rusher and thats something Lawson is a FAIL at.

You dont sign a OLB on the fact that he's good "run stopper".


Lawson needs to go

You officially do NOT have a clue to what you're talking about.

I'm now convinced that you out your ass parroting what other people say.

But hey let's look at the fine points here.

Manny SEALS his edge. This is first and foremost his RESPONSIBILITY as the Strong Side Backer. He allows Icebox to take less blockers and vice versa Icebox allows him to get into the backfield. They work great together. But his primary focus is to keep Runs from gaining traction. This he does extremely well and THIS is what you PAY for.

Sacks are a secondary Focus, when you KNOW that the Back is not coming your direction then your focus shifts to Pass Defense. Manny has quick awareness to allow him to identify the Ball Carrier so he goes to the ball no matter where it is. I often see Manny on the Weak Side because he's got cover speed to burn.

YOU PAY FOR THIS.

Turnovers is something Manny is ALWAYS looking to create. And he does it.

YOU PAY FOR THAT TOO.

If you cannot look past Sack stats then just stop talking cause I'm getting fed up with your myopic BS susweel.

~Ceadder



Your an Alex Smith fan so Im not even gonna bother arguing football with you.

Yeah, THAT'S what's stopping you.

~Ceadder

[ Edited by Ceadderman on Oct 18, 2010 at 16:50:45 ]
Originally posted by Wodwo:


There would be little difference in playing 4-3 vs. 3-4 with Lawson at OLB. You're basically just saying you want the ROLB to change from two point to three point stance. Then you basically end up with an under shifted 4-3.

Manny would be our LOLB or SLB. This means he would be covering TEs and playing run... both things Manny excels on. It also means that when he does blitz, chances are good that he won't be taking on the RT often, as that now becomes the LE's job. So Manny can scream around the edge with speed and either battle FBs/RBs or just fly free.

Think about it...

4-3 =

- protect Willis with 4 DL, so he can be more free to roam.
- better uses Bowman's skills
- better uses Lawson's skills
- better suits our DL

( though we will have to place priority on making sure we have the right options for RE )
  • GEEK
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 17,125
Brooks has experience in the 4-3 LB position.

OLB: Brooks/FA or rookie
ILB: Willis/McKillop
OLB: Bowman/Spikes
Originally posted by Ceadderman:
Originally posted by susweel:
Originally posted by Ceadderman:
Originally posted by susweel:
Originally posted by rawdel:
Originally posted by DaFaro49ers:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by susweel:
Originally posted by DaFaro49ers:
Originally posted by susweel:
Overrated

Find me a LB(excluding P-Willie) who can run stride for Stride with a Great TE and intercept the pass in a diving fashion.....than Ill agree


One int in 3 years. Big whoop

This. However, Lawson is one of our key players against the run.

I was looking at football outsiders stats and our defense is ranked near the top in terms of stopping runs to his side. We are terrible in stopping runs to the other side...Parys...no speed...

We need to lose Parys, use that money on our strong strong side guy, Manny, and work on a "real" weakside pass rush.

Yes, thank you! Manny Lawson's job isnt to get INT's ..But he is good enough to use him that way(That's why he is a keeper). His real strenght is run stuffing and if you watch Niner games he's always right there to wrap up or stop a player for a loss. I believe he had 2-3 tackles for loss on McCoy in the eagles game, and McCoy is a speedster.

Yeah but he bit hard on that double reverse yesterday.

Dude does not fit the 3-4 system, in a 3-4 the OLB must be a good pass rusher and thats something Lawson is a FAIL at.

You dont sign a OLB on the fact that he's good "run stopper".


Lawson needs to go

You officially do NOT have a clue to what you're talking about.

I'm now convinced that you out your ass parroting what other people say.

But hey let's look at the fine points here.

Manny SEALS his edge. This is first and foremost his RESPONSIBILITY as the Strong Side Backer. He allows Icebox to take less blockers and vice versa Icebox allows him to get into the backfield. They work great together. But his primary focus is to keep Runs from gaining traction. This he does extremely well and THIS is what you PAY for.

Sacks are a secondary Focus, when you KNOW that the Back is not coming your direction then your focus shifts to Pass Defense. Manny has quick awareness to allow him to identify the Ball Carrier so he goes to the ball no matter where it is. I often see Manny on the Weak Side because he's got cover speed to burn.

YOU PAY FOR THIS.

Turnovers is something Manny is ALWAYS looking to create. And he does it.

YOU PAY FOR THAT TOO.

If you cannot look past Sack stats then just stop talking cause I'm getting fed up with your myopic BS susweel.

~Ceadder



Your an Alex Smith fan so Im not even gonna bother arguing football with you.

Yeah, THAT'S what's stopping you.

~Ceadder


Hey you have your opinion and I have my opinion on Lawson. But the fact is that the niners clearly dont value Lawson as much you and some of the other fanboys on this site do. Its obvious because they have and will not offer him a contract extension.

The fact is Lawson has been a disappointment since being drafted in the first round.

Some team will over pay for him and regret it the year after.


Also your posting style is super annoying, you act like your smartest guy on here. I dont know why you feel like its okay attack the poster who doesn't agree with you. Here's a little tip:

Argue the post, dont attack the poster.
we dont need to waste our money on morgan
Originally posted by CrAnKD4TCRabTree:
we dont need to waste our money on morgan

Morgan is middle of the pack at best. Unless we really can't pick up anyone else, I do not think Morgan really brings anything special to the team, he is too hot and cold.

I would resign lawson first as well. He is not the best of his position, but gets great tackles in space, and seems to cover the flats pretty well. Although, in case you guys didn't notice, he missed terribly on the reverse that gained about 40 yards...
Originally posted by SJniner7:
Originally posted by CrAnKD4TCRabTree:
we dont need to waste our money on morgan

Morgan is middle of the pack at best. Unless we really can't pick up anyone else, I do not think Morgan really brings anything special to the team, he is too hot and cold.

I would resign lawson first as well. He is not the best of his position, but gets great tackles in space, and seems to cover the flats pretty well. Although, in case you guys didn't notice, he missed terribly on the reverse that gained about 40 yards...

As did the entire Strong Side. They clearly over pursued the play and the Raiders ran a solid play. Notice that did not happen again for the rest of the game.
Originally posted by susweel:
Originally posted by Ceadderman:
Originally posted by susweel:
Originally posted by Ceadderman:
Originally posted by susweel:
Originally posted by rawdel:
Originally posted by DaFaro49ers:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by susweel:
Originally posted by DaFaro49ers:
Originally posted by susweel:
Overrated

Find me a LB(excluding P-Willie) who can run stride for Stride with a Great TE and intercept the pass in a diving fashion.....than Ill agree


One int in 3 years. Big whoop

This. However, Lawson is one of our key players against the run.

I was looking at football outsiders stats and our defense is ranked near the top in terms of stopping runs to his side. We are terrible in stopping runs to the other side...Parys...no speed...

We need to lose Parys, use that money on our strong strong side guy, Manny, and work on a "real" weakside pass rush.

Yes, thank you! Manny Lawson's job isnt to get INT's ..But he is good enough to use him that way(That's why he is a keeper). His real strenght is run stuffing and if you watch Niner games he's always right there to wrap up or stop a player for a loss. I believe he had 2-3 tackles for loss on McCoy in the eagles game, and McCoy is a speedster.

Yeah but he bit hard on that double reverse yesterday.

Dude does not fit the 3-4 system, in a 3-4 the OLB must be a good pass rusher and thats something Lawson is a FAIL at.

You dont sign a OLB on the fact that he's good "run stopper".


Lawson needs to go

You officially do NOT have a clue to what you're talking about.

I'm now convinced that you out your ass parroting what other people say.

But hey let's look at the fine points here.

Manny SEALS his edge. This is first and foremost his RESPONSIBILITY as the Strong Side Backer. He allows Icebox to take less blockers and vice versa Icebox allows him to get into the backfield. They work great together. But his primary focus is to keep Runs from gaining traction. This he does extremely well and THIS is what you PAY for.

Sacks are a secondary Focus, when you KNOW that the Back is not coming your direction then your focus shifts to Pass Defense. Manny has quick awareness to allow him to identify the Ball Carrier so he goes to the ball no matter where it is. I often see Manny on the Weak Side because he's got cover speed to burn.

YOU PAY FOR THIS.

Turnovers is something Manny is ALWAYS looking to create. And he does it.

YOU PAY FOR THAT TOO.

If you cannot look past Sack stats then just stop talking cause I'm getting fed up with your myopic BS susweel.

~Ceadder



Your an Alex Smith fan so Im not even gonna bother arguing football with you.

Yeah, THAT'S what's stopping you.

~Ceadder


Hey you have your opinion and I have my opinion on Lawson. But the fact is that the niners clearly dont value Lawson as much you and some of the other fanboys on this site do. Its obvious because they have and will not offer him a contract extension.

The fact is Lawson has been a disappointment since being drafted in the first round.

Some team will over pay for him and regret it the year after.


Also your posting style is super annoying, you act like your smartest guy on here. I dont know why you feel like its okay attack the poster who doesn't agree with you. Here's a little tip:

Argue the post, dont attack the poster.

The fact is? Really? Who's ear do you have in the organization that tells you this?

Let's be honest here sus, YOU don't value him and so you're going to read your stance into anything the organization does.

I know they haven't signed him yet and not even in talks with his agent(that we're aware of) but don't you think they want to know where everybody is at with their play on the field before they make this kind of a commitment? This is what I think they are doing. It's not my fanboi-ness that tells me this but sheer pragmatism.

If Haralson does not step up his game being on the weakside they may very well let him go and that gives them the money to put toward Manny.

Much like you cannot undervalue Smith due to injury, you shouldn't be undervaluing Manny for the very same reason. It's clear to me that you do this to any player that has lost a significant amount of time to injury.

Manny blew out his knee for cryn out loud. And look at the kind of Plays he makes. I like Haralson but he and Manny aren't even in the same zipcode and Parys is playing on the Weakside. He should be doing more than what Manny does and THAT is fact.

~Ceadder

[ Edited by Ceadderman on Oct 18, 2010 at 17:32:36 ]
  • Wodwo
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 8,104
Originally posted by oldman9er:


( though we will have to place priority on making sure we have the right options for RE )

My main point was that it won't make much difference because we have no pass rusher. We could list pros and cons all day, move around personnel, but in the end it would come out even. We'd be good against the run, but have a poor pass rush.

We need someone opposite Lawson to pressure the QB. If we gain access to an elite rusher, scheme should depend on their skill set. If they can't play as well in space, we should move to a 4-3.

Personally, I'd like to see us stick with the 3-4 if we can because of it's versatility and because we've been running it long enough that the players have a good knowledge of the scheme.

However, if starting from scratch, I'd always scheme to the players strengths. f**k coaches who come into new teams and start shoving square pegs in round holes. Coaches who work with what they have are the ones that create lasting innovations. That's why we have the modern 4-3 structure, let alone the 3-4.

I'll stop there before I start ranting about lack of creativity in modern football.
Originally posted by DaFaro49ers:
Originally posted by susweel:
Overrated

Find me a LB(excluding P-Willie) who can run stride for Stride with a Great TE and intercept the pass in a diving fashion.....than Ill agree

Hall of Fame TE
Originally posted by Wodwo:
Originally posted by oldman9er:


( though we will have to place priority on making sure we have the right options for RE )

My main point was that it won't make much difference because we have no pass rusher.

I don't think you can know that to state it so absolutely. I easily like the rush I see from Haralson and Brooks in a 3 point stance vs 2 point stance. Some rushers just respond better to having their hand in the dirt. What we do know is that we don't have the rush LBs or NT to justify being in a 3-4 scheme. I blame most of the lacking pass rush on CB cushions, but still, it's clear we don't have stud rush LBs.

We're not dumping the 3-4 this season anyway, so we're just yapping anyway.
People on here are ridiculous when they hate on Lawson. He gets a bad rap because he isn't exactly doing what he was expected to do when we drafted him in 06. We all wanted him to develop into a great pass rusher, which hasn't happened. However, he is easily our best coverage linebacker, a very good tackler, and very good in run support. His pass rush is decent. He's better than Haralson as a pass rusher. Haralson gets way more opportunities to rush the passer and a lot of his sacks are coverage sacks. Manny Lawson is 6'5 with some long ass arms and he makes it very difficult for quarterbacks to pass over him and thus eliminates a passing lane. He should be on the field all the time along with Patrick Willis. He's a freak with amazing speed and great leaping ability. Trust me if we don't resign him, it will be a huge mistake and you all will see the negative impact that it has on our defense. Also he is a great locker room guy and is very selfless. HUGE MISTAKE if we do not resign him. Those of you who don't see how important he is to our team are blind and probably don't even really pay attention to him on the field. You guys probably just look at his statistics and come to the conclusion that he must not be very good due to the lack of stats.
Originally posted by Hopper:
Ray McDonald should be on that list.

Not to get off topic, but I love McDonald. He reminds me a lot of Lawson in that both are very solid players in the wrong defense. I think both players could be special in the right defense. I would love to see us in a 4-3 and sign both these guys.

McDonlad, RJF, Soap, Smith
Lawson, Willis , Bowman
(Rotate Brooks)

That would be beastly.

[ Edited by Oakland-Niner on Oct 18, 2010 at 18:28:33 ]