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Tackle Play - Offensive Line

Originally posted by Sjceruti:
Originally posted by flow:
LT: Sims
LG: Iupati
C: Baas
RG: Anthony Davis
RT: Staley


I have to admit, that would be pretty sick. I think Davis is made to play tackle though. That would be too creative for our coaching staff though.

[ Edited by binary2nd on Oct 18, 2010 at 08:02:09 ]
Originally posted by binary2nd:
Originally posted by Sjceruti:
Originally posted by flow:
LT: Sims
LG: Iupati
C: Baas
RG: Anthony Davis
RT: Staley


I have to admit, that would be pretty sick.

I was actually leaning the other way. We drafted Davis as a tackle.
Why give up so early?
Also Staley isnt as bad as he played yesterday, granted it was a bad game.
Bass at center I do like tho.
Chilo needs to be benched in favor of Snyder or Heitmann.
Originally posted by Sjceruti:
Originally posted by binary2nd:
Originally posted by Sjceruti:
Originally posted by flow:
LT: Sims
LG: Iupati
C: Baas
RG: Anthony Davis
RT: Staley


I have to admit, that would be pretty sick.

I was actually leaning the other way. We drafted Davis as a tackle.
Why give up so early?
Also Staley isnt as bad as he played yesterday, granted it was a bad game.
Bass at center I do like tho.
Chilo needs to be benched in favor of Snyder or Heitmann.


I don't think it would be giving up on him, I just think it would be bringing him along slowly. That idea is almost like something a really smart team would've done lol. He's only 20, starting him at guard would be far less daunting, and he's already a solid run blocker. My only concern would be his height, he might be too tall for OG. Sims was good at LT last year too, and he has one year left. Then next year, move Staley to LT and Davis should be fully ready for RT.

[ Edited by binary2nd on Oct 18, 2010 at 08:06:14 ]
Originally posted by binary2nd:
Originally posted by Sjceruti:
Originally posted by binary2nd:
Originally posted by Sjceruti:
Originally posted by flow:
LT: Sims
LG: Iupati
C: Baas
RG: Anthony Davis
RT: Staley


I have to admit, that would be pretty sick.

I was actually leaning the other way. We drafted Davis as a tackle.
Why give up so early?
Also Staley isnt as bad as he played yesterday, granted it was a bad game.
Bass at center I do like tho.
Chilo needs to be benched in favor of Snyder or Heitmann.


I don't think it would be giving up on him, I just think it would be bringing him along slowly. That idea is almost like something a really smart team would've done lol. He's only 20, starting him at guard would be far less daunting, and he's already a solid run blocker. My only concern would be his height, he might be too tall for OG. Sims was good at LT last year too, and he has one year left. Then next year, move Staley to LT and Davis should be fully ready for RT.

Maybe but has he ever played inside at Guard and would the transition A) stunt growth and B) be as easy as just sliding him inside and telling him to block?

A agree with you that it's difficult for his as a guy who cant even legally drink to go against an NFL pass rush.
Originally posted by Sjceruti:
Originally posted by binary2nd:
Originally posted by Sjceruti:
Originally posted by binary2nd:
Originally posted by Sjceruti:
Originally posted by flow:
LT: Sims
LG: Iupati
C: Baas
RG: Anthony Davis
RT: Staley


I have to admit, that would be pretty sick.

I was actually leaning the other way. We drafted Davis as a tackle.
Why give up so early?
Also Staley isnt as bad as he played yesterday, granted it was a bad game.
Bass at center I do like tho.
Chilo needs to be benched in favor of Snyder or Heitmann.


I don't think it would be giving up on him, I just think it would be bringing him along slowly. That idea is almost like something a really smart team would've done lol. He's only 20, starting him at guard would be far less daunting, and he's already a solid run blocker. My only concern would be his height, he might be too tall for OG. Sims was good at LT last year too, and he has one year left. Then next year, move Staley to LT and Davis should be fully ready for RT.

Maybe but has he ever played inside at Guard and would the transition A) stunt growth and B) be as easy as just sliding him inside and telling him to block?

A agree with you that it's difficult for his as a guy who cant even legally drink to go against an NFL pass rush.

Well I know it has worked well for guys like Leonard Davis and Gallery. It seems like it could be smart to get Davis acclimated. I mean, at least try Snyder there, the entire line played better with him in. I'm done thinking of improvements for this team though, nothing will happen. Sing is too stubborn/dumb and is like Nolan x2.

[ Edited by binary2nd on Oct 18, 2010 at 08:12:35 ]
Davis is not moving to Guard, dumb idea.

[ Edited by Hopper on Oct 18, 2010 at 08:11:53 ]
Originally posted by Hopper:
Davis is not moving to Guard, dumb idea.

Well, they have to do something, he is getting tooled.
Originally posted by Hopper:
Originally posted by backontop:
Originally posted by Kilgore_Trout:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by socal9er42:
Originally posted by leakyfausett:
I think as a rookie Davis has struggled and also done well. With Chilo nest door he is left on an island because Chilo can't do his own job so no help for Davis. I am most disappointed in Staley. He was a decent RT. and should have never been moved. Also when your top 0-lineman the last 3 tears is back healthy and he doesn't sniff the field with this o-line says a lot about Sings stubborness or ignorance.

Sims back as LT, move Staley to RT.

If Heitman is healthy, C.

Whoever is best at RG (I don't think anybody has stood out), keep Iupati at LG.

Could work.

I think Davis needs time to develop/fully mature (not even 21 yet, is he?). I don't think I ever understood the Chilo draft pick, but I was hopeful. He sure has looked bad and/or inconsistant this year. I'm certainly ready for some changes on the O line. I knew that, as a minimum, the first half of this year was going to be painful for the line as it developed with 2 rookies starting, but I don't think I ever envisioned it this bad.

The bit above about Staley having a shoulder injury would help to explain things, but if that is the case, why haven't the Coaches pulled him so that a healthy player is in what is usually considered the most important spot? Has Sims slipped that bad?????

Tough call b/c if you move Staley to RT, where else are we going to run? Gore is way too slow laterally to string along and then dart up the line. He only has two runs now...up the gut and behind Davis off RT. If we made changes along the line, we'd need to change Gore for Dixon too.

We do need to mix in Dixon more. Gore is the man, but he needs to let the team do what it has to do to win. I know he wants to win as bad as the fans do. He has been putting up with this same stuff since 2005!

I wouldn't move Staley to RT at all. I would return the OLine to what it was last year. It played a lot better last year than it has this year.

Staley/Sims-Iupati-Heitman-Baas-Snyder

How does Synder upgrade RT? He gave up 9 sacks last year at RT.

Some people obviously have forgotten about upside. Davis is only 21 and he has plenty of upside. Synder has reached his ceiling as a horrific right tackle.

Does anyone else think our poor oline play is due directly to our predictable formations and play calling? The advantage the oline should have is the element of suprise, but with the niners that doesn't exist. The d knows when its pass or run. In other words, they know if the o line will be passive or aggressive.
Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
Originally posted by Hopper:
Originally posted by backontop:
Originally posted by Kilgore_Trout:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by socal9er42:
Originally posted by leakyfausett:
I think as a rookie Davis has struggled and also done well. With Chilo nest door he is left on an island because Chilo can't do his own job so no help for Davis. I am most disappointed in Staley. He was a decent RT. and should have never been moved. Also when your top 0-lineman the last 3 tears is back healthy and he doesn't sniff the field with this o-line says a lot about Sings stubborness or ignorance.

Sims back as LT, move Staley to RT.

If Heitman is healthy, C.

Whoever is best at RG (I don't think anybody has stood out), keep Iupati at LG.

Could work.

I think Davis needs time to develop/fully mature (not even 21 yet, is he?). I don't think I ever understood the Chilo draft pick, but I was hopeful. He sure has looked bad and/or inconsistant this year. I'm certainly ready for some changes on the O line. I knew that, as a minimum, the first half of this year was going to be painful for the line as it developed with 2 rookies starting, but I don't think I ever envisioned it this bad.

The bit above about Staley having a shoulder injury would help to explain things, but if that is the case, why haven't the Coaches pulled him so that a healthy player is in what is usually considered the most important spot? Has Sims slipped that bad?????

Tough call b/c if you move Staley to RT, where else are we going to run? Gore is way too slow laterally to string along and then dart up the line. He only has two runs now...up the gut and behind Davis off RT. If we made changes along the line, we'd need to change Gore for Dixon too.

We do need to mix in Dixon more. Gore is the man, but he needs to let the team do what it has to do to win. I know he wants to win as bad as the fans do. He has been putting up with this same stuff since 2005!

I wouldn't move Staley to RT at all. I would return the OLine to what it was last year. It played a lot better last year than it has this year.

Staley/Sims-Iupati-Heitman-Baas-Snyder

How does Synder upgrade RT? He gave up 9 sacks last year at RT.

Some people obviously have forgotten about upside. Davis is only 21 and he has plenty of upside. Synder has reached his ceiling as a horrific right tackle.

Does anyone else think our poor oline play is due directly to our predictable formations and play calling? The advantage the oline should have is the element of suprise, but with the niners that doesn't exist. The d knows when its pass or run. In other words, they know if the o line will be passive or aggressive.

Of course. Everyone knows we have the worst staff in the league, it's not even close. The coaching mecca has become the coaching restroom thanks to Singletary & co.
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by oldman9er:
I look forward to watching more closely this week, but yes, our OL is not playing well. We all see this. I really thought Solari would be an upgrade to Foerster, but it's not happening. Really thought Alex was gonna get broken during this game.

Right now, I just don't have a solution for the OL. What did impress me was their ability to come out of their stance quickly in pass pro... but that's not helping them protect as it should. Sorry for this worthless, unhelpful post... just rambling.

Big smiles for our first W though.

There was an article earlier this week on how Smith passes under duress more then any QB in the game. Today? It must have been around 75% of the time!
The announcers last week said Smith led the league in "hurries." He had 40 going into that game. Just guessing, but I would say he added another 10 to that total yesterday. There was hardly a time where he had a well-formed pocket of protection. It is hard for Smith and the offense to develop a rhythm when the OL can't provide basic protection.

Teams practice pass plays to happen at a certain time, say a 2.5 15 yard curl route. However, if the OL only provides 2 seconds of protection, the play will fail. That happened too much yesterday.
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by oldman9er:
I look forward to watching more closely this week, but yes, our OL is not playing well. We all see this. I really thought Solari would be an upgrade to Foerster, but it's not happening. Really thought Alex was gonna get broken during this game.

Right now, I just don't have a solution for the OL. What did impress me was their ability to come out of their stance quickly in pass pro... but that's not helping them protect as it should. Sorry for this worthless, unhelpful post... just rambling.

Big smiles for our first W though.

There was an article earlier this week on how Smith passes under duress more then any QB in the game. Today? It must have been around 75% of the time!
The announcers last week said Smith led the league in "hurries." He had 40 going into that game. Just guessing, but I would say he added another 10 to that total yesterday. There was hardly a time where he had a well-formed pocket of protection. It is hard for Smith and the offense to develop a rhythm when the OL can't provide basic protection.

Teams practice pass plays to happen at a certain time, say a 2.5 15 yard curl route. However, if the OL only provides 2 seconds of protection, the play will fail. That happened too much yesterday.

So why not put Smith in the shotgun so he gets an extra .5 seconds to read the Defense, why not call some quick pass plays, or even some that utilize misdirection to keep the D honest?
Originally posted by binary2nd:
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by oldman9er:
I look forward to watching more closely this week, but yes, our OL is not playing well. We all see this. I really thought Solari would be an upgrade to Foerster, but it's not happening. Really thought Alex was gonna get broken during this game.

Right now, I just don't have a solution for the OL. What did impress me was their ability to come out of their stance quickly in pass pro... but that's not helping them protect as it should. Sorry for this worthless, unhelpful post... just rambling.

Big smiles for our first W though.

There was an article earlier this week on how Smith passes under duress more then any QB in the game. Today? It must have been around 75% of the time!
The announcers last week said Smith led the league in "hurries." He had 40 going into that game. Just guessing, but I would say he added another 10 to that total yesterday. There was hardly a time where he had a well-formed pocket of protection. It is hard for Smith and the offense to develop a rhythm when the OL can't provide basic protection.

Teams practice pass plays to happen at a certain time, say a 2.5 15 yard curl route. However, if the OL only provides 2 seconds of protection, the play will fail. That happened too much yesterday.

So why not put Smith in the shotgun so he gets an extra .5 seconds to read the Defense, why not call some quick pass plays, or even some that utilize misdirection to keep the D honest?

we have been doing that, other teams have been noticing as well so they have been stacking short coverages with two safeties in the box. Thats why there have been no running lanes and no seperation. We need to throw deep to keep the D honest, which im glad to see we finally did yesterday.
Which begs the question, is it coaching? Talent? Some combination of both? If it's talent it's an indictment on our front office's ability to find players.

LT - 1st round (STALEY)
LG - 1st round (IUPATI)
C - 2nd round (BAAS)
RG - 2nd round (RACHAL)
RT - 1st round (DAVIS)

How can our line be this bad?

[ Edited by bzborow1 on Oct 18, 2010 at 10:41:50 ]
Originally posted by binary2nd:
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by oldman9er:
I look forward to watching more closely this week, but yes, our OL is not playing well. We all see this. I really thought Solari would be an upgrade to Foerster, but it's not happening. Really thought Alex was gonna get broken during this game.

Right now, I just don't have a solution for the OL. What did impress me was their ability to come out of their stance quickly in pass pro... but that's not helping them protect as it should. Sorry for this worthless, unhelpful post... just rambling.

Big smiles for our first W though.

There was an article earlier this week on how Smith passes under duress more then any QB in the game. Today? It must have been around 75% of the time!
The announcers last week said Smith led the league in "hurries." He had 40 going into that game. Just guessing, but I would say he added another 10 to that total yesterday. There was hardly a time where he had a well-formed pocket of protection. It is hard for Smith and the offense to develop a rhythm when the OL can't provide basic protection.

Teams practice pass plays to happen at a certain time, say a 2.5 15 yard curl route. However, if the OL only provides 2 seconds of protection, the play will fail. That happened too much yesterday.

So why not put Smith in the shotgun so he gets an extra .5 seconds to read the Defense, why not call some quick pass plays, or even some that utilize misdirection to keep the D honest?

When a QB leads the league in hurries or sacks, you can't just look at the OL. I think both are playing a role in this. Go back and look at the game because I noticed a lot of times when the pressure was confronted but was still coming yet Alex didn't seem to sense it until it was too late. These were plays where there were open pockets that he could have shifted to.
One thing that would help the OL development, and efficiency is moving to a zone blocking scheme instead of man blocking. It won't solve all the issues but it is easier on running plays, especially off tackle and outside runs. It is also easier for the center and guards in pass protect, and somewhat easier for the tackles.

If anyone saw the Redskin game last night, you saw a master at work with it. Mike Shanahan has used zone blocking beginning in his time as OC with the 49ers. He took it to Denver and it seemed like he could plug in Bozo the Clown at running back and he would go over 100 yards/game. Ryan Torain, a nobody runner, put up some nice numbers due to big space created for him by the OL.

Instead of locking in on a man, in zone use just block anyone coming into your space. Instead of relying on a pulling guard to come across and lead, the line just moves in the direction of the run and leaves a single blocker to cut off back side pursuit.

Part of the problem with tackle play is the uncertainty of the guard play - no one seems to be playing with confidence and knowing that they can just fire out and make the correct block.