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  • ZRF80
  • Member
  • Posts: 13,551
Originally posted by kray28:
Originally posted by ZRF80:
Originally posted by kray28:
Originally posted by D_Niner:
Originally posted by binary2nd:
Originally posted by ElDannMann:


1. Great QBs can still make that perfect pass even under duress. Not always, but still completing over 50% of their passes is ideal. Alex simply cannot do that, practically ever. In these cases it could make him more worthy of a QB if he would use his mobility to get some yards or even a first down, or simply to escape the pressure and find an open receiver.


What Alex's ceiling is, who knows, we won't know until he's with an OC that knows what their doing. But I agree with you here, and a lot of it is mechanics. Alex doesn't have a very strong arm and has a big windup to his release. He needs space and an extra bit of time to get his pass off. Because of this, if he's under pressure, his mechanics go crazy and his passes become horrible.

Yeah, exactly. Get him a OC like Norv Turner or Mike Martz and lets see what he can do. Oh, wait...

Uhm....he actually did reasonably well in 1 full season as a starter under Turner. (that's right, he's actually started 1 full season for us so far)

He never even saw the field under Martz. It was the JTO/Shaun Hill show.

And why didnt he see the field under Martz ?

If I remember correctly, he was coming off an injury, and JTO was Martz' guy.



Martz refrained from harsh criticism of Smith, but did say that Smith often didn't know where to go with his passes and said he had a hard time trusting his receivers. "Some of his receivers were a little subpar," Martz said. "When that happens, you cut corners."

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/ninerinsider/detail?entry_id=41685#ixzz12LYv92KA
Originally posted by fly15:
Originally posted by binary2nd:
He's definitely improved a lot this year, I'll say that much. It's a shame his numbers don't back it up, but he's a lot better. A lot of this also goes back to coaching and Sing's love affair with Chilo. The OL has performed a lot better with Chilo on the bench, but Sing seems oblivious.

improved, ohh yes, more interceptions than tds....

I wonder what games his watching..
  • dmax
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 22,773
Originally posted by TheNef77:
This article just scream one thing to me. BENCH CHILO RACHAL!!!!!!!!!!!!

truth right here
  • kray28
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 12,345
Originally posted by ZRF80:
Originally posted by kray28:
Originally posted by ZRF80:
Originally posted by kray28:
Originally posted by D_Niner:
Originally posted by binary2nd:
Originally posted by ElDannMann:


1. Great QBs can still make that perfect pass even under duress. Not always, but still completing over 50% of their passes is ideal. Alex simply cannot do that, practically ever. In these cases it could make him more worthy of a QB if he would use his mobility to get some yards or even a first down, or simply to escape the pressure and find an open receiver.


What Alex's ceiling is, who knows, we won't know until he's with an OC that knows what their doing. But I agree with you here, and a lot of it is mechanics. Alex doesn't have a very strong arm and has a big windup to his release. He needs space and an extra bit of time to get his pass off. Because of this, if he's under pressure, his mechanics go crazy and his passes become horrible.

Yeah, exactly. Get him a OC like Norv Turner or Mike Martz and lets see what he can do. Oh, wait...

Uhm....he actually did reasonably well in 1 full season as a starter under Turner. (that's right, he's actually started 1 full season for us so far)

He never even saw the field under Martz. It was the JTO/Shaun Hill show.

And why didnt he see the field under Martz ?

If I remember correctly, he was coming off an injury, and JTO was Martz' guy.



Martz refrained from harsh criticism of Smith, but did say that Smith often didn't know where to go with his passes and said he had a hard time trusting his receivers. "Some of his receivers were a little subpar," Martz said. "When that happens, you cut corners."

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/ninerinsider/detail?entry_id=41685#ixzz12LYv92KA

That was Martz' opinion from the getgo, as far as Alex understanding his offense....and he was set on JTO as his guy from the start. Alex never even got a chance to compete for the job. Plus, he was already in Nolan's doghouse from the shoulder injury fiasco the year before.
  • ZRF80
  • Member
  • Posts: 13,551
Originally posted by 49P-Dub52:
Originally posted by fly15:
Originally posted by binary2nd:
He's definitely improved a lot this year, I'll say that much. It's a shame his numbers don't back it up, but he's a lot better. A lot of this also goes back to coaching and Sing's love affair with Chilo. The OL has performed a lot better with Chilo on the bench, but Sing seems oblivious.

improved, ohh yes, more interceptions than tds....

I wonder what games his watching..

The Seahawks game from 06.

  • ZRF80
  • Member
  • Posts: 13,551
Originally posted by kray28:
Originally posted by ZRF80:
Originally posted by kray28:
Originally posted by ZRF80:
Originally posted by kray28:
Originally posted by D_Niner:
Originally posted by binary2nd:
Originally posted by ElDannMann:


1. Great QBs can still make that perfect pass even under duress. Not always, but still completing over 50% of their passes is ideal. Alex simply cannot do that, practically ever. In these cases it could make him more worthy of a QB if he would use his mobility to get some yards or even a first down, or simply to escape the pressure and find an open receiver.


What Alex's ceiling is, who knows, we won't know until he's with an OC that knows what their doing. But I agree with you here, and a lot of it is mechanics. Alex doesn't have a very strong arm and has a big windup to his release. He needs space and an extra bit of time to get his pass off. Because of this, if he's under pressure, his mechanics go crazy and his passes become horrible.

Yeah, exactly. Get him a OC like Norv Turner or Mike Martz and lets see what he can do. Oh, wait...

Uhm....he actually did reasonably well in 1 full season as a starter under Turner. (that's right, he's actually started 1 full season for us so far)

He never even saw the field under Martz. It was the JTO/Shaun Hill show.

And why didnt he see the field under Martz ?

If I remember correctly, he was coming off an injury, and JTO was Martz' guy.



Martz refrained from harsh criticism of Smith, but did say that Smith often didn't know where to go with his passes and said he had a hard time trusting his receivers. "Some of his receivers were a little subpar," Martz said. "When that happens, you cut corners."

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/ninerinsider/detail?entry_id=41685#ixzz12LYv92KA

That was Martz' opinion from the getgo, as far as Alex understanding his offense....and he was set on JTO as his guy from the start. Alex never even got a chance to compete for the job. Plus, he was already in Nolan's doghouse from the shoulder injury fiasco the year before.

So it was a conspiracy and Alex wasnt given a fair chance on purpose ?
f**king loser , 6 years done s**t for this team , the f**king owner also !

we have a talented bad team with a bad HC !
  • fly15
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 5,755
Originally posted by cNiner:
f**king loser , 6 years done s**t for this team , the f**king owner also !

we have a talented bad team with a bad HC !

Captain Loser
Originally posted by dmax:
Originally posted by TheNef77:
This article just scream one thing to me. BENCH CHILO RACHAL!!!!!!!!!!!!

truth right here

This is pissing me off as much as the predictable up the gut runs. It's clear to everyone that Chilo stinks and the line plays better when he's on the bench.

We deserve an answer as to why Singletary refuses to bench him.

[ Edited by SanFranAddic on Oct 14, 2010 at 08:45:24 ]
Originally posted by SanFranAddic:
Originally posted by dmax:
Originally posted by TheNef77:
This article just scream one thing to me. BENCH CHILO RACHAL!!!!!!!!!!!!

truth right here

This is pissing me off as much as the predictable up the gut runs. It's clear to everyone that Chilo stinks and the line plays better when he's on the bench.

We deserve an answer as to why Singletary refuses to bench him.

All we are gonna get is "going forward" or "Chilo is going to get where he needs to be."

Remember last year when they just up and cut Rossum out of nowhere. Sing of Scott never answered who or why he was cut. And the special teams really went to crap after that. Doesn't seem we ever get a clear cut answer just off brand generalizations.

  • dj43
  • Moderator
  • Posts: 35,666
Originally posted by ZRF80:
The article is referring to the 49ers of 2010. However, you cannot tell the NFL world with a straight face that in ALL the games that Alex Smith has played in, his line has sucked/his receivers couldnt catch/his OC couldnt call good plays/his defense stunk it up.


Get over it. His time in SF is over...........

Your final statement is one I agree with.

As to your opening sentence, yes, I can, and MANY, MANY NFL observers can report with certainty, that Alex Smith came to a team that those observers said had less talent than many first year expansion teams. Though he had two decent, not great OCs for one year each, the rest of the surrounding cast of receivers and OL have been re-casts like Jennings, formerly good players like Allen, or pure junk like Harris. His receivers have been typified by Johnny Morton and Arnaz Battle and Isaac Bruce - either faded players or never were competent players. NEVER, NEVER has he had what any reasonable observer could call a competent OL and even average quality WRs up until this year, and this year again, the OL is a mess and the offensive style is archaic.

The ESPN article is accurate. It says the 49er offensive line is a mess and any quarterback playing behind it is going to be handicapped.
Originally posted by tjd808185:
Originally posted by Ceadderman:
Originally posted by Bali-Niner:
Originally posted by binary2nd:
He's definitely improved a lot this year, I'll say that much. It's a shame his numbers don't back it up, but he's a lot better. A lot of this also goes back to coaching and Sing's love affair with Chilo. The OL has performed a lot better with Chilo on the bench, but Sing seems oblivious.

Gosh Alex is so good I think wild dogs should kiss his rear end, and give Sing brown lollipops!!

The zone, just rules!

Okay now Bali, you don't have to behave like an ass to show your difference of opinion.


Alex Smith This Season:
Under Duress=======No Pressure
Comp Pct 26.8=====71.8 <
Pass Yds 98------------1,131
Yds/Att 2.4------------7.6
TD-INT 1-4------------5-5
Passer Rtg 8.1------------90.8 <

> NFL Avg: 66.3 comp pct, 91.4 passer rtg

This clearly shows that Smith is not a bad QB.

But then that doesn't jive with your opinion either. So should I brace and await insult?

You who said that I act high an mighty to put it in simple terms?

Dude c'mon, you're better than this. I know you are. But I think you're letting this get to you so you gotta take it out on people defending Smith.

Smith has made some mistakes to be sure. But when you're running for your life you're bound to make a few.

I been sayin it since the KC game but Chilo definitely needs to be benched. He was pretty good in the Seattle game til he got that Stinger. But since he's been back in the Starting role he's blown chowder.

~Ceadder

One problem here. You're comparing the average NFL quarterbacks stats with pressure included against Alex Smith's stats without pressure.

You're cherry picking stats there.

Ummmm NO read the stats again. They are for the Iggles game. I didn't cherry pick s**t.

~Ceadder
  • Baldie
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 21,135
Alex has been in the league 6 years but hasn't had a chance to be comfortable in an offensive system. The only potential breakthrough was with Norv Turner but that marriage didn't last long. You have potential to be a good QB when you get comfortable with the offensive system and Smith hasn't had that chance. Alot of people blame him for the losses, which yes some are his fault. But when you have an OLine thats still trying to gel, a questionable HC, constant changing OC, a defense that seems to be slipping after domination the previous season, not only does Alex need to improve but so does every other aspect of the team. We notice all the negative things Alex has done but most of us don't notice all the things he's improved on. We've seen his potential in some of the games this year. I mean name one QB who's had a different OC every season they've been in the league. If Alex has a more open-minded HC, an OC that can be more creative with the teams strenghts, and those coaches stay with the team for maybe 3 years for consistency, we'd see a different Alex Smith. In my opinion he's not playing comfortable and the offense isn't playing to the teams strength which is the spread. Everyone expected us to win the division but the truth is our talent just isn't working with the type of philosophy thats in place.

If you want a fast fix I think...Sing needs to let Mike Johnson do his thing with no input from Sing. Shuffle the OLine for better pass protection. Pass more to set up the run. When the offense gets motivated again, so will the defense.

[ Edited by Baldie on Oct 14, 2010 at 09:10:06 ]
Originally posted by Bali-Niner:
Originally posted by Ceadderman:
Originally posted by Bali-Niner:
Originally posted by binary2nd:
He's definitely improved a lot this year, I'll say that much. It's a shame his numbers don't back it up, but he's a lot better. A lot of this also goes back to coaching and Sing's love affair with Chilo. The OL has performed a lot better with Chilo on the bench, but Sing seems oblivious.

Gosh Alex is so good I think wild dogs should kiss his rear end, and give Sing brown lollipops!!

The zone, just rules!

Okay now Bali, you don't have to behave like an ass to show your difference of opinion.


Alex Smith This Season:
Under Duress=======No Pressure
Comp Pct 26.8=====71.8 <
Pass Yds 98------------1,131
Yds/Att 2.4------------7.6
TD-INT 1-4------------5-5
Passer Rtg 8.1------------90.8 <

> NFL Avg: 66.3 comp pct, 91.4 passer rtg

This clearly shows that Smith is not a bad QB.

But then that doesn't jive with your opinion either. So should I brace and await insult?

You who said that I act high an mighty to put it in simple terms?

Dude c'mon, you're better than this. I know you are. But I think you're letting this get to you so you gotta take it out on people defending Smith.

Smith has made some mistakes to be sure. But when you're running for your life you're bound to make a few.

I been sayin it since the KC game but Chilo definitely needs to be benched. He was pretty good in the Seattle game til he got that Stinger. But since he's been back in the Starting role he's blown chowder.

~Ceadder

ASS!!!!!! Mods, I've been insulted, I've been dissed in pubic!

Bro you just have to tone down the condescending tone of your posts a tad. But I think you may not know how.

The Oline has played like turnstiles, but if you look around the league now, and in the past you will see QBs, who pulled it down rather than get hit and throw an INT with less than a min to go, QBs who don't "normally" lose close games consistently right at the end, things like that. What's the purpose of continuing the Alex era if we don't win?

The coaching is absurd, it's surreal, it is nightmarish. So Smith loses again on the coaching end. IE, he is not getting whatever he needs to go beyond the limited talent he has.

How can you in good faith and with eyes wide open (or shut) continue to back this fellow?! You are simply amazing in this regard..

However, I do think you complained to the mods about me calling you "pompous" and a dunce.. did you? That would be ummm... Alex like maybe!

Whatever.... Did you read Patty's thread about just going with the surreal BS we know as the Niners season and enjoying it for the shear insanity of it all?

Now that was a timely thread if ever there was one! Cheers and a bottoms up to her!

GO NINERS!!!! ~

Nope didn't complain. And I didn't call you an ass. I said "Don't BE an ass" There is a difference between BE and ARE. You might look up those two words in Websters.

And about me being pompous? There is a fine line of being and are here too. If you agree with me then it's witty and insightful. If you disagree with me then my comedic talent is being perceived as me being pompous.

And I will continue to back Smith unless he does something truly boneheaded for the rest of the season. It was a bad move to go backward trying to evade the Sack. Forget throwing the ball away, the same thing was going to happen. Smith even SAID that was what he was trying to do. And besides at that point I do not believe that he was outside the tackles. If he did throw it and it did not make it to the Line of Scrimmage that's an intentional grounding penalty. So best to take a sack rather than fumble it. But hey I give him a C for trying to escape. If that was a Tackle he would have gotten away. But Philly pulled their Tackles and send in Ends.

As far as the 2nd INT goes, there was no time left on the clock and he was trying to throw the ball downfield. In any case he got hit 3/4 of the way through his motion and wasn't able to step into his throw. Even YOU have to admit that Smith's Pass was WILDLY inaccurate. Even for him. It was like a Shaun Hill Pass, that's how bad it looked.

Until Smith is gone I'll continue to root for him and defend him against you "knowledgeable" and "sane" fans as long as you continue to excuse the rest of the team.

~Ceadder
Originally posted by ZRF80:
Originally posted by Ceadderman:
Originally posted by ZRF80:
Originally posted by 49ersalldaway126:
Originally posted by ZRF80:
Originally posted by 49ersalldaway126:
Originally posted by ZRF80:
Originally posted by binary2nd:
Originally posted by ZRF80:
The article is referring to the 49ers of 2010. However, you cannot tell the NFL world with a straight face that in ALL the games that Alex Smith has played in, his line has sucked/his receivers couldnt catch/his OC couldnt call good plays/his defense stunk it up.

.

LOL, did you know that statistically, our OL was the worst pass-protecting line in the league last year?

Didnt Rodgers line give up more sacks than ours last year ? Didnt seem to affect his probowl status, now did it ?

if u watched him play he holds on the ball for like 4 to 5 seconds he holds on to the ball for a long time

alex on the other hand doesnt have that luxury


Wrong again. Through the first month of last season, Rodgers did not rank in the top 10 of QBs holding the ball too long.

http://nfl.fanhouse.com/2009/09/23/which-quarterbacks-hold-the-ball-too-long/

In another article from November, one analyst provided stats on sacks that were the fault of the oline. He excluded sacks that were attributed to the QB holding on to the ball or running out of bounds.

http://nfl.fanhouse.com/2009/11/13/between-the-lines-whos-allowing-the-most-sacks/

http://nfl.fanhouse.com/2009/11/13/between-the-lines-sacks-allowed-sorted-by-team/

GB's oline allowed more sacks on Rodgers than SF's.

exactly dude

he may not hold the ball too long to be sacked he hold on the ball like 4 -5 seconds to find an open guy that guy has a good o line so he doesnt get sacked

even GB fans knows he holds the ball on for too long


He LED the league in getting sacked. The primary reason for this was his oline (as seen in above link). Therefore, we can conclude that his oline was worse than Smith's. Yet he still played like a probowler. What's Smith's excuse ?

Ever thought that Smith doesn't get sacked as much because of his feet, and dumpoffs and getting rid of the ball?

Oh btw for your information this Line gives up an average of 50+ Sacks a season. So I don't know how you can justify that Rodgers is better just cause his Line "Sucks more than ours does". It doesn't. Smith just gets rid of the ball better than Rodgers does. That's a fact.

~Ceadder


So lets break it down further.

In terms of rush attempts, Alex ran 24 times for 51 yards. Rodgers rushed 58 times for 316 yards. Which mean either the Packers were calling a lot more QB draws/sneaks for Rodgers, or that he was being flushed out of the pocket more because of his piss poor oline. I tend to believe the latter.

Cant blame the "holding on to the ball to long" theory because I just posted links that negate that.

If you're defending that Smith gets rid of the ball more, well.........Smith attempted 372 passes, and completed 225 of them. Rodgers attempted 541 passes, and completed 350 of them. Rodgers attempted 200 more times, yet still had a better completion percentage than Smith (64.7 to 60.5).

If we're going by "dumpoffs", Rodgers threw the ball less than 10 yards 361 times, and completed it 269 (74% completion rate). Smith, on the other hand, threw the ball less than 10 yards 267 times, and completed it 176 times (65% completion rate). Rodgers still did a better job getting rid of it and "dumping".


So Rodgers has a worse oline, is flushed out of the pocket more, dumps the ball better, and still has a probowl year. Alex doesnt.

Your turn.

Are these last years numbers? If so you're goofy for even comparing them.

Rodgers played 16 games. Smith played 10.5

Don't make me go all algebra on your goofy argument. Cause you WILL lose. But then again that never stops you. You'll just say that I'm making it up.

~Ceadder
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