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The NFL's # 1 Defense Thread

Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by lamontb:
And where is the change on defense? I mean did sing only watch offensive snaps. At what point does he tell Manusky you have to do something to ramp up the pressure on qb's. You can't keep praying that Manny and Parys are gonna drink some pass rushing juice and get some sacks.

I don't know man. To play Devil's Advocate, my fear is that this defense is way too complicated (ala Jimmy Raye's system with all the verbiage) and therefore, Manusky has strong-armed himself by sticking with players playing together all these years but players who are not very good at their primary responsibilities for the most part. Is he stuck with Manny/Haralson b/c they know the defense best but b/c they are one dimensional players and lack the #1 skill for these positions, he is forced to generate a pass rush from everywhere else on the field? That's great but ask yourself this question...how many of those sacks made a difference in the game. It seems like just about every sack Brooks made last year was on third down, forced a fumble, hurried a throw or flat out dominated a divisional opponent. That's the kind of playmaking you need at ALL FOUR of the LB positions. So, did Manusky handcuff himself by having a complex scheme that won't allow for players that may be a better long-term fit for us (Brooks, LaBoy, Bowman, Smith, Mays, etc.). Is that why we've ignored the NT position, pass rushing OLB's and top tier CB's all these years? Is that why Manusky said it would take Mays three years to become a starter on this defense yet in Seattle, their rookie safety is not only starting but making huge plays already?

I think on many levels our best players for a "real 3-4 defense" have been sitting on the bench and in some cases, have been for years.

Either way, I don't know how you can have the worst defense in the league and NOT make one single change. I was a big fan of Manusky in San Diego but somewhere between Nolan and Singletary, he's lost his balls! Think of the long list of potential pass rushing studs that could have fit in this defense and/or been developed just with the four LB positions over the years.

To add to that Eagles and Packers are both starting there rookie safeties and they are both making plays. How is that our staff can't get Mays on the field. Personally I didn't like the pick but they have to coach up his natural ability.

One thing that Wade Phillips can do is coach up a 3-4 defense so Manusky learned form a good source. And the Niners 3-4 looks nothing like the cowboys who play aggressive and attack offenses. I mean after 4/5 years there hasn't been any infusion of suitable players minus draft picks to this defense. Right now Manny and Parys are killing the defense b/c they can't rush the passer. i wish ppl would watch Pittsburgh play and just watch Woodley, and Harrison play football. That is what real 3-4 olb'ers look like. They do everything and play all 4 downs. Folks are hype b/c Manny can set the edge on run plays. That's just settling for mediocracy.
Originally posted by lamontb:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by lamontb:
And where is the change on defense? I mean did sing only watch offensive snaps. At what point does he tell Manusky you have to do something to ramp up the pressure on qb's. You can't keep praying that Manny and Parys are gonna drink some pass rushing juice and get some sacks.

I don't know man. To play Devil's Advocate, my fear is that this defense is way too complicated (ala Jimmy Raye's system with all the verbiage) and therefore, Manusky has strong-armed himself by sticking with players playing together all these years but players who are not very good at their primary responsibilities for the most part. Is he stuck with Manny/Haralson b/c they know the defense best but b/c they are one dimensional players and lack the #1 skill for these positions, he is forced to generate a pass rush from everywhere else on the field? That's great but ask yourself this question...how many of those sacks made a difference in the game. It seems like just about every sack Brooks made last year was on third down, forced a fumble, hurried a throw or flat out dominated a divisional opponent. That's the kind of playmaking you need at ALL FOUR of the LB positions. So, did Manusky handcuff himself by having a complex scheme that won't allow for players that may be a better long-term fit for us (Brooks, LaBoy, Bowman, Smith, Mays, etc.). Is that why we've ignored the NT position, pass rushing OLB's and top tier CB's all these years? Is that why Manusky said it would take Mays three years to become a starter on this defense yet in Seattle, their rookie safety is not only starting but making huge plays already?

I think on many levels our best players for a "real 3-4 defense" have been sitting on the bench and in some cases, have been for years.

Either way, I don't know how you can have the worst defense in the league and NOT make one single change. I was a big fan of Manusky in San Diego but somewhere between Nolan and Singletary, he's lost his balls! Think of the long list of potential pass rushing studs that could have fit in this defense and/or been developed just with the four LB positions over the years.

To add to that Eagles and Packers are both starting there rookie safeties and they are both making plays. How is that our staff can't get Mays on the field. Personally I didn't like the pick but they have to coach up his natural ability.

One thing that Wade Phillips can do is coach up a 3-4 defense so Manusky learned form a good source. And the Niners 3-4 looks nothing like the cowboys who play aggressive and attack offenses. I mean after 4/5 years there hasn't been any infusion of suitable players minus draft picks to this defense. Right now Manny and Parys are killing the defense b/c they can't rush the passer. i wish ppl would watch Pittsburgh play and just watch Woodley, and Harrison play football. That is what real 3-4 olb'ers look like. They do everything and play all 4 downs. Folks are hype b/c Manny can set the edge on run plays. That's just settling for mediocracy.

I told my friend by showing him how bad ass woodley was by sacking him every play that year with mich. He agreed that he was truly a 3-4 olb lol parys he's slow to avg we should have keep peterson. manny may be to weak, but he seems to just trip over his long legs.
[ Edited by TheGoldDiggerrrr on Sep 30, 2010 at 1:22 PM ]
How about improving on defending some things we always get ripped on, Mr. Gregory "Doesn't Know What a Screen Pass Is" Manusky?
!!Niner Talk!!
Originally posted by jimmythegreekjr:
How about improving on defending some things we always get ripped on, Mr. Gregory "Doesn't Know What a Screen Pass Is" Manusky?

I don't get it. If we aren't focusing much on a pass rush specialist and our guys aren't getting to the QB anyways, then how in the f**k are we not in better position against screens? Aren't screens most effective against aggressive pass rush Defenses?

I mean, is Parys really THAT slow?
jerry rice was'nt that fast...and we won superbowls...
Insert "DefensEXCUSES" here:
Originally posted by lamontb:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by lamontb:
And where is the change on defense? I mean did sing only watch offensive snaps. At what point does he tell Manusky you have to do something to ramp up the pressure on qb's. You can't keep praying that Manny and Parys are gonna drink some pass rushing juice and get some sacks.

I don't know man. To play Devil's Advocate, my fear is that this defense is way too complicated (ala Jimmy Raye's system with all the verbiage) and therefore, Manusky has strong-armed himself by sticking with players playing together all these years but players who are not very good at their primary responsibilities for the most part. Is he stuck with Manny/Haralson b/c they know the defense best but b/c they are one dimensional players and lack the #1 skill for these positions, he is forced to generate a pass rush from everywhere else on the field? That's great but ask yourself this question...how many of those sacks made a difference in the game. It seems like just about every sack Brooks made last year was on third down, forced a fumble, hurried a throw or flat out dominated a divisional opponent. That's the kind of playmaking you need at ALL FOUR of the LB positions. So, did Manusky handcuff himself by having a complex scheme that won't allow for players that may be a better long-term fit for us (Brooks, LaBoy, Bowman, Smith, Mays, etc.). Is that why we've ignored the NT position, pass rushing OLB's and top tier CB's all these years? Is that why Manusky said it would take Mays three years to become a starter on this defense yet in Seattle, their rookie safety is not only starting but making huge plays already?

I think on many levels our best players for a "real 3-4 defense" have been sitting on the bench and in some cases, have been for years.

Either way, I don't know how you can have the worst defense in the league and NOT make one single change. I was a big fan of Manusky in San Diego but somewhere between Nolan and Singletary, he's lost his balls! Think of the long list of potential pass rushing studs that could have fit in this defense and/or been developed just with the four LB positions over the years.

To add to that Eagles and Packers are both starting there rookie safeties and they are both making plays. How is that our staff can't get Mays on the field. Personally I didn't like the pick but they have to coach up his natural ability.

One thing that Wade Phillips can do is coach up a 3-4 defense so Manusky learned form a good source. And the Niners 3-4 looks nothing like the cowboys who play aggressive and attack offenses. I mean after 4/5 years there hasn't been any infusion of suitable players minus draft picks to this defense. Right now Manny and Parys are killing the defense b/c they can't rush the passer. i wish ppl would watch Pittsburgh play and just watch Woodley, and Harrison play football. That is what real 3-4 olb'ers look like. They do everything and play all 4 downs. Folks are hype b/c Manny can set the edge on run plays. That's just settling for mediocracy.

I loved the pick. He's better the other safeties you mention. Needs a chance to show off. Or I think the season is lost. Add Bowman to this
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by lamontb:
And where is the change on defense? I mean did sing only watch offensive snaps. At what point does he tell Manusky you have to do something to ramp up the pressure on qb's. You can't keep praying that Manny and Parys are gonna drink some pass rushing juice and get some sacks.

I don't know man. To play Devil's Advocate, my fear is that this defense is way too complicated (ala Jimmy Raye's system with all the verbiage) and therefore, Manusky has strong-armed himself by sticking with players playing together all these years but players who are not very good at their primary responsibilities for the most part. Is he stuck with Manny/Haralson b/c they know the defense best but b/c they are one dimensional players and lack the #1 skill for these positions, he is forced to generate a pass rush from everywhere else on the field? That's great but ask yourself this question...how many of those sacks made a difference in the game. It seems like just about every sack Brooks made last year was on third down, forced a fumble, hurried a throw or flat out dominated a divisional opponent. That's the kind of playmaking you need at ALL FOUR of the LB positions. So, did Manusky handcuff himself by having a complex scheme that won't allow for players that may be a better long-term fit for us (Brooks, LaBoy, Bowman, Smith, Mays, etc.). Is that why we've ignored the NT position, pass rushing OLB's and top tier CB's all these years? Is that why Manusky said it would take Mays three years to become a starter on this defense yet in Seattle, their rookie safety is not only starting but making huge plays already?

I think on many levels our best players for a "real 3-4 defense" have been sitting on the bench and in some cases, have been for years.

Either way, I don't know how you can have the worst defense in the league and NOT make one single change. I was a big fan of Manusky in San Diego but somewhere between Nolan and Singletary, he's lost his balls! Think of the long list of potential pass rushing studs that could have fit in this defense and/or been developed just with the four LB positions over the years.

Mr. NCommand-thank you for writing.
Originally posted by GoGetit:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by lamontb:
And where is the change on defense? I mean did sing only watch offensive snaps. At what point does he tell Manusky you have to do something to ramp up the pressure on qb's. You can't keep praying that Manny and Parys are gonna drink some pass rushing juice and get some sacks.

I don't know man. To play Devil's Advocate, my fear is that this defense is way too complicated (ala Jimmy Raye's system with all the verbiage) and therefore, Manusky has strong-armed himself by sticking with players playing together all these years but players who are not very good at their primary responsibilities for the most part. Is he stuck with Manny/Haralson b/c they know the defense best but b/c they are one dimensional players and lack the #1 skill for these positions, he is forced to generate a pass rush from everywhere else on the field? That's great but ask yourself this question...how many of those sacks made a difference in the game. It seems like just about every sack Brooks made last year was on third down, forced a fumble, hurried a throw or flat out dominated a divisional opponent. That's the kind of playmaking you need at ALL FOUR of the LB positions. So, did Manusky handcuff himself by having a complex scheme that won't allow for players that may be a better long-term fit for us (Brooks, LaBoy, Bowman, Smith, Mays, etc.). Is that why we've ignored the NT position, pass rushing OLB's and top tier CB's all these years? Is that why Manusky said it would take Mays three years to become a starter on this defense yet in Seattle, their rookie safety is not only starting but making huge plays already?

I think on many levels our best players for a "real 3-4 defense" have been sitting on the bench and in some cases, have been for years.

Either way, I don't know how you can have the worst defense in the league and NOT make one single change. I was a big fan of Manusky in San Diego but somewhere between Nolan and Singletary, he's lost his balls! Think of the long list of potential pass rushing studs that could have fit in this defense and/or been developed just with the four LB positions over the years.

Mr. NCommand-thank you for writing.

Nolan's defense was fairly complicated also. He's had success in Denver and is having success in MIA.

I have a feeling it has more to do with what type of defense is being called per play throughout the game combined with morale once they see our offense get dominated or turn the ball over multiple times a game.
Originally posted by GoGetit:
Mr. NCommand-thank you for writing.

My pleasure! I love talking defense...have for years and years on this forum. Love talking offense too (philosophy, coaching, system players, etc.). Hell, I just love Niner football, period!
Originally posted by Joecool:
Nolan's defense was fairly complicated also. He's had success in Denver and is having success in MIA

I thought about this too! So, EVERYONE knew that Nolan was known as Mr. Vanilla as a DC and coach here with SF. Then, he goes to Denver and Miami and becomes totally aggressive. Why? B/c his new employers asked him too or b/c he had better talent to execute a more aggressive defense. Again, was he, like Manusky now, hand-cuffed here b/c of the lack of talent in 3 of the 4 LBers and their inability to do their primary jobs which in turn affects the secondary and what their strengths are? Tough call...
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Insert "DefensEXCUSES" here:

What excuses? Let's just sweep it under the rug and blame the offense!

Per MS: No need to look at Haralson/Lawson as they are playing "great!" and collectively, save for the KC game, the defense has been playing "lights out!"

W. T. F!!!!
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Insert "DefensEXCUSES" here:

What excuses? Let's just sweep it under the rug and blame the offense!

Per MS: No need to look at Haralson/Lawson as they are playing "great!" and collectively, save for the KC game, the defense has been playing "lights out!"

W. T. F!!!!

Look how many points they are giving up. Look how many huge plays they are giving up. Look at the red zone scores. Look how the can't stop a RB screen.

Insert DefensEXCUSES:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Nolan's defense was fairly complicated also. He's had success in Denver and is having success in MIA

I thought about this too! So, EVERYONE knew that Nolan was known as Mr. Vanilla as a DC and coach here with SF. Then, he goes to Denver and Miami and becomes totally aggressive. Why? B/c his new employers asked him too or b/c he had better talent to execute a more aggressive defense. Again, was he, like Manusky now, hand-cuffed here b/c of the lack of talent in 3 of the 4 LBers and their inability to do their primary jobs which in turn affects the secondary and what their strengths are? Tough call...

Then that doesn't explain Brooks.