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Lowell Cohn's new column

Originally posted by area49:
Originally posted by backontop:
Originally posted by area49:
Originally posted by backontop:
Originally posted by area49:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by area49:
Originally posted by SJniner7:
"The Prince finally needs to get it right. If he does, good for him. If he can't get it right, he will have to fire Singletary and get a new offensive coordinator and a new quarterback, and then start all over again from the beginning. If it comes to that, he and Dad should just sell the team."

I am confused on what exactly he means by "getting it right"? Does he mean if Johnson works out, which had nothing to do with him? Or is he suggesting that Sing would be fired and hire a legitimate coach if the Niners fall hard?

Johnson is Sing's last ditch effort, and could make or break his job. This is similar to how Smith is going to make or break our season.

I agree with the hiring of Sing, as it seemed he was just given the job following half of 2008. We should have at least waited and seen what would come available. You guys all talk like "selling" the team is the answer.

My fears would be moving the team or even selling to a worse owner than we currently have. Trust me, there are worst owners than the Yorks...

There are no owners worse than the Yorks, and moving the team would be nothing short of a blessing.


Seriously, dude, thanks. At least SOMEONE agrees with me. I really think that, if Ed Roski or Larry Ellison just moved this team to LA, it would be able to thrive and have a new identity. Everytime I suggest it here, all I get is "f**k LA".

F**K LA!!!

Wow. What a thoughtful and eloquent rebuttal.

poor suggestions get poor responses.

Again, how is it a poor suggestion when I've laid out various reasons why I think it would be a good idea?

Are you really asking that??

For starters because the team isn't moving to LA. Just because you live close to LA doesn't make it a good idea to move the team down there. Second there is going to be a stadium built in Santa Clara (remember the big vote that happened??) And lastly because F**K LA!!!
Knock it off already! You guys are hijacking this thread. It's not location that matters. You can put the Yorks in all 50 states and they still suck just as bad.



Originally posted by dj43:
You make some good points here, and bring some important history into focus. Let me emphasize a couple of points:

John York never wanted to run the team, and it showed. He didn't take the time to learn how to do it because he didn't want to be there. He happened to be married to Denise and they had a son that wanted to be involved in the business, and that was the game plan all along. Jed is young and seems to be learning well. He is a bright kid with a degree from a top notch university.

Selling the team in today's economic environment is hard. As you noted, the cash stream for the 49ers is not very good. Only the Lions and the Vikings generated less revenue than the 49ers last year. Their stadium is the worst in the league and the city of San Francisco has been a millstone around their York's neck in terms of getting a new place built. When the Dolphins were recently sold, it included a nice piece of real estate with great future value. The 49ers play in a place no one wants to live or work. No one would want to buy a franchise with those problems.

One interesting point you recalled was the fact Mike McCarthy supported the drafting of Smith over Rodgers. Then he takes second choice and turns him into one of the better QBs in the league. McCarthy's analysis of Smith and the job he subsequently did with Rodgers should reinforce the need for better offensive minds in SF and a higher value for Smith than many here hold.

Thanks dj...

I think the wholesale blaming of the Yorks is an oversimplifying the actual history of the team. It's fun to try and paint them that way and it may sell papers, but the reality is that for the most part, the Yorks have gotten out of the way and relied on who they were told were good football people were.

I challenge anyone based on the facts of what happened over time that you just can't say "it's the York's fault because they're bad owners." That is just not the complete truth.
Hard to disagree. With so much bad for so long it makes you look at the top. I'm starting to feel that Al Davis secretly owns the 40ers
I think that characterizing Jed as "The Prince" as if he's a brainless clown that makes horrible decisions is unfair. While I agree that the Yorks started off badly, I believe that over the last few years they have made amends and given the team everything they asked for. Everybody wants an owner that doesn't get in the way of the football, but when the football isn't going to plan they want to run the owner out. Especially here.

Was hiring Singletary a mistake? At the time he was hired, the team was playing better than it had in years under Nolan, and were favorites to win the division this year by webzoners and experts alike. Has it worked out? No, the team is a mess and hopefully some changes can be made in the next offseason to correct some things. If you take a look around the league though most teams are in similar situation as far as not living up to expectations. Other teams are doing better than expected like we did at the end of last year.

I guess my point is that no matter who the owner is, Bill Walsh is not going to walk in the door and create another miracle 2 decade long empire. With all of the parity in the league now teams take a lot longer to get REALLY good and a lot of times it doesn't work out unless you luck into a HOF QB in the 8th round. There is no way that Jed or anyone else could have predicted how this year would go. Based on what we saw last year, it appeared that things were going in the right direction. Jed can't call plays. Dr. York can't supervise the nutcracker drill and Denise cannot draw up a game plan. All they can do is write checks and put people in place to make decisions for them. There is no reason to think that they have super powers and can see the future. Is it easy to second guess their decisions now? Yes, but I don't think many other owners would have made different decisions over the last few years that would have made things much different. Singletary was a very popular choice at the time. There were questions, but it was still generaly

One point that Cohn makes is that if they had been more patient they could have had Shananhan. Who knew he would become available? I think everyone in fan world and the media were shocked by his firing, and there was no guarantee that Singletary wouldn't have been wooooed by someone else. They saw the man they wanted and locked him up.

The season has started off terribly, but Jed, (tutored by Eddie) is doing a fine job. It just has not worked out as I or anyone else had wanted. If there are more reports that they will not fire Singletary because of money or won't hire a top tier replacement because it would cost too much, then I can understand the critisism. Until then, not Jerry Jones or Dan Snyder, the Kraft family or Larry Ellison can make miracles happen or predict the future. Could things be different? Yes, but hindsight is 20/20.

I am prepared to be flamed.
Originally posted by NinerGM:
Originally posted by dj43:
You make some good points here, and bring some important history into focus. Let me emphasize a couple of points:

John York never wanted to run the team, and it showed. He didn't take the time to learn how to do it because he didn't want to be there. He happened to be married to Denise and they had a son that wanted to be involved in the business, and that was the game plan all along. Jed is young and seems to be learning well. He is a bright kid with a degree from a top notch university.

Selling the team in today's economic environment is hard. As you noted, the cash stream for the 49ers is not very good. Only the Lions and the Vikings generated less revenue than the 49ers last year. Their stadium is the worst in the league and the city of San Francisco has been a millstone around their York's neck in terms of getting a new place built. When the Dolphins were recently sold, it included a nice piece of real estate with great future value. The 49ers play in a place no one wants to live or work. No one would want to buy a franchise with those problems.

One interesting point you recalled was the fact Mike McCarthy supported the drafting of Smith over Rodgers. Then he takes second choice and turns him into one of the better QBs in the league. McCarthy's analysis of Smith and the job he subsequently did with Rodgers should reinforce the need for better offensive minds in SF and a higher value for Smith than many here hold.

Thanks dj...

I think the wholesale blaming of the Yorks is an oversimplifying the actual history of the team. It's fun to try and paint them that way and it may sell papers, but the reality is that for the most part, the Yorks have gotten out of the way and relied on who they were told were good football people were.

I challenge anyone based on the facts of what happened over time that you just can't say "it's the York's fault because they're bad owners." That is just not the complete truth.

You both make good points about John York not wanting anything to do with the team and that does tend to make a crappy owner.

Let me add another angle to your thoughts that most people don't think of;

When Eddie was forced to sell the team, J.York had to make a "Verifiable" payment or payments of 90 million dollars [I think that was the amount]. That's a hefty chunk of change for a football team he didn't want.

Everybody kept saying how "CHEAP" York was without thinking about what he was going through, but I figured it would take about 7-8 years to recoup those funds so I decided I was going to wait until after that period and then see what happened.

When we watched him eat 15 million dollars by firing both Ericson and Donahoe, I was shocked but I gave him a little bit of respect. Now we know the whole reason he didn't sell the team is because he was saving it for his son.

Right now I believe that it was Jed's doing to have Raye fired so I will wait to see if things change or if Jed makes wholesale changes to correct his mistakes before I completely call the Yorks worthless...
Originally posted by tn9er:
Originally posted by NinerGM:
Originally posted by dj43:
You make some good points here, and bring some important history into focus. Let me emphasize a couple of points:

John York never wanted to run the team, and it showed. He didn't take the time to learn how to do it because he didn't want to be there. He happened to be married to Denise and they had a son that wanted to be involved in the business, and that was the game plan all along. Jed is young and seems to be learning well. He is a bright kid with a degree from a top notch university.

Selling the team in today's economic environment is hard. As you noted, the cash stream for the 49ers is not very good. Only the Lions and the Vikings generated less revenue than the 49ers last year. Their stadium is the worst in the league and the city of San Francisco has been a millstone around their York's neck in terms of getting a new place built. When the Dolphins were recently sold, it included a nice piece of real estate with great future value. The 49ers play in a place no one wants to live or work. No one would want to buy a franchise with those problems.

One interesting point you recalled was the fact Mike McCarthy supported the drafting of Smith over Rodgers. Then he takes second choice and turns him into one of the better QBs in the league. McCarthy's analysis of Smith and the job he subsequently did with Rodgers should reinforce the need for better offensive minds in SF and a higher value for Smith than many here hold.

Thanks dj...

I think the wholesale blaming of the Yorks is an oversimplifying the actual history of the team. It's fun to try and paint them that way and it may sell papers, but the reality is that for the most part, the Yorks have gotten out of the way and relied on who they were told were good football people were.

I challenge anyone based on the facts of what happened over time that you just can't say "it's the York's fault because they're bad owners." That is just not the complete truth.

You both make good points about John York not wanting anything to do with the team and that does tend to make a crappy owner.

Let me add another angle to your thoughts that most people don't think of;

When Eddie was forced to sell the team, J.York had to make a "Verifiable" payment or payments of 90 million dollars [I think that was the amount]. That's a hefty chunk of change for a football team he didn't want.

Everybody kept saying how "CHEAP" York was without thinking about what he was going through, but I figured it would take about 7-8 years to recoup those funds so I decided I was going to wait until after that period and then see what happened.

When we watched him eat 15 million dollars by firing both Ericson and Donahoe, I was shocked but I gave him a little bit of respect. Now we know the whole reason he didn't sell the team is because he was saving it for his son.

Right now I believe that it was Jed's doing to have Raye fired so I will wait to see if things change or if Jed makes wholesale changes to correct his mistakes before I completely call the Yorks worthless...

They also ate Nolan's and Mooch's contract. It's not like owning this team has been "inexpensive".

I'm willing to bet the $90 million that was paid was out of pride for the family. They wanted to leave a legacy to their son. I think that says a lot.
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Originally posted by captnkos:
I think that characterizing Jed as "The Prince" as if he's a brainless clown that makes horrible decisions is unfair. While I agree that the Yorks started off badly, I believe that over the last few years they have made amends and given the team everything they asked for. Everybody wants an owner that doesn't get in the way of the football, but when the football isn't going to plan they want to run the owner out. Especially here.

Was hiring Singletary a mistake? At the time he was hired, the team was playing better than it had in years under Nolan, and were favorites to win the division this year by webzoners and experts alike. Has it worked out? No, the team is a mess and hopefully some changes can be made in the next offseason to correct some things. If you take a look around the league though most teams are in similar situation as far as not living up to expectations. Other teams are doing better than expected like we did at the end of last year.

I guess my point is that no matter who the owner is, Bill Walsh is not going to walk in the door and create another miracle 2 decade long empire. With all of the parity in the league now teams take a lot longer to get REALLY good and a lot of times it doesn't work out unless you luck into a HOF QB in the 8th round. There is no way that Jed or anyone else could have predicted how this year would go. Based on what we saw last year, it appeared that things were going in the right direction. Jed can't call plays. Dr. York can't supervise the nutcracker drill and Denise cannot draw up a game plan. All they can do is write checks and put people in place to make decisions for them. There is no reason to think that they have super powers and can see the future. Is it easy to second guess their decisions now? Yes, but I don't think many other owners would have made different decisions over the last few years that would have made things much different. Singletary was a very popular choice at the time. There were questions, but it was still generaly

One point that Cohn makes is that if they had been more patient they could have had Shananhan. Who knew he would become available? I think everyone in fan world and the media were shocked by his firing, and there was no guarantee that Singletary wouldn't have been wooooed by someone else. They saw the man they wanted and locked him up.

The season has started off terribly, but Jed, (tutored by Eddie) is doing a fine job. It just has not worked out as I or anyone else had wanted. If there are more reports that they will not fire Singletary because of money or won't hire a top tier replacement because it would cost too much, then I can understand the critisism. Until then, not Jerry Jones or Dan Snyder, the Kraft family or Larry Ellison can make miracles happen or predict the future. Could things be different? Yes, but hindsight is 20/20.

I am prepared to be flamed.

Jed was called a "Prince" because he inherited the crown from his father, "the King" - the notion being that Jed didn't earn it, but rather it was his birthright. It has nothing to do with Jed being a "brainless clown that makes horrible decisions", even if that is a true statement.
Originally posted by midrdan:
Originally posted by backontop:
Originally posted by area49:
Originally posted by backontop:
Originally posted by area49:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by area49:
Originally posted by SJniner7:
"The Prince finally needs to get it right. If he does, good for him. If he can't get it right, he will have to fire Singletary and get a new offensive coordinator and a new quarterback, and then start all over again from the beginning. If it comes to that, he and Dad should just sell the team."

I am confused on what exactly he means by "getting it right"? Does he mean if Johnson works out, which had nothing to do with him? Or is he suggesting that Sing would be fired and hire a legitimate coach if the Niners fall hard?

Johnson is Sing's last ditch effort, and could make or break his job. This is similar to how Smith is going to make or break our season.

I agree with the hiring of Sing, as it seemed he was just given the job following half of 2008. We should have at least waited and seen what would come available. You guys all talk like "selling" the team is the answer.

My fears would be moving the team or even selling to a worse owner than we currently have. Trust me, there are worst owners than the Yorks...

There are no owners worse than the Yorks, and moving the team would be nothing short of a blessing.


Seriously, dude, thanks. At least SOMEONE agrees with me. I really think that, if Ed Roski or Larry Ellison just moved this team to LA, it would be able to thrive and have a new identity. Everytime I suggest it here, all I get is "f**k LA".

F**K LA!!!

Wow. What a thoughtful and eloquent rebuttal.

poor suggestions get poor responses.

The problem is that the NFL is floundering in Jacksonville and Buffalo (and not doing very well in Oakland). The NFL will not be excited about allowing an owner to move the 49ers to LA when there are 2-3 teams with a deplorable fan base that are stronger candidates for relocation. The NFL rules changed after the Cleveland franchise was moved to Baltimore so a new owner could not unilaterally make that call. Plus with our without the consent of the NFL, any team moving to LA would be subject to Al Davis' territorial claims, which is one of the main reasons the NFL has not already moved a team to LA. The others being: LA is not a cure for a tepid fan base and the only venue in LA suitable for playing is the Coliseum, which the NFL views as a short term venue only. Any move to LA would thus be contingent ona pre-approved stadium deal, which might happen in Orange County, but not LA. Besides, now that it is all but a given that a stadium will be built in Santa Clara, I find it doubtful that a new owner would move to LA.

The problem is that the owners of JAX and BUF have made it explicitly clear that they don't plan on moving to LA. Jed York actually threatened to do so during the vote! Furthermore, they're not in need of new stadiums like we are.

And the rules didn't change at all. The Yorks could pack up and move to LA tomorrow if they wanted to and wouldn't need anyone's approval.

By the way, are you not aware of Ed Roski's plan to build a billion-dollar stadium there? It's already passed through all the necessary paperwork. All he needs is a tenant.
Originally posted by backontop:
Originally posted by area49:
Originally posted by backontop:
Originally posted by area49:
Originally posted by backontop:
Originally posted by area49:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by area49:
Originally posted by SJniner7:
"The Prince finally needs to get it right. If he does, good for him. If he can't get it right, he will have to fire Singletary and get a new offensive coordinator and a new quarterback, and then start all over again from the beginning. If it comes to that, he and Dad should just sell the team."

I am confused on what exactly he means by "getting it right"? Does he mean if Johnson works out, which had nothing to do with him? Or is he suggesting that Sing would be fired and hire a legitimate coach if the Niners fall hard?

Johnson is Sing's last ditch effort, and could make or break his job. This is similar to how Smith is going to make or break our season.

I agree with the hiring of Sing, as it seemed he was just given the job following half of 2008. We should have at least waited and seen what would come available. You guys all talk like "selling" the team is the answer.

My fears would be moving the team or even selling to a worse owner than we currently have. Trust me, there are worst owners than the Yorks...

There are no owners worse than the Yorks, and moving the team would be nothing short of a blessing.


Seriously, dude, thanks. At least SOMEONE agrees with me. I really think that, if Ed Roski or Larry Ellison just moved this team to LA, it would be able to thrive and have a new identity. Everytime I suggest it here, all I get is "f**k LA".

F**K LA!!!

Wow. What a thoughtful and eloquent rebuttal.

poor suggestions get poor responses.

Again, how is it a poor suggestion when I've laid out various reasons why I think it would be a good idea?

Are you really asking that??

For starters because the team isn't moving to LA. Just because you live close to LA doesn't make it a good idea to move the team down there. Second there is going to be a stadium built in Santa Clara (remember the big vote that happened??) And lastly because F**K LA!!!

No, a vote passed authorizing the construction of the stadium. They still need to get the financing done, which they won't be able to do after this season. Thus, the stadium deal will collapse, and it's bye-bye SF, hello LA.
I can't believe people here are actually defending the Yorks. What, you wouldn't rather have Larry Ellison or Ed Roski?
The problem is not that Sing knows nothing about offense.

The problem is that he knows nothing about offense and forces his opinions about offense on the team.
Originally posted by area49:
I can't believe people here are actually defending the Yorks. What, you wouldn't rather have Larry Ellison or Ed Roski?

From someone I read on another board is that Ellison is a huge micromanager and I don't want my team in LA. That'd be f**king bulls**t so Roski can go eat a dick. So yeah I'll still stick with Young York who might be a dumbass so far but atleast he wants to win and he consults Eddie D for advice sometimes and the team will still be in the bay area.
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Originally posted by BrianGO:
The problem is not that Sing knows nothing about offense.

The problem is that he knows nothing about offense and forces his opinions about offense on the team.

that is a pretty insightful comment actually.
Something i forgot to mention in my wild azz guess as to how the JR firing went down....i laid out a plausible scenario, with jed telling BM that he either fired JR or he, BM was fired too. So bm saved his own skin...most would have that are current coaches. Further, I posited that if BM loses another KC stinker, he is fired, and 3rd if he loses two more prior to break he is fired. What didn't ring clear to me was why now, and not as was done previously with noln, was the firing was after game three instead of midseason and BM makes his entrance. At the mention of uncle eddie, it makes sense. He knows that to keep JR around 5 more games before schidt canning him made no sense and probably made that clear to jed. I still believe he suggested to can BM with another KC type loss or a another 2 loses before midseason. That sounds plausible and would avoid keeping BM if he continues to lay smelly big eggs...er bms.