Situational Football - Niner coaches ain't got it!

Originally posted by danimal:

Originally posted by valrod33:

Originally posted by danimal:

Originally posted by redrathman:

Originally posted by danimal:
And people are forgetting we still had 1 problem with it on Monday night. So in my book, it is still not solved. 1 season, 2 games and counting where this staff is obviously missing some procedural element that all other professional staffs seem to have.

I don't recall any instances in which the play was late to the huddle and forced Smith to call a timeout or take a penalty.

yeah I think it happened once. If I recall correctly, Alex did not get to the line until about 10 secs left, and then they tried a personnel change...Vernon was running in from the side and obviously that was not enough time. I am pretty sure they took the penalty

I think Sing said that we only had 10 players in the huddle because Vernons chin strap was broken but the coaching staff wasnt made aware of Vernons equipment issues so they didnt send another player to take his spot, then once vernon got it fixed he tried to make back onto the field

ah good to know. I put that on Vernon then, he should have called to get himself replaced.

So Alex must have received the play but was waiting for his 11th to show.

thats the way i understood it

Quote:
I think Sing said that we only had 10 players in the huddle because Vernons chin strap was broken but the coaching staff wasnt made aware of Vernons equipment issues so they didnt send another player to take his spot, then once vernon got it fixed he tried to make back onto the field

If there's an equipment failure, you put a backup TE in. Seriously, was this actually used as an excuse by Singletary?

The coaches shouldn't have to be "made aware" of anything. Are they in charge at all?

No, this is Singletary passing the buck back to the players again.

Originally posted by kray28:

Originally posted by Leathaface:
This is dumb b/c it's based on revisionist history of the event. You score however you can in that situation and deal with everything else after the fact.

Nothing dumb about being confident in scoring, but also knowing that you're going to have to bleed enough time off the clock to prevent the Saints offense from ever getting on the field in regulation, no matter what.

So you make some assumptions:

1. We're going to score even if it takes 4 downs on every down reset.

2. If we get a first down we'll keep the clock running by staying inbounds until the clock is bled to about 1:00 left in regulation.

3. Then you start working the sidelines, running OOB, and spiking the ball if you have to.

Our players have been in too few of these types of situations to know better and our coaches aren't smart enough to know these relatively simple mechanics of game and clock management to teach them.

Ultimately, I want Smith to make the leap that the coaches are simply too dumb to make themselves. He's a bright and very intelligent guy....he needs to assert his will and his leadership and take command of the offense. Smith needs to study Peyton Manning....the guy's a friggin maestro, Smith can learn a ton from how he manages the game.

I am highly critical of Smith and Singletary, but this is venturing into the absurd. So you want the Niners to have less options to move the ball? They had no time outs. That is the big problem. If you have your timeouts, then you can start thinking about the fact that you are in a first and goal situation and you have 4 plays left. You can then run the clock down a bit and still have all your plays and options, and the D still has to respect the middle of the field. You do not have to waste downs with a spike. Criticize the wasted time outs, but your fantasy scenario has a lot of holes in it when you have no timeouts.

Originally posted by BubbaParisMVP:

Originally posted by 49ersMyLife:
That is really stupid. We were down by 8, not 7. So, if we had scored a TD with no time or little time left on the clock and we failed to get 2pt. conversion, then game was over.

We scored quickly...so if we don't convert for 2pts...we can onside kick it and have time to get in the FG range.

Whoever wrote this article isn't very bright.

That's exactly right. With a young, inexperienced offense your primary problem is tying the game, not tying the game at an opportune time. Especially when you have a 2pt conversion waiting to greet you in the endzone. It's better to keep the defense on its heels and sucking wind in that circumstance. Again, tying the game is your paramont goal, everything else is gravy.
...

Very well stated. It's not like the 49ers were trailing only 7 pts. The Lombardi's comment was the worst case of Monday (actually Tuesday) quarterbacking.

Originally posted by kray28:

Quote:
I think Sing said that we only had 10 players in the huddle because Vernons chin strap was broken but the coaching staff wasnt made aware of Vernons equipment issues so they didnt send another player to take his spot, then once vernon got it fixed he tried to make back onto the field

If there's an equipment failure, you put a backup TE in. Seriously, was this actually used as an excuse by Singletary?

The coaches shouldn't have to be "made aware" of anything. Are they in charge at all?

No, this is Singletary passing the buck back to the players again.

The coaches should be made aware if a player cant go in for whatever reason, that way they can send in a backup player

If you get a first down....which they got on their very first play of the drive....you have four downs minimum to work with. The clock was never their enemy once they got that first down.

You could bleed the clock down by 40 seconds on any down. Then start conserving clock. If you have no timeouts, you spike the ball.

Why do you people not understand this basic frakking point?

Do you understand the game of football at all? Do you understand how the clock works?

This is hilarious. Where are all the knowledgeable fans of years past? I'll just say that some of these new fans on NinerTalk crack me up.

Originally posted by danimal:

Originally posted by redrathman:

Originally posted by danimal:
And people are forgetting we still had 1 problem with it on Monday night. So in my book, it is still not solved. 1 season, 2 games and counting where this staff is obviously missing some procedural element that all other professional staffs seem to have.

I don't recall any instances in which the play was late to the huddle and forced Smith to call a timeout or take a penalty.

yeah I think it happened once. If I recall correctly, Alex did not get to the line until about 10 secs left, and then they tried a personnel change...Vernon was running in from the side and obviously that was not enough time. I am pretty sure they took the penalty

This was a result of Vernon Davis' helmet strap breaking. Singletary mentioned it in his Tuesday presser. The onus falls on Davis to get to the huddle (or sub himself out).

[ Edited by redrathman on Sep 22, 2010 at 09:10:19 ]

Originally posted by valrod33:

Originally posted by kray28:

Quote:
I think Sing said that we only had 10 players in the huddle because Vernons chin strap was broken but the coaching staff wasnt made aware of Vernons equipment issues so they didnt send another player to take his spot, then once vernon got it fixed he tried to make back onto the field

If there's an equipment failure, you put a backup TE in. Seriously, was this actually used as an excuse by Singletary?

The coaches shouldn't have to be "made aware" of anything. Are they in charge at all?

No, this is Singletary passing the buck back to the players again.

The coaches should be made aware if a player cant go in for whatever reason, that way they can send in a backup player

The coaches admitting to the lack of awareness is the basic statement of a failure to do their jobs.

Singletary's a "no excuse" kind of guy, right? I'm a "no excuse" kind of fan. Why's Singletary making excuses? He's basically blaming the player(s) for not telling the coaches that a player had a broken chinstrap.

My high school team was a freaking well-oiled machine compared to this joke.

We had equipment failures all the time....the coaches were on top of it, every player's backup was near the coach on the sideline and the coaches were heavily monitoring who was in the huddle and who wasn't.

[ Edited by kray28 on Sep 22, 2010 at 09:14:03 ]

Originally posted by kray28:
If you get a first down....which they got on their very first play of the drive....you have four downs minimum to work with. The clock was never their enemy once they got that first down.

You could bleed the clock down by 40 seconds on any down. Then start conserving clock. If you have no timeouts, you spike the ball.

Why do you people not understand this basic frakking point?

Do you understand the game of football at all? Do you understand how the clock works?

This is hilarious. Where are all the knowledgeable fans of years past? I'll just say that some of these new fans on NinerTalk crack me up.

I hate to break it to you, but if you spike the ball you lose the down.

Also, you want to have options to throw or run in the middle of the field. If you are tackled inbounds and have not time outs, even spiking the ball you lose a lot of time. I am guessing that you drove out all the knowledgeable fans with your weird rants.

Originally posted by kray28:

Originally posted by valrod33:

Originally posted by kray28:

Quote:
I think Sing said that we only had 10 players in the huddle because Vernons chin strap was broken but the coaching staff wasnt made aware of Vernons equipment issues so they didnt send another player to take his spot, then once vernon got it fixed he tried to make back onto the field

If there's an equipment failure, you put a backup TE in. Seriously, was this actually used as an excuse by Singletary?

The coaches shouldn't have to be "made aware" of anything. Are they in charge at all?

No, this is Singletary passing the buck back to the players again.

The coaches should be made aware if a player cant go in for whatever reason, that way they can send in a backup player

The coaches admitting to the lack of awareness is the basic statement of a failure to do their jobs.

Singletary's a "no excuse" kind of guy, right? I'm a "no excuse" kind of fan. Why's Singletary making excuses? He's basically blaming the player(s) for not telling the coaches that a player had a broken chinstrap.

My high school team was a freaking well-oiled machine compared to this joke.

We had equipment failures all the time....the coaches were on top of it, every player's backup was near the coach on the sideline and the coaches were heavily monitoring who was in the huddle and who wasn't.

Thank you for not letting Simpletary off the hook for this. This is fundamental coaching, not rocket science. Injuries, equipment failures, etc. happen all the time. The sub has to be ready to go any minute. Where was the backup? Did he not see Davis having trouble? The receivers coach? Sideline lackeys? There is no plan unless something happens. Simpletary is reactionary-- sure, they will address this problem, but it never should have been a problem in the first place. Just like the play calling issues. This is why I have little faith that Sing is the guy for the job.

Another case of people finding something, anything to complain about. NT is ridiculous.

Originally posted by 49ersMyLife:
That is really stupid. We were down by 8, not 7. So, if we had scored a TD with no time or little time left on the clock and we failed to get 2pt. conversion, then game was over.

We scored quickly...so if we don't convert for 2pts...we can onside kick it and have time to get in the FG range.

Whoever wrote this article isn't very bright.

this. end of thread.

Mike Lombardi was a personnel guy.

Why is anyone taking this article seriously?

Originally posted by redrathman:
Mike Lombardi was a personnel guy.

Why is anyone taking this article seriously?

Not only that, but he's a classic Niner hater and still holds a grudge against the organization.

He's also a first class hypocrite. Example: Later in the same article, he talks about how a coach must play the percentages. Yet, he fails to mention that the league average for 2 point conversions is 40%. So, if Singletary is playing the percentages, as Lombardi suggests, than he has to assume that it's unlikely they will convert the 2 point try. Therefore, the correct thing to do in this situation is to leave time on the clock for an onside kick.

Hard to believe people don't get this.

Listen I understand what kray28 is saying. If we use more of the clock that's less time for brees. With that said we had to score. We decided to punch it in and put the game in the hands of our defense which is the strength if the team.
As for the chinstraps....that is not the job of sing. He has enough to worry about not a chinstrap. If you are going to blame anyone How about the equipment crew who took that long to replace something so simple or the tight ends coach who is only in charge of the tight ends and should have sent in someone else.