The Scot McLoughan legacy with the niners... what is it?

Originally posted by wailers15:

Originally posted by 9erfanAUS:

Originally posted by fister30:
Scotty M was better than average. SF was lucky to have his services because the players he brought here are the main reason the niners will probably make the playoffs this year. The niners were really bad before he got to SF.

I'm not even sure that you can separate the legacy of Nolan and McCloughan. They both have their stamp all over this team.

I actually think that Nolan would have made quite a good GM. But I reckon that McCloughan is really nothing more than average.

-9fA

LOL Nolan would have run this team into the dirt and beyond. It wa Nolan who wanted Alex Smith, Jonas Jenninngs, Scot wanted Devin Hester Nolan did not. Nolan soes not have GM instincts after choosing Alex Smith because he is so smart. WTF? Another Classic Scot was hgih on Lofa Tatupu since he was scouting him big the last year as Director of College Scouting for the Seattle Seahawks Nolan -Nope.??? LOL by the way after Nolan FKD up the 2nd round with Baas Scot wanted to trade up for Vincent Jackson. NEver happened. However we did trade up for synder in the 3rd instead??


I wouldn't say he's nothing more than avg. he's above avg compared to the rest of the league. the majority of starters on this team were drafted by him

Um, I'm gonna need sources for this information regarding Devin Hester & Vincent Jackson.

Originally posted by NickSh49:

Originally posted by wailers15:

Originally posted by 9erfanAUS:

Originally posted by fister30:
Scotty M was better than average. SF was lucky to have his services because the players he brought here are the main reason the niners will probably make the playoffs this year. The niners were really bad before he got to SF.

I'm not even sure that you can separate the legacy of Nolan and McCloughan. They both have their stamp all over this team.

I actually think that Nolan would have made quite a good GM. But I reckon that McCloughan is really nothing more than average.

-9fA

LOL Nolan would have run this team into the dirt and beyond. It wa Nolan who wanted Alex Smith, Jonas Jenninngs, Scot wanted Devin Hester Nolan did not. Nolan soes not have GM instincts after choosing Alex Smith because he is so smart. WTF? Another Classic Scot was hgih on Lofa Tatupu since he was scouting him big the last year as Director of College Scouting for the Seattle Seahawks Nolan -Nope.??? LOL by the way after Nolan FKD up the 2nd round with Baas Scot wanted to trade up for Vincent Jackson. NEver happened. However we did trade up for synder in the 3rd instead??


I wouldn't say he's nothing more than avg. he's above avg compared to the rest of the league. the majority of starters on this team were drafted by him

Um, I'm gonna need sources for this information regarding Devin Hester & Vincent Jackson.

this dude is pullin s**t out of his ass. its been very well documented that scotty wanted smith, not nolan. i dont think scotty wouldve wanted a guy like hester either, scotty was all about size and durability and hester doesnt fit that description. id like to see some linkage too

I think Scot was a good GM. Sure he's had his misses, but so does every GM.

Though he'll continue get a bad rap around here because we don't have All-Pros at every position like every other NFL team does, and because he like every other coach & GM that we have will always be compared to Bill Walsh.

Which of course is totally reasonable.

Honestly I believe that Alex would be a better player if it weren't for the coaching carousel, which Scot had nothing to do with. Even when we were making coordinators some of the highest paid at their position, they were still leaving (Norv).

And back in 2005 there was no consensus number one. Had we taken DeSean Jackson #1 overall despite a GLARING need at QB, this board would've went nuts (and not in a good way). And spare me the crap about the O-Line.

When Jonas Jennings and Larry Allen got gore to 1600+ yards that year, everyone was lauding the moves, and was happy to have a GM that "gets it."

Now (in hindsight) it was stupid.

Fact is, this team was in shambles when Scot came aboard. And whether you like to admit or not, he made us at least respectable. I'd even go as far to say that even before this year's draft we were poised for a playoff run this season.

On his watch he drafted/signed names like Goldson, Vernon Davis, Willis, Clements, Spikes, Justin Smith, Aubrayo Franklin, D. Walker, and Michael Crabtree.

ALL of which would START on ANY team in this league.

So yea Scot.....real terrible job you did.

Drafting Willis, that's about it.

Mediocrity, I give him a C-.

Originally posted by Shaj:

Originally posted by susweel:
Alex Smith is his legacy and passing on Deshawn Jackson.

His biggest fails:

1) Alex Smith
2) Jonas Jennings
3) Nate Clements, for THAT price tag (otherwise a solid pickup)


His biggest hits:

1) Willis
2) Gore
3) Davis

I didn't give him credit for Crabtree because I think that was just lucky that he fell that far. Even I would have gotten that draft pick right.

Not to mention Goldson, Justin Smith, Larry Allen, Aubrayo Franklin (in conjunction with Nolan)... Whether or not you want to believe it, McCloughan was one of the brightest football minds in the game and we are NOT better off without him.

I find it funny how people continually called for his job without being able to name a replacement with half the football intuition and / or ability to scout talent.

From a personell standpoint, we improved from where we were in 2005 every year while putting ourselves in excellent position regarding the salary cap - can you ask of anything more from a GM?

I think not.

Originally posted by Winners:

Originally posted by TIM_:
I liked McCloughan. But his best attribute may have been that he was NOT Nolan.
McCloughan was only GM less than 2 years,before that Nolan was the GM. McCloughan did some good things and some questionable things. I don't see ANY drop off with Baalke and actually think he might have a spark that McCloughan lacked.
Baalke and Marathe and Sing,working under Jed ,seems ideal to me. jmho

To be fair, the only draft we've seen from Balkee was 95 percent finished by McCloughan.

And none of those drafted has played one f**king snap in the nfl

To be honest, I don't see how you can see anything, but failure. Sure he helped with drafting and promoting Willis, our champion, but he will be remembered for how he left the organization, not what he did as GM.

You get ousted just before our most important NFL draft in 10 years?

Players who were great at one position in college, but were drafted to play a different position for the 49ers.

I think he can be a serviceable middle linebacker. A backup at the TED behind Takeo Spikes. Nothing more than that. Had a decent rookie year.

I posted this the beginning of November 2009. Thought I would repost since we are all considering the argument of how well McCloughlin did as GM

I see through out the zone a lot of individuals complaining about McCloughlan and since I was bored I thought I would break down the late great Bill Walsh draft record and Seifert first draft. In Walsh day the NFL had 12 rounds unlike today with 7 rounds.

1979
11 Picks
6 cut
Walsh first pick as 49er coach James Owen, WR, played 2 years and cut, bust
3rd Pick Joe Montana HOF
10th Pick Dwight Clark today would be an FA pick up
3 other picksTom Seaborn, Phil Francis, cut after 1 and 2 years

1980
11 Picks
4 cut
1st round Earl Cooper did not meet first round expectation moved to TE from RB
1st round Jim Stucky DE in 6 season had 7.5 sacks did not meet expectations
2nd round Keena Turner very good LB played 10 years
Puki, Churchman, Hoge lasted 2 seasons and cut

1981
11 Picks
3 cut
1st Round Ronnie Lott HOF
John Harty, Eric Wright, Carlton Williamson all went on to have good careers Wright played 9 years made the pro bowl

1982
9 picks
3 cut
1st round pick William “Bubba” Paris LT also known as "Highway 77" (fastest way to the QB was through Paris) by fans played 8 years . IMO a bust others would disagree. Ron Ferrari and Dana McLemore played 5 seasons of journeyman football
Newton Williams and Vince Williams are 2nd and 3rd picks in 82 lasted 3 games and 6 games

1983
8 picks
3 cuts
2nd round and 1st pick Roger Craig
3rd round 2nd pick Blanchard Montgomery 2 years and cut
Tom Holmoe and Riki Ellison played 6 years Ellison was a good LB, Jesse Sapolu

1984
9 picks
3 cut
1st round Todd Shell, LB 4 season only played 21 games out of possible 64, bust
2nd -5th round John Frank, Guy McIntyre, Michael Carter, Jeff Fuller all had very good careers with the 49ers Carter made the pro bowl several times, Fuller until his injury was becoming a pro bowl safety McIntyre played 12 seasons on the OL.

1985
6 picks
4 cut
1st round Jerry Rice HOF
5th round Bruce Collie T 5 years journeyman player

1986 – Many consider this draft one of the greatest in NFL history
14 picks
5 cut
1st pick 2nd round Larry Roberts played 8 seasons however missed an avg 8 games per season, bust
Round 3-6, Tom Rathman , John Taylor, Tim McKyer, Charles Haley, Steve Wallace, Kevin F*gan, and Don Griffin. Every one made the pro bowl minimum once if not multiple times. McKyer and Griffin are two of the most under rated cover corners of all time because they didn’t trash talk or try to bring attention to themselves they just played.

1987
10 picks
8 cut
1st round Terrence Flagler played 3 seasons total of 21 games, bust
1st round Harris Barton an anchor on the OL for 9 years made several pro bowls

1988 – Walsh last draft
10 picks
5 cut
1st pick 2nd round Daniel Stubbs played 2 years, cut, bust
Pierce Holt, Bill Romanowski played 5 & 6 years for the niners were avg to good players
Chet Brooks played 3 years and cut

1989 Siefert first draft
11 picks
5 cut
1st round pick Keith DeLong did not meet 1st round expectations played 5 years
2nd round Wesley Walls TE, sat on bench behind Jones for 4 years went on to pro bowl career with NO and Carolina
MiKe Barber, Keith Henderson, and Steve Hendrickson lasted from 3 years to just 8 games then cut

I went through this exercise to see how Walsh and Seifert (in his first draft) did. Walsh was a master at moving around in the draft. He salvaged the 79 draft by getting Montana, his 81, 84 & 86 drafts were very good to incredible and in 85 he got Rice. His 80, 82, 83 (Craig the exception), 87, 88 drafts sucked. When it came to his first pick in each draft 6 of his 10 picks were either a complete bust or did not meet 1st round expectation 2 picks Jerry Rice and Ronnie Lott met 1st round expectation. Roger Craig should be HOF and Paris doing an avg job at best even though I consider him a bust did not include him as one of my 6 bust.

Seifert and Mooch did not do very well with their 1st picks as well From ’89-99 they combined for 6 1st round/pick bust with such notables as Reggie McGrew, Jim Drunkenmiller, J.J. Stokes, Israel Ifeanyi, Todd Kelly and Dexter Carter. They cut Ted Washington after 3 season who went on to become a 5 time pro bowl NT. Also let McQuarters go after 3 who has played 9 years in the NFL so far. There 1st round selections of Stubblefield, Young, and Watters did meet 1st round expectations. Many think Watters should be considered for the HOF.

Over all McCloughlan has picked probably 1 future HOF so far in Patrick Willis, Vernon Davis is beginning to meet 1st round expectation. I will wait 3-4 more years on Crabtree, however for only playing 3 games his upside is HUGE. Players such as Gore, Brown, Lewis, Staley, and Walker, (I know I am missing several players) are doing well. Over all with only getting 7 picks vs. 12 picks like Walsh had I cannot complain about McCloughlan and the personnel he has selected. If I had one complaint he has done a poor job of selecting OL.

Conclusion even Bill Walsh who did a great job through the draft was not even right 50% of the time with his 1st pick. Most of the time half the players drafted got cut and the majority were avg., journeyman players who lasted around 5 years before moving on or being cut. IMO we need to give McCloughlan a break and actually consider the fact he has done an ok job.

Originally posted by abowers1984:

Originally posted by Shaj:

Originally posted by susweel:
Alex Smith is his legacy and passing on Deshawn Jackson.

His biggest fails:

1) Alex Smith
2) Jonas Jennings
3) Nate Clements, for THAT price tag (otherwise a solid pickup)


His biggest hits:

1) Willis
2) Gore
3) Davis

I didn't give him credit for Crabtree because I think that was just lucky that he fell that far. Even I would have gotten that draft pick right.

Not to mention Goldson, Justin Smith, Larry Allen, Aubrayo Franklin (in conjunction with Nolan)... Whether or not you want to believe it, McCloughan was one of the brightest football minds in the game and we are NOT better off without him.

I find it funny how people continually called for his job without being able to name a replacement with half the football intuition and / or ability to scout talent.

From a personell standpoint, we improved from where we were in 2005 every year while putting ourselves in excellent position regarding the salary cap - can you ask of anything more from a GM?

I think not.

Originally posted by maximill15:

Originally posted by abowers1984:

Originally posted by Shaj:

Originally posted by susweel:
Alex Smith is his legacy and passing on Deshawn Jackson.

His biggest fails:

1) Alex Smith
2) Jonas Jennings
3) Nate Clements, for THAT price tag (otherwise a solid pickup)


His biggest hits:

1) Willis
2) Gore
3) Davis

I didn't give him credit for Crabtree because I think that was just lucky that he fell that far. Even I would have gotten that draft pick right.

Not to mention Goldson, Justin Smith, Larry Allen, Aubrayo Franklin (in conjunction with Nolan)... Whether or not you want to believe it, McCloughan was one of the brightest football minds in the game and we are NOT better off without him.

I find it funny how people continually called for his job without being able to name a replacement with half the football intuition and / or ability to scout talent.

From a personell standpoint, we improved from where we were in 2005 every year while putting ourselves in excellent position regarding the salary cap - can you ask of anything more from a GM?

I think not.

exactly, so his legacy is of rebuilding a fallen franchise and leaving it on the cusp of another dynasty.

Originally posted by SanFranAddic:
Players who were great at one position in college, but were drafted to play a different position for the 49ers.

That was mostly Nolan trying to prove he was a genius.

Patrick Willis. I think I remember reading that Nolan didn't want willis but Scott made such a great pitch for him in the war room on draft day that he changed Mike's mind.