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Forget About the Secondary - NT Is Now a HUGE Concern for 2010

  • bret
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 1,133
I don't understand why everyone is so worried. RJF was supposedly 3rd round talent (and how many nose tackles are drafted HIGHER than the 3rd round?) who fell to the 7th due to some off-field issues. Franklin is not going to hold out all year and risk losing his big pay-day next year; but by him being out now RJF is getting valuable reps.

Maybe he'll be the guy we use next year when Franklin walks. Remember, until this year most of the board were convinced Franklin wasn't the answer either because he wasn't a "fatty". Then Patrick Willis starts saying publicly that he's the best NT in the league and everyone's on his nuts!

This club has made pretty good personnel decisions over the last few years; so at this point I see no reason not to trust that they'll have a good plan in place for moving forward. And getting RJF those reps is surely part of that plan!
  • Kolohe
  • Hall of Fame
  • Posts: 30,892
Originally posted by bret:
I don't understand why everyone is so worried. RJF was supposedly 3rd round talent (and how many nose tackles are drafted HIGHER than the 3rd round?) who fell to the 7th due to some off-field issues. Franklin is not going to hold out all year and risk losing his big pay-day next year; but by him being out now RJF is getting valuable reps.

Maybe he'll be the guy we use next year when Franklin walks. Remember, until this year most of the board were convinced Franklin wasn't the answer either because he wasn't a "fatty". Then Patrick Willis starts saying publicly that he's the best NT in the league and everyone's on his nuts!

This club has made pretty good personnel decisions over the last few years; so at this point I see no reason not to trust that they'll have a good plan in place for moving forward. And getting RJF those reps is surely part of that plan!

Sure RJF's talent was ranked higher, but it remains to be seen if he can truly play NT. And it actually took a few years till Justin Smith said that Franklin was the best NT in the league, which I think otherwise, cause Smith hasn't played with Wilfork or Casey Hampton.
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by bret:
I don't understand why everyone is so worried. RJF was supposedly 3rd round talent (and how many nose tackles are drafted HIGHER than the 3rd round?) who fell to the 7th due to some off-field issues. Franklin is not going to hold out all year and risk losing his big pay-day next year; but by him being out now RJF is getting valuable reps.

Maybe he'll be the guy we use next year when Franklin walks. Remember, until this year most of the board were convinced Franklin wasn't the answer either because he wasn't a "fatty". Then Patrick Willis starts saying publicly that he's the best NT in the league and everyone's on his nuts!

This club has made pretty good personnel decisions over the last few years; so at this point I see no reason not to trust that they'll have a good plan in place for moving forward. And getting RJF those reps is surely part of that plan!

Sure RJF's talent was ranked higher, but it remains to be seen if he can truly play NT. And it actually took a few years till Justin Smith said that Franklin was the best NT in the league, which I think otherwise, cause Smith hasn't played with Wilfork or Casey Hampton.

RJF is just an insurance policy for this year, and he's the "worst case scenario" going forward, which is definitely not a bad thing from the sounds of it. Unless Franklin is otherworldly this year and the Niners are essentially forced to resign him, he will walk and RJF will be the interim starter until they sign a FA or draft a NT high in the 2011 draft. So we get Franklin for one year, and he gets one year to make himself ALOT of money so its a win-win right now.

2011 season's a long way away!
The only loss I see in Franklin not showing up on time is that we won't have Davis and, especially, Iupati going against a proven NT for the first few weeks. Still, this might be beneficial. It would give the rookies a chance to acclimate themselves before they go against the heavy wood.
Originally posted by bret:
I don't understand why everyone is so worried. RJF was supposedly 3rd round talent (and how many nose tackles are drafted HIGHER than the 3rd round?) who fell to the 7th due to some off-field issues. Franklin is not going to hold out all year and risk losing his big pay-day next year; but by him being out now RJF is getting valuable reps.

Maybe he'll be the guy we use next year when Franklin walks. Remember, until this year most of the board were convinced Franklin wasn't the answer either because he wasn't a "fatty". Then Patrick Willis starts saying publicly that he's the best NT in the league and everyone's on his nuts!

This club has made pretty good personnel decisions over the last few years; so at this point I see no reason not to trust that they'll have a good plan in place for moving forward. And getting RJF those reps is surely part of that plan!

RJF will never be a legit starting NT in this league. If he starts at that position teams will gash SF right up the middle, more linemen will get to Willis and Spikes, and the teams run defense will take a serious dive.

Vince Wilfork 6-2 325lbs
Casey Hampton 6-1 325lbs
Haloti Ngata 6-4 340lbs
Shaun Rogers 6-4 350lbs
B.J. Raji 6-2 337lbs
Kris Jenkins 6-4 360lbs

Ricky Jean Francois 6-3 295lbs

See a big difference there? Also this isn't a position that you can just plug someone in and expect them to succeed. Vince Wilfork went through about a year and a half of growing pains as a starter before really knowing how to play the position. The 49ers are setting themselves up for failure if this is their plan B.
Originally posted by Druckenmiller14:
Originally posted by bret:
I don't understand why everyone is so worried. RJF was supposedly 3rd round talent (and how many nose tackles are drafted HIGHER than the 3rd round?) who fell to the 7th due to some off-field issues. Franklin is not going to hold out all year and risk losing his big pay-day next year; but by him being out now RJF is getting valuable reps.

Maybe he'll be the guy we use next year when Franklin walks. Remember, until this year most of the board were convinced Franklin wasn't the answer either because he wasn't a "fatty". Then Patrick Willis starts saying publicly that he's the best NT in the league and everyone's on his nuts!

This club has made pretty good personnel decisions over the last few years; so at this point I see no reason not to trust that they'll have a good plan in place for moving forward. And getting RJF those reps is surely part of that plan!

RJF will never be a legit starting NT in this league. If he starts at that position teams will gash SF right up the middle, more linemen will get to Willis and Spikes, and the teams run defense will take a serious dive.

Vince Wilfork 6-2 325lbs
Casey Hampton 6-1 325lbs
Haloti Ngata 6-4 340lbs
Shaun Rogers 6-4 350lbs
B.J. Raji 6-2 337lbs
Kris Jenkins 6-4 360lbs

Ricky Jean Francois 6-3 295lbs

See a big difference there? Also this isn't a position that you can just plug someone in and expect them to succeed. Vince Wilfork went through about a year and a half of growing pains as a starter before really knowing how to play the position. The 49ers are setting themselves up for failure if this is their plan B.

I hope you know Franklin isn't a two gap NT like any of those guys you listed. The Niners are running a One gap NT scheme like Dallas is using with Jay Ratliff.

RJF would be fine asking to One gap.
Originally posted by Hopper:
Originally posted by Druckenmiller14:
Originally posted by bret:
I don't understand why everyone is so worried. RJF was supposedly 3rd round talent (and how many nose tackles are drafted HIGHER than the 3rd round?) who fell to the 7th due to some off-field issues. Franklin is not going to hold out all year and risk losing his big pay-day next year; but by him being out now RJF is getting valuable reps.

Maybe he'll be the guy we use next year when Franklin walks. Remember, until this year most of the board were convinced Franklin wasn't the answer either because he wasn't a "fatty". Then Patrick Willis starts saying publicly that he's the best NT in the league and everyone's on his nuts!

This club has made pretty good personnel decisions over the last few years; so at this point I see no reason not to trust that they'll have a good plan in place for moving forward. And getting RJF those reps is surely part of that plan!

RJF will never be a legit starting NT in this league. If he starts at that position teams will gash SF right up the middle, more linemen will get to Willis and Spikes, and the teams run defense will take a serious dive.

Vince Wilfork 6-2 325lbs
Casey Hampton 6-1 325lbs
Haloti Ngata 6-4 340lbs
Shaun Rogers 6-4 350lbs
B.J. Raji 6-2 337lbs
Kris Jenkins 6-4 360lbs

Ricky Jean Francois 6-3 295lbs

See a big difference there? Also this isn't a position that you can just plug someone in and expect them to succeed. Vince Wilfork went through about a year and a half of growing pains as a starter before really knowing how to play the position. The 49ers are setting themselves up for failure if this is their plan B.

I hope you know Franklin isn't a two gap NT like any of those guys you listed. The Niners are running a One gap NT scheme like Dallas is using with Jay Ratliff.

RJF would be fine asking to One gap.

Nice comeback, Hopper........and accurate, too. Amazing how little some people pay attention to the details.....................and not to mention, it has only been one day.

[ Edited by m_brockalexander on Aug 1, 2010 at 13:15:06 ]
Manusky says he's up to 310-315 right now

http://www.ninersnation.com/2010/6/12/1513162/ricky-jean-francois-chance-to

That's what Franklin plays at
Originally posted by Hopper:
Originally posted by Druckenmiller14:
Originally posted by bret:
I don't understand why everyone is so worried. RJF was supposedly 3rd round talent (and how many nose tackles are drafted HIGHER than the 3rd round?) who fell to the 7th due to some off-field issues. Franklin is not going to hold out all year and risk losing his big pay-day next year; but by him being out now RJF is getting valuable reps.

Maybe he'll be the guy we use next year when Franklin walks. Remember, until this year most of the board were convinced Franklin wasn't the answer either because he wasn't a "fatty". Then Patrick Willis starts saying publicly that he's the best NT in the league and everyone's on his nuts!

This club has made pretty good personnel decisions over the last few years; so at this point I see no reason not to trust that they'll have a good plan in place for moving forward. And getting RJF those reps is surely part of that plan!

RJF will never be a legit starting NT in this league. If he starts at that position teams will gash SF right up the middle, more linemen will get to Willis and Spikes, and the teams run defense will take a serious dive.

Vince Wilfork 6-2 325lbs
Casey Hampton 6-1 325lbs
Haloti Ngata 6-4 340lbs
Shaun Rogers 6-4 350lbs
B.J. Raji 6-2 337lbs
Kris Jenkins 6-4 360lbs

Ricky Jean Francois 6-3 295lbs

See a big difference there? Also this isn't a position that you can just plug someone in and expect them to succeed. Vince Wilfork went through about a year and a half of growing pains as a starter before really knowing how to play the position. The 49ers are setting themselves up for failure if this is their plan B.

I hope you know Franklin isn't a two gap NT like any of those guys you listed. The Niners are running a One gap NT scheme like Dallas is using with Jay Ratliff.

RJF would be fine asking to One gap.

Hopper pwned the Noob hehe
he'll sign, do u think a career backup until he got to SF would turn down 7 mil for one year? i wouldnt bet on it, and itll be a contract year again so ill bet he plays his ass off like last year. if not, RJF will be just fine, this defense is good enough to overcome the loss of one player, i think theyre better than that.
I'm sorry but it's very hard to convince me someone who's never started an NFL game is going to come in and play at the same level of someone who's taken nearly every snap for 2 seasons. I know many of you would like to believe that RJF "will be fine" but if that were the case, we wouldn't have franchised Franklin, and other teams wouldn't have franchised their NT or extended them.

It's funny but I can get into endless thread discussions about how we need a #1 WR talent prior to drafting Crabtree, but somehow we don't need #1 NT talent to make a 3-4 defense work. It's not just about weight, it's about experience. Remember what Snyder said last season about working hard and being able to "do the job" he was "competing against" Marvel Smith?

Don't believe the hype. You don't suddenly get a Rolls by ripping off the Honda logo and placing the RR on the front. This is holdout. He has leverage because frankly the 49ers know they need him more than he needs to practice. He's not under contract but it's not about his market value to someone else because we have no legit starter. His holdout is based on his value to the 49ers.

This, IMHO, is the first big gaffe of the Baalke era. You need someone at minimum who can come in and play without their being such a huge drop in experience and productivity. Talk about depth ... we needed it more only second, IMHO to OL this off season.

We'll pay steeply for this one.
  • Kolohe
  • Hall of Fame
  • Posts: 30,892
Originally posted by NinerGM:
I'm sorry but it's very hard to convince me someone who's never started an NFL game is going to come in and play at the same level of someone who's taken nearly every snap for 2 seasons. I know many of you would like to believe that RJF "will be fine" but if that were the case, we wouldn't have franchised Franklin, and other teams wouldn't have franchised their NT or extended them.

It's funny but I can get into endless thread discussions about how we need a #1 WR talent prior to drafting Crabtree, but somehow we don't need #1 NT talent to make a 3-4 defense work. It's not just about weight, it's about experience. Remember what Snyder said last season about working hard and being able to "do the job" he was "competing against" Marvel Smith?

Don't believe the hype. You don't suddenly get a Rolls by ripping off the Honda logo and placing the RR on the front. This is holdout. He has leverage because frankly the 49ers know they need him more than he needs to practice. He's not under contract but it's not about his market value to someone else because we have no legit starter. His holdout is based on his value to the 49ers.

This, IMHO, is the first big gaffe of the Baalke era. You need someone at minimum who can come in and play without their being such a huge drop in experience and productivity. Talk about depth ... we needed it more only second, IMHO to OL this off season.

We'll pay steeply for this one.

Couldn't agree more with your post and the writing in bold, NinerGM. And I believe this is where signing a veteran like Ian Scott to come in and at least be a rotational player, would help.
  • bret
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 1,133
Look, the back-ups are never as game-ready as the starters - that's why they're not the starters! But maybe the talent is there for Francois to actually be better. Then again, maybe not!

But before we all go off with "the sky is falling", think about this: in Michael Crabtree, we have a potential #1 receiver for the first time in almost a decade. Morgan is a 3rd receiver with 2nd receiver potential. The rest of our receivers are 4th or 5th receivers we are hoping step up into the 3rd receiver role. What happens if Crabtree goes down? Is our depth really better here than a nose tackle?

And what happens if Gore goes down? Is Glen Coffee really the answer. From Matt Barrow's comments about them shopping him on draft day, it doesn't sound like it. So we're putting our eggs in a 6th round rookie's basket?! That's certainly better than our NT situation, right!?

And what about cornerback: we got torched by every team that had a legitimate deep threat. And we did very little too address this situation. So is that situation really better than nose tackle?

Heck, we don't even know yet if we have a starting caliber quarterback!

And you guys are worried that a back-up (in a position where we need to develop a back-up) is getting some reps! You guys are amazing!

The talent level has been improved. But if we're going to develop as a team, some of those back-ups have to get chances to perform and they have to step up to the opportunity.

This Franklin situation is not ideal, but it's not a curse, either. Of course, best case, he would have been signed, and maybe if we hadn't traded up for Davis we would have used our 4th round pick on a nose tackle, but 4th round nose tackles are rarely ready to start as rookies, so we have what we have. Let's let the pre-season play out and then worry where we are to start the season.

[ Edited by bret on Aug 1, 2010 at 15:58:40 ]
Originally posted by Hopper:
Originally posted by Druckenmiller14:
Originally posted by bret:
I don't understand why everyone is so worried. RJF was supposedly 3rd round talent (and how many nose tackles are drafted HIGHER than the 3rd round?) who fell to the 7th due to some off-field issues. Franklin is not going to hold out all year and risk losing his big pay-day next year; but by him being out now RJF is getting valuable reps.

Maybe he'll be the guy we use next year when Franklin walks. Remember, until this year most of the board were convinced Franklin wasn't the answer either because he wasn't a "fatty". Then Patrick Willis starts saying publicly that he's the best NT in the league and everyone's on his nuts!

This club has made pretty good personnel decisions over the last few years; so at this point I see no reason not to trust that they'll have a good plan in place for moving forward. And getting RJF those reps is surely part of that plan!

RJF will never be a legit starting NT in this league. If he starts at that position teams will gash SF right up the middle, more linemen will get to Willis and Spikes, and the teams run defense will take a serious dive.

Vince Wilfork 6-2 325lbs
Casey Hampton 6-1 325lbs
Haloti Ngata 6-4 340lbs
Shaun Rogers 6-4 350lbs
B.J. Raji 6-2 337lbs
Kris Jenkins 6-4 360lbs

Ricky Jean Francois 6-3 295lbs

See a big difference there? Also this isn't a position that you can just plug someone in and expect them to succeed. Vince Wilfork went through about a year and a half of growing pains as a starter before really knowing how to play the position. The 49ers are setting themselves up for failure if this is their plan B.

I hope you know Franklin isn't a two gap NT like any of those guys you listed. The Niners are running a One gap NT scheme like Dallas is using with Jay Ratliff.

RJF would be fine asking to One gap.


You've never seen RJF play on a consistent basis and you say he'll be fine, lol. Don't paint with broad brush. The niners did not run a 1 gap technique 100% of the time last year. Routinely 3-4 tackles take on two blockers and need to be larger defensive linemen. Can you name me one starting 3-4 tackle who weighed less than 300lbs last year?

Just listen to Willis' statements about Franklin. In any type of 3-4 you better have a solid, defensive line. If you want to just plug in inexperienced, late round picks, you better expect some growing pains. Its silly to think otherwise.
Originally posted by NinerGM:
I'm sorry but it's very hard to convince me someone who's never started an NFL game is going to come in and play at the same level of someone who's taken nearly every snap for 2 seasons. I know many of you would like to believe that RJF "will be fine" but if that were the case, we wouldn't have franchised Franklin, and other teams wouldn't have franchised their NT or extended them.

It's funny but I can get into endless thread discussions about how we need a #1 WR talent prior to drafting Crabtree, but somehow we don't need #1 NT talent to make a 3-4 defense work. It's not just about weight, it's about experience. Remember what Snyder said last season about working hard and being able to "do the job" he was "competing against" Marvel Smith?

Don't believe the hype. You don't suddenly get a Rolls by ripping off the Honda logo and placing the RR on the front. This is holdout. He has leverage because frankly the 49ers know they need him more than he needs to practice. He's not under contract but it's not about his market value to someone else because we have no legit starter. His holdout is based on his value to the 49ers.

This, IMHO, is the first big gaffe of the Baalke era. You need someone at minimum who can come in and play without their being such a huge drop in experience and productivity. Talk about depth ... we needed it more only second, IMHO to OL this off season.

We'll pay steeply for this one.

Exactly, this is one of the most important positions on this defense. Its just funny that some here think they can just plug in anyone there and the team will be fine. Without Franklin you better believe you'll see a drop off in production from Willis and co. at the linebacker position.
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