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Forget About the Secondary - NT Is Now a HUGE Concern for 2010

Originally posted by toppdogg32:
This is why I kept screaming for us to draft a NT in the last 3 drafts!!!..Of course I was roundly booed for such a suggestion... Looks like I am right yet again .. They need to scour the waiver wire or explore a trade for a young backup NT, or get a wiley vet-because this has the potential to get BAD!!

Mind your shoulder.

I don't recall anyone being booed for suggesting we draft a NT, either as a starter or as a backup. Quite the opposite, in fact. Most posters here have recognised this vulnerability for some time, just as they have the O line problems.
Originally posted by English:
Originally posted by toppdogg32:
This is why I kept screaming for us to draft a NT in the last 3 drafts!!!..Of course I was roundly booed for such a suggestion... Looks like I am right yet again .. They need to scour the waiver wire or explore a trade for a young backup NT, or get a wiley vet-because this has the potential to get BAD!!

Mind your shoulder.

I don't recall anyone being booed for suggesting we draft a NT, either as a starter or as a backup. Quite the opposite, in fact. Most posters here have recognised this vulnerability for some time, just as they have the O line problems.

Franklin's agent apparently thinks if he plays hardball, the Niner management will cave in. That could be a big mistake...especially in today's uncertain CBA environment. He should be telling his client to sign the tender...then go out on the field and prove he's worth that kind of $$. His NT counterparts, Pickett of GB and Wilfork of the Pats both signed contract extensions...so I'm guessing his agent figures the Niners will do the same for Franklin. The difference is those guys have put together a much larger body (no pun intended) of work as starters at that position. If he prolongs his holdout, Singletary has other NT options, including Sopoaga, RJF and Balmer.
Originally posted by lamontb:
Originally posted by NinerGM:
Originally posted by lamontb:
It's a 3 day mini camp it would be a big deal if he wasn't showing up for TC. I'm not concerned at this point. I agree that the team did seem to pretty much skip over adding depth/youth to the NT, We have to wait and see what RJF can actually do.

a 3-day mini-camp with every vet in camp? and it's officially designated a "mandatory" camp? When was the last time you heard a 49er sitting out a mandatory camp outside of Crabtree? It's been a very, very long time.

There is cause for concern here especially since there is no NFL-starting caliber back-up. Jean-Francios is a PS player IMHO. I like him, I just don't think he's a starter.

WARNING WILL ROBINSON - this was the same approach we took with Marvel Smith and we convinced ourselves Snyder was actually a starter. Remember how that ended? A failed offense and 2 draft picks on the OL. Do we really need to blow up the season because we can't plan ahead a bit?

I would like to not take a NT with our 1st round pick

That's b/c they didn't have any players worth franchising and that player trying to leverage himself for more money. This is what happens when guys step up and perform. and look at his age this is the team when guys try to get that last big contract b/c in 3 years he's not gonna get any big time money. Sadly it's part of the game. If he's still holding out come training camp then I would be more concerned. I think you getting overly concerned at this point I can't see how this resembles Marvel Smith. Smith was brought in and signed to be a starter after coming off a major injury. RJf is just taking snaps while a guy isn't in mini camp and is the back up. I agree RJf is a big question mark and I'm not sure he can get it done either but he's a back up player and won't be the starter unless there is an injury. As of right now homie the back up plan is RJF.

I agree lamb, but I don't want to wait too late into the process. For me it's about timing, for example like what San Diego is doing with the Jackson "holdout". Norv isn't waiting for TC for a receiver to become available and THEN do something about it, he's signing guys who can at least somewhat fill the role so if it does become an extended hold-out, the team isn't completely bare on receiving help. He's got someone he knows will need time to establish a rapport with the QB and can be ready game 1 regardless how the Jackson scenario plays out. Even is Jackson comes back early, great, you have another WR who's capable of contributing. It's totally win-win.

All I'm saying is that if the Niners truly want to take the next step, they have to think beyond their starters and plan for the most probable bumps in the road. At this point, IMHO, the chances of Franklin being a holdout is high. Why?

1) Team just gave Willis a huge extension and Willis says Franklin is the best NT in football.

2) The 49ers don't honestly believe Franklin is the long term answer at NT given his age and his incomplete body of work.

3) No collective bargaining agreement in place to help stabilize the market or guarantee there will even be play next season.

4) A number of players throughout the league both restricted, under-contract and franchised that are holding out.


At this point, I wouldn't be surprised if Manny Lawson held out but his absence can be absorbed by our recent depth signings of LaBoy and draft picks. Again, I just want to remind everyone we were here last year with Snyder and Marvel Smith. I said at the exact time last year that we needed depth in addition to Smith because he had yet to play a game since coming off injury or even take a practice snap. I see something similar this year although the circumstances being a little different. If we sign someone who can at least be a bit more than a PS player like RJF, I would feel a lot better. Even someone from another team who's a back-up and has had a few starts under his belt.

If it sounds like I was really burned from the whole Marvel Smith-Adam Snyder debacle, you're right I was. Why? Because the entire incident was ignored for an entire off-season and brought about the rush, last-minute, oh-my-God-we-need-to-find-someone singing of Pashos who wasn't much better (or reliable healthwise) than Snyder. If so, the team would have put a hair bit more effort into resigning him. As I re-watch the game against Indy, I'm reminded how close we were to making the play-offs if Snyder just has one decent block for the last offensive series (despite Roman's gaffe in Minnesota).


Hey folks! I really appreciate the thorough football discussion in this thread!!

[ Edited by NinerGM on Jun 16, 2010 at 13:19:42 ]
Originally posted by NineFourNiner:
Relax. He'll sign his tender and play.


Yes he will and when he does he'll be playing for yet another contract.
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Originally posted by SonocoNinerFan:
Originally posted by NineFourNiner:
Relax. He'll sign his tender and play.


Yes he will and when he does he'll be playing for yet another contract.

this. win win for us
maybe it time for Balmer to step up
I don't sweat OTA absences and I won't worry about Franklin until September 12. From the fan's perspective, $7 million for 16 (and hopefully more) games is big money, but going into an uncertain 2011 season, I'd be looking to secure my financial future too. If Franklin goes out and dominates, makes the Pro Bowl and all that, will Jed open up the wallet and lock him up to a long-term deal? What if he has a mediocre year or flops?

Franklin knows his value will never be higher to the 49ers than it is right now. Nobody needs him more out there than Patrick Willis. I don't think he's being selfish. He's being smart.
Originally posted by Ohio49er:
I don't sweat OTA absences and I won't worry about Franklin until September 12. From the fan's perspective, $7 million for 16 (and hopefully more) games is big money, but going into an uncertain 2011 season, I'd be looking to secure my financial future too. If Franklin goes out and dominates, makes the Pro Bowl and all that, will Jed open up the wallet and lock him up to a long-term deal? What if he has a mediocre year or flops?

Franklin knows his value will never be higher to the 49ers than it is right now. Nobody needs him more out there than Patrick Willis. I don't think he's being selfish. He's being smart.

I just don't see Franklin sticking around after this year. I don't think he is that great either. His talent didn't all of a sudden just show up. The scheme changed to accomodate his skillset (which isn't rally unique). After this year, I think Franklin will go wherever the biggest payday is (which he should), and then we won't really hear about him again.

Of course, I could be wrong...
Nicely put NCommand and also want that NT next year. I believe he will be either Powe, Ellis or Taylor. I believe Powe will be like D. Williams this year. He will go in the late twenties if continues doing well.

I still want a CB, too. Both CB and NT are top priorities like the OL was this last year. I think we just may finally get that 3-4 NT fatty we've been longing to have since we passed on Wilfolk.

Based on our depth chart right now, I would say that NT is our greatest need. After Frankin who is not your prototypical 3-4 NT, we have RJF and Ice. We have no depth. None. We are hoping that both can take Franklin's spot, but that's not going to happen unless RJF really steps up.

Can you imagine a Mt. Cody-type NT in THIS D. Maybe its a blessing that we need an NT next year because most of the 3-4 team already have signed extensions or drafted rooks.

We just might get who we want again next year.

Still, we need Franklin here.
Originally posted by DJD:
The dude is not under contract, has no long term security and wants a long term deal. Risking injury at a mini-camp is a risk not worth taking for a player in that situation. Don't read more into it than that.

This. Everyone needs to calm down and not get their panties in a ruffle.
Originally posted by NinerGM:
Originally posted by lamontb:
Originally posted by NinerGM:
Originally posted by lamontb:
It's a 3 day mini camp it would be a big deal if he wasn't showing up for TC. I'm not concerned at this point. I agree that the team did seem to pretty much skip over adding depth/youth to the NT, We have to wait and see what RJF can actually do.

a 3-day mini-camp with every vet in camp? and it's officially designated a "mandatory" camp? When was the last time you heard a 49er sitting out a mandatory camp outside of Crabtree? It's been a very, very long time.

There is cause for concern here especially since there is no NFL-starting caliber back-up. Jean-Francios is a PS player IMHO. I like him, I just don't think he's a starter.

WARNING WILL ROBINSON - this was the same approach we took with Marvel Smith and we convinced ourselves Snyder was actually a starter. Remember how that ended? A failed offense and 2 draft picks on the OL. Do we really need to blow up the season because we can't plan ahead a bit?

I would like to not take a NT with our 1st round pick

That's b/c they didn't have any players worth franchising and that player trying to leverage himself for more money. This is what happens when guys step up and perform. and look at his age this is the team when guys try to get that last big contract b/c in 3 years he's not gonna get any big time money. Sadly it's part of the game. If he's still holding out come training camp then I would be more concerned. I think you getting overly concerned at this point I can't see how this resembles Marvel Smith. Smith was brought in and signed to be a starter after coming off a major injury. RJf is just taking snaps while a guy isn't in mini camp and is the back up. I agree RJf is a big question mark and I'm not sure he can get it done either but he's a back up player and won't be the starter unless there is an injury. As of right now homie the back up plan is RJF.

I agree lamb, but I don't want to wait too late into the process. For me it's about timing, for example like what San Diego is doing with the Jackson "holdout". Norv isn't waiting for TC for a receiver to become available and THEN do something about it, he's signing guys who can at least somewhat fill the role so if it does become an extended hold-out, the team isn't completely bare on receiving help. He's got someone he knows will need time to establish a rapport with the QB and can be ready game 1 regardless how the Jackson scenario plays out. Even is Jackson comes back early, great, you have another WR who's capable of contributing. It's totally win-win.

All I'm saying is that if the Niners truly want to take the next step, they have to think beyond their starters and plan for the most probable bumps in the road. At this point, IMHO, the chances of Franklin being a holdout is high. Why?

1) Team just gave Willis a huge extension and Willis says Franklin is the best NT in football.

2) The 49ers don't honestly believe Franklin is the long term answer at NT given his age and his incomplete body of work.

3) No collective bargaining agreement in place to help stabilize the market or guarantee there will even be play next season.

4) A number of players throughout the league both restricted, under-contract and franchised that are holding out.


At this point, I wouldn't be surprised if Manny Lawson held out but his absence can be absorbed by our recent depth signings of LaBoy and draft picks. Again, I just want to remind everyone we were here last year with Snyder and Marvel Smith. I said at the exact time last year that we needed depth in addition to Smith because he had yet to play a game since coming off injury or even take a practice snap. I see something similar this year although the circumstances being a little different. If we sign someone who can at least be a bit more than a PS player like RJF, I would feel a lot better. Even someone from another team who's a back-up and has had a few starts under his belt.

If it sounds like I was really burned from the whole Marvel Smith-Adam Snyder debacle, you're right I was. Why? Because the entire incident was ignored for an entire off-season and brought about the rush, last-minute, oh-my-God-we-need-to-find-someone singing of Pashos who wasn't much better (or reliable healthwise) than Snyder. If so, the team would have put a hair bit more effort into resigning him. As I re-watch the game against Indy, I'm reminded how close we were to making the play-offs if Snyder just has one decent block for the last offensive series (despite Roman's gaffe in Minnesota).


Hey folks! I really appreciate the thorough football discussion in this thread!!

I understand that and agree with a lot of your points. But they can't solve and fix every single problem ahead of time. So players and some positions they are gonna have to take a wait and see approach. I'm sure they had Dan Williams ranked high on there board but at the end they had Davis and Iupati ranked higher. We will see how that works out. Ror instance last year I was pretty upset that the team didn't address pass rush. I wanted them to take Orakpo over anybody then Crabtree fell and I thought it was a good pick, Now Orakpo had a great rookie season, but miraculously the Niners got more pressure and the pass rush improved(though I believe they still need that dominant guy/more aggressive scheme at times). Of course the problem was fully solved, but they saw something in Brooks that led them to believe with more time and reps he could get it done. Thus they could use draft picks to address other areas of need. Maybe it works different for Franklin though. Maybe he goes out and fails this year or plays as he did under Nolan. Thus the niners need to use a pick this year on a NT. Or he could be a beast again and get a 2/3 year extension. The point is some things you have to let play out this way. It isn't recommended but it's part of the game when your talent level starts to rise. If he doesn't show up for training camp then I'm with you 100%
Originally posted by SybErkRimInAL:
f**k franklin. ONE decent year and he suddenly thinks he's Albert Haynsworth?

I know what you mean but thank god he is not like Haynsworth who has all the talent in the world but appears to be just another A-hole.
Does anyone remember when we franchise tagged julian peterson? he didnt sign his tender until right before the season. Its totally common practice for franchise tagged players to not sign, so they dont risk injury. i am not concerned in the slightest.

Also about the injury concern, can anyone name the backup Casey Hampton, Vince Wilfork, Kris Jenkins, Jay Ratliff or Kelly Gregg? NO! you cant have starter depth at every position.

BTW he isnt signing an RFA tender, he is a UFA.

I hate the offseason.
Originally posted by NinerFan408:
Does anyone remember when we franchise tagged julian peterson? he didnt sign his tender until right before the season. Its totally common practice for franchise tagged players to not sign, so they dont risk injury. i am not concerned in the slightest.

Also about the injury concern, can anyone name the backup Casey Hampton, Vince Wilfork, Kris Jenkins, Jay Ratliff or Kelly Gregg? NO! you cant have starter depth at every position.

BTW he isnt signing an RFA tender, he is a UFA.

I hate the offseason.

No one is arguing that we need household name starter depth at every position. In our case we have NO depth - and I'm sure if Vince was out Bellicheck has someone in mind already on the roster who's better than RJF and Soap at that position. Just because I can't name the back-ups for another team does that somehow prove the 49ers have enough depth at that position? Of course not.

I also think Julian Peterson is bad example relative to a NT in a 3-4 versus a LB in a 4-3. Peterson was a good player, but the 49er defense was pretty solid at LB at the time Peterson wanted a big contract. We absorbed that "holdout" pretty well if I remember. Now if Bryant Young held out ..... that's more analogous to the example....

Just my 2 cents
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