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My Prediction for the 49ers' Offense in 2010

Originally posted by ninerlifer:
Originally posted by PTulini:
Originally posted by ninerlifer:
By the way PT.....Amazing depth in this post, I cant beleive I didnt see it until now.

What do you mean?

thread, amazing thread I was pretty drunk when I posted that....but yes I agree we can be that KC O....they had Tony G, we have VD. They had Priest, we have Gore. If our OLine turns out to be anything like that amazing KC OLine, then Alex can consistentaly put up Trent Green #'s.

That's what I'm thinking too. I also think that those teams had very poor defenses. I know how good our defense can be. If we could just be more consistant on offense, our 49ers can be much better than any that the Kansas City Chiefs had!

I mainly put this thread together in order to show what Jimmy Raye and Mike Solari have done in the past. Also, to show what our offense could do and possibly better. There are similarites between the teams.
Originally posted by tjd808185:
I know everyone wants to use this example because it's Raye actually having a productive passing attack, but that was 13 years ago and alot has changed since then.

That's true, but Raye had the luck of becoming OC of two dysfunctional teams since then: the 2001 Redskins, and the 2004-2005 Raiders (interestingly under Norv Turner). It's very difficult to succeed under those situations.
Top ten scoring offense.

We play AZ, SEA & STL twice. Don't think they will be very good.
We play DEN, OAK, KC, SD, TB, CAR, ATL & NO. Again, I don't think any of those defenses will be top 10.

The only teams we face with a top 10 defense will be GB and PHI.

Last year we were actually quite good in red zone offense. With improved run blocking, very important in the red zone, it should get better.

Having a top ten defense will also help and put our offense in good positions to score.
Originally posted by mtminer:
Top ten scoring offense.

We play AZ, SEA & STL twice. Don't think they will be very good.
We play DEN, OAK, KC, SD, TB, CAR, ATL & NO. Again, I don't think any of those defenses will be top 10.

The only teams we face with a top 10 defense will be GB and PHI.

Last year we were actually quite good in red zone offense. With improved run blocking, very important in the red zone, it should get better.

Having a top ten defense will also help and put our offense in good positions to score.

who needs offense when your defense dominates,
Originally posted by jed_york:
Originally posted by mtminer:
Top ten scoring offense.

We play AZ, SEA & STL twice. Don't think they will be very good.
We play DEN, OAK, KC, SD, TB, CAR, ATL & NO. Again, I don't think any of those defenses will be top 10.

The only teams we face with a top 10 defense will be GB and PHI.

Last year we were actually quite good in red zone offense. With improved run blocking, very important in the red zone, it should get better.

Having a top ten defense will also help and put our offense in good positions to score.

who needs offense when your defense dominates,

s**t. you're back
we have way better recievers and running backs
Maybe I was onto something back in early April when I created this thread?

Raye has fond memories of K.C.

Quote:

SANTA CLARA – You can't go home again, as far as Jimmy Raye is concerned.

Raye has served eight separate stints as an offensive coordinator. His most successful, statistically speaking, came when he ran Kansas City's offenses from 1998 to 2000. Those units featured a talented young tight end in Tony Gonzalez, a bullish offensive line and favored a straight-ahead rushing attack.

And they ate up yardage. Raye's 2000 Chiefs ranked fifth in the league in passing and eighth in total yards.

Does Raye, an assistant with the Chiefs for much of the 1990s, see similarities in the tight end-friendly 49ers offense he'll bring to Kansas City on Sunday? Asked that question last year, Raye laughed. There really was no comparison in his mind.

"The difference is that the core group of players in Kansas City, the offensive line, had three Pro Bowl players on it and a Hall of Fame running back in Marcus Allen and a Hall of Fame tight end in Tony Gonzalez," he said Oct. 1, 2009.

"The quarterback (Rich Gannon) was a more stable and veteran player and had played and started a lot more NFL games than the quarterback we're playing with now."

Now Raye has added a few more drops to that glass-is-half-empty assessment. Raye on Thursday compared Vernon Davis to Gonzalez and said that Frank Gore matches up favorably with Allen, who retired after the 1997 season.

"(In Kansas City), we had speed and power and experience," he said. "I think there are some similarities in some players at the skill position."

The 2000 Chiefs had two players, wide receiver Derrick Alexander and Gonzalez, who finished with more than 1,200 receiving yards. The 49ers, meanwhile, haven't had anyone crack 1,000 receiving yards since Terrell Owens in 2003.

The player with the best chance? That's Davis, who finished with 965 yards last season. In 2000, Gonzalez averaged 12.9 yards a catch, the highest of his career. Davis is averaging 12.6 yards a catch through two games this season.

Back then, Raye said, he used Gonzalez more as a wideout. With his basketball background, Gonzalez was a good leaper, had excellent body control and was a mismatch against cornerbacks on the perimeter.

Davis is more muscle-bound – that's why he gave up basketball in high school. But his physique has helped him to become an excellent blocker, which is why he mainly lines up on the end of the 49ers' offensive line.

"(Gonzalez) developed more as an outside receiver because the tradeoff was, at the point (of attack), he wasn't as good an in-line blocker as Vernon Davis is," Raye said. "So he was used more in matchups than probably we do here."

The biggest difference between the two offenses, Raye said, can be found in the trenches.

In the 1990s, the Chiefs' offensive lines featured gritty and dependable veterans such as tackle John Alt and center Tim Grunhard. Later lines included guard Will Shields, who would go on to appear in 12 Pro Bowls and tackle John Tait, who went to two Pro Bowls.

According to coach Mike Singletary, the 49ers' offensive line had its best performance in five seasons Monday night against the Saints. But despite a draft-day commitment to building the offensive line – the starting unit is composed of three first-round picks and two second-rounders – not one has been to a Pro Bowl. Furthermore, Raye pointed out, the 49ers are still trying to build chemistry.

"We were farther ahead and much better in the offensive line," he said of his Chiefs teams. "And that's not to take anything away from this team, but we had a solid offensive line that had been together for a long time."

Read more: http://www.sacbee.com/2010/09/24/3052929/raye-has-fond-memories-of-kc.html#ixzz10U0pRft5
Originally posted by PTulini:
Maybe I was onto something back in early April when I created this thread?

Raye has fond memories of K.C.

Quote:

SANTA CLARA – You can't go home again, as far as Jimmy Raye is concerned.

Raye has served eight separate stints as an offensive coordinator. His most successful, statistically speaking, came when he ran Kansas City's offenses from 1998 to 2000. Those units featured a talented young tight end in Tony Gonzalez, a bullish offensive line and favored a straight-ahead rushing attack.

And they ate up yardage. Raye's 2000 Chiefs ranked fifth in the league in passing and eighth in total yards.

Does Raye, an assistant with the Chiefs for much of the 1990s, see similarities in the tight end-friendly 49ers offense he'll bring to Kansas City on Sunday? Asked that question last year, Raye laughed. There really was no comparison in his mind.

"The difference is that the core group of players in Kansas City, the offensive line, had three Pro Bowl players on it and a Hall of Fame running back in Marcus Allen and a Hall of Fame tight end in Tony Gonzalez," he said Oct. 1, 2009.

"The quarterback (Rich Gannon) was a more stable and veteran player and had played and started a lot more NFL games than the quarterback we're playing with now."

Now Raye has added a few more drops to that glass-is-half-empty assessment. Raye on Thursday compared Vernon Davis to Gonzalez and said that Frank Gore matches up favorably with Allen, who retired after the 1997 season.

"(In Kansas City), we had speed and power and experience," he said. "I think there are some similarities in some players at the skill position."

The 2000 Chiefs had two players, wide receiver Derrick Alexander and Gonzalez, who finished with more than 1,200 receiving yards. The 49ers, meanwhile, haven't had anyone crack 1,000 receiving yards since Terrell Owens in 2003.

The player with the best chance? That's Davis, who finished with 965 yards last season. In 2000, Gonzalez averaged 12.9 yards a catch, the highest of his career. Davis is averaging 12.6 yards a catch through two games this season.

Back then, Raye said, he used Gonzalez more as a wideout. With his basketball background, Gonzalez was a good leaper, had excellent body control and was a mismatch against cornerbacks on the perimeter.

Davis is more muscle-bound – that's why he gave up basketball in high school. But his physique has helped him to become an excellent blocker, which is why he mainly lines up on the end of the 49ers' offensive line.

"(Gonzalez) developed more as an outside receiver because the tradeoff was, at the point (of attack), he wasn't as good an in-line blocker as Vernon Davis is," Raye said. "So he was used more in matchups than probably we do here."

The biggest difference between the two offenses, Raye said, can be found in the trenches.

In the 1990s, the Chiefs' offensive lines featured gritty and dependable veterans such as tackle John Alt and center Tim Grunhard. Later lines included guard Will Shields, who would go on to appear in 12 Pro Bowls and tackle John Tait, who went to two Pro Bowls.

According to coach Mike Singletary, the 49ers' offensive line had its best performance in five seasons Monday night against the Saints. But despite a draft-day commitment to building the offensive line – the starting unit is composed of three first-round picks and two second-rounders – not one has been to a Pro Bowl. Furthermore, Raye pointed out, the 49ers are still trying to build chemistry.

"We were farther ahead and much better in the offensive line," he said of his Chiefs teams. "And that's not to take anything away from this team, but we had a solid offensive line that had been together for a long time."

Read more: http://www.sacbee.com/2010/09/24/3052929/raye-has-fond-memories-of-kc.html#ixzz10U0pRft5
Originally posted by Antix:
Originally posted by susweel:
Not much to really compare, those teams have completely different types of players. I think comparing them is useless.

He's just just talking offense.

They had arguably the best TE in the game, We have arguably the best TE in the league
They had a stud at RB, We have a stud at RB
The had a good numher one receiver, we have (at very least) a good number one receiver.

We still need the QB and line play.

The comparison is valid.

Alex Smith is better than Trent Green and Elvis Grbac. I believe it was one of those two who were the QBs at the time.
Originally posted by Kilgore_Trout:
Originally posted by Antix:
Originally posted by susweel:
Not much to really compare, those teams have completely different types of players. I think comparing them is useless.

He's just just talking offense.

They had arguably the best TE in the game, We have arguably the best TE in the league
They had a stud at RB, We have a stud at RB
The had a good numher one receiver, we have (at very least) a good number one receiver.

We still need the QB and line play.

The comparison is valid.

Alex Smith is better than Trent Green and Elvis Grbac. I believe it was one of those two who were the QBs at the time.

I believe it was QB's Elvis Grbac and Rich Gannon?
  • crzy
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 39,272
Originally posted by Kilgore_Trout:
Originally posted by Antix:
Originally posted by susweel:
Not much to really compare, those teams have completely different types of players. I think comparing them is useless.

He's just just talking offense.

They had arguably the best TE in the game, We have arguably the best TE in the league
They had a stud at RB, We have a stud at RB
The had a good numher one receiver, we have (at very least) a good number one receiver.

We still need the QB and line play.

The comparison is valid.

Alex Smith is better than Trent Green and Elvis Grbac. I believe it was one of those two who were the QBs at the time.

Are you kidding?

Trent Green and Elvis Grbac have 3 pro bowls between them and four 4000 yard seasons. Comparing Alex Smith to these guys is an insult.

Alex Smith isn't even remotely on the level of Grbac or Green.
Originally posted by crzy:
Originally posted by Kilgore_Trout:
Originally posted by Antix:
Originally posted by susweel:
Not much to really compare, those teams have completely different types of players. I think comparing them is useless.

He's just just talking offense.

They had arguably the best TE in the game, We have arguably the best TE in the league
They had a stud at RB, We have a stud at RB
The had a good numher one receiver, we have (at very least) a good number one receiver.

We still need the QB and line play.

The comparison is valid.

Alex Smith is better than Trent Green and Elvis Grbac. I believe it was one of those two who were the QBs at the time.

Are you kidding?

Trent Green and Elvis Grbac have 3 pro bowls between them and four 4000 yard seasons. Comparing Alex Smith to these guys is an insult.

Alex Smith isn't even remotely on the level of Grbac or Green.

Grbac had only one Pro Bowl. At the current pace, Smith will have a 4000 yard season.

Trent Green got his first Pro Bowl in his sixth season of playing (fifth starting.) Smith has an uphill battle (because the sheer number of elite NFC QBs), but it's only his 4th season starting. He still can catch up.
Let's take a real look at this:

How many players on our offense can get the ball and take it 80 yards or take it to the TD on any given play?

1: Vernon Davis

2: Maybe Frank Gore

And that's all folks!!

Now, on most teams, their #1 WR can do this and they usually have 2 RBs with enough speed to do this.

Our main guy that can do it is 250 pounds. We simply need more speed.
Originally posted by Joecool:
Let's take a real look at this:

How many players on our offense can get the ball and take it 80 yards or take it to the TD on any given play?

1: Vernon Davis

2: Maybe Frank Gore

And that's all folks!!

Now, on most teams, their #1 WR can do this and they usually have 2 RBs with enough speed to do this.

Our main guy that can do it is 250 pounds. We simply need more speed.

In Ted Ginn Jr we trust?!
Originally posted by verb1der:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Let's take a real look at this:

How many players on our offense can get the ball and take it 80 yards or take it to the TD on any given play?

1: Vernon Davis

2: Maybe Frank Gore

And that's all folks!!

Now, on most teams, their #1 WR can do this and they usually have 2 RBs with enough speed to do this.

Our main guy that can do it is 250 pounds. We simply need more speed.

In Ted Ginn Jr we trust?!

He's strictly a deep ball receiver. I don't think we have ONE player on offense who can catch a 5 yard route and put fear in the defense that he's capable of taking it to the endzone anytime. Vernon has the speed but he doesn't have the quickness. Ginn has the speed but he isn't really a "short route" kind of guy.

We lack overall speed on offense. KC beat us with speed (rookies). I think Williams is probably our only guy who's shifty enough and fast enough to score from anywhere. Too bad we don't like to use rookies or new players in our offense very often.
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