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The Makeup of an Offensive Line

We all know our O-Line Play needs to improve. Lets see if we can come up with some kind of consensus about how to accomplish that. Or at least see if we can agree on what makes up a good line.

Here is my take

30% Overall talent of our linemen. D, 2-3 of our starters simply need to be replaced
25%OL Coach. I give our guy an F-
18% Skill Positions. I give our QB,RB,WR,TE players an overall B
12% Chemistry and stability. C, most of our starters have played together for awhile...but identity and OC keeps changing
10% Intelligence of our linemen C Top flight o-linemen need to be smart
5% System matches strengths. C, is Baas only a mauler?, can we only run shotgun?


So unfortunately, the areas where we are weakest also happens to be most vital. I think we need a new OL Coach and to straight up replace at least 2 guys.

Now because of this changes we may take a hit in the chemistry dept, but the overall net effect could still be positive. Sing and Raye need to settle on some kind of identity. OR, we need to get some Balanced linemen, no matter how great of a mauler, or how great of a pass protector, we should pass on anyone who can't do both satisfactorily. And the new OL coach should have experience in the identity we will commit to

Zone consensus Action items

Fire Foerster.
Replace with ? Cable? hee hee
New ROT.
[ Edited by danimal on Jan 7, 2010 at 2:48 PM ]
You can post your own breakdown. Maybe I can edit this OP to reflect the consensus of the zone on this matter.

I am sick of seeing posts like...."just fix the oline"
You have 120% there, may wanna change that. Also, I would give our OL Coach a "D". Gore did get another 1000+ yard season, that's gotta count for something.
Originally posted by mcbaes72:
You have 120% there, may wanna change that. Also, I would give our OL Coach a "D". Gore did get another 1000+ yard season, that's gotta count for something.

lmao. Wait, you never heard of the term "give 120%"
Ummm how bout the first thing we HAVE to do is fire Foerster.

The man cannot identify where guys SHOULD be starting.

Until we find someone that can this conversation will have to wait til we better know what we actually have in Personnel.

I mean this is kind of like drilling for oil with an engineer grounded in anthropology and speculating how much your going to sell your new found wealth for before you even barreled a drop.

Pointless.

~Ceadder
Originally posted by Ceadderman:
Ummm how bout the first thing we HAVE to do is fire Foerster.

The man cannot identify where guys SHOULD be starting.

Until we find someone that can this conversation will have to wait til we better know what we actually have in Personnel.

I mean this is kind of like drilling for oil with an engineer grounded in anthropology and speculating how much your going to sell your new found wealth for before you even barreled a drop.

Pointless.

~Ceadder

That is not the debate I am looking to start.

Example. Someone may reply and say they think the importance of chemistry is more like 50% as opposed to 5%. That is the debate I am looking for. It is a debate in theory, so really we don't need to wait for anything before having it
Too much friggin math for me. I'd just say this. I'm not sold on either of our Guards, and know we need a ROT. We have had success in cutting Tackles that went on to be starting guards for other teams, e.g. Kosier and Dahl come to mind.

Of course, I think first of all the collective brain trust needs to decide once and for all what kind of team we will be. Not just we want to be smash mouthed, because that didn't work either.

In my mind, we need at a minimum a new philosophy for O-Line. Do we want smaller guys who can pull out better, do we want to be zone blockers, do we want to be straightahead smashers?

Second, do we plan on any form on play action passing game if we go to the a run first mentality? If so, we need to have good physical pass blockers.

The only one on the present offensive line that needs to be replaced right now is Snyder.

Can a coach teach our guards how to improve their run and pass blocking? If so, maybe there is hope for the present talent.

If not, then we not only need a ROT, but will need interior lineman as well. That can't all happen in the next draft though, so maybe we need to look at converting one of those less talented tackles we have on the practice squad to OG.

As for Heitman, in order to replace him you need a cerebral blocker who understands coverages. There aren't alot of really successful centers who are both good blockers and understand coverage blocking schemes. You usually get one or the other.
Maybe if our O-line wasn't so preoccupied with makeup we could have won a couple more games!
Originally posted by nvninerfan1:
Too much friggin math for me. I'd just say this. I'm not sold on either of our Guards, and know we need a ROT. We have had success in cutting Tackles that went on to be starting guards for other teams, e.g. Kosier and Dahl come to mind.

Of course, I think first of all the collective brain trust needs to decide once and for all what kind of team we will be. Not just we want to be smash mouthed, because that didn't work either.

In my mind, we need at a minimum a new philosophy for O-Line. Do we want smaller guys who can pull out better, do we want to be zone blockers, do we want to be straightahead smashers?

Second, do we plan on any form on play action passing game if we go to the a run first mentality? If so, we need to have good physical pass blockers.

The only one on the present offensive line that needs to be replaced right now is Snyder.

Can a coach teach our guards how to improve their run and pass blocking? If so, maybe there is hope for the present talent.

If not, then we not only need a ROT, but will need interior lineman as well. That can't all happen in the next draft though, so maybe we need to look at converting one of those less talented tackles we have on the practice squad to OG.

As for Heitman, in order to replace him you need a cerebral blocker who understands coverages. There aren't alot of really successful centers who are both good blockers and understand coverage blocking schemes. You usually get one or the other.

Good point on Heitmann. Its just I have wanted to see him replaced for many seasons now, and in each off season I become less rational about him. I just want him gone. But thats just me.
Originally posted by pantstickle:
Maybe if our O-line wasn't so preoccupied with makeup we could have won a couple more games!


Excellent point, but you can't be two careful with the reflective grease.
1. OLine coach!

2. RT is a must fix. ( allthough i'm Ok with having Pashosh if nothing better is available, Snyder is bad at OT and even worse on OG)
Both OG positions were bad this year.
When Chilo played OK, Baas stunk it up and vice versa.
Originally posted by JeuSF49:
1. OLine coach!

2. RT is a must fix. ( allthough i'm Ok with having Pashosh if nothing better is available, Snyder is bad at OT and even worse on OG)
Both OG positions were bad this year.
When Chilo played OK, Baas stunk it up and vice versa.

what % weight in importance do you give to the OL coach. In other words, imagine having 5 Pro Bowlers as starters, do you think that OL would have a great year even with a bad coach? Try to illustrate your opinion in percentage form
Originally posted by JeuSF49:
1. OLine coach!

2. RT is a must fix. ( allthough i'm Ok with having Pashosh if nothing better is available, Snyder is bad at OT and even worse on OG)
Both OG positions were bad this year.
When Chilo played OK, Baas stunk it up and vice versa.

Agree.

Although I can't really speak much to how good a positions coach is, it seems that the coaching for our O-Line hasn't made them any better for the past few years. Granted, Foerster has only been here for what, a year? But any available upgrade would obviously be beneficial.

RT is the biggest weakness in my mind, with the guard play a close second. I personally wouldn't mind seeing Chilo back there next year simply due to his youth and potential, but Baas is a guy who just can't seem to put it all together.

I have to disagree with the OP. I think Heitmann has shown again and again that he is our best Offensive Lineman, replacing him would be a big mistake.
We gotta figure out what kinda identity we want on offense & go in that direction.
OL coach = 100%. Duh.