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Move David Baas to center

Originally posted by Ceadderman:
Originally posted by PatrickJira411:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Another bad day for the Heitmann haters (which is so bizarre that I will never understand it).

Maiocco latest entry on the Niners' OL in 2009:
"Center Eric Heitmann was the team's most consistent offensive lineman. Playing that position is more cerebral than anything else, but Heitmann is one of the more physical centers in the game. He's not nearly as productive in space."
Heitmann's evaluation from Maiocco

Next, we will hear the same thing from Barrows, then the same thing from Sando, and then from the OC, just like last year.

So, if you are one of the four people on this board who have a bias against Heitmann, and are so blinded by your hatred for this player that you are determined to argue year-in, year-out that Heitmann is a problem for this team, it means you have zero knowledge of the game. Please list your names below. You may agree to this statement:
"I agree that I have become so biased against Eric Heitmann that even though year-in, year-out, he is determined to be one of the best, if not the best OL on this team by sportswriters, coaches, and fellow players who continue to name him team captain, that it doesn't matter. The earth is flat and the center of the solar system, dogs moo and cows bark, and Hilary Clinton is really controlled by aliens."

Just admit to the board that you do not know what you are talking about, and that no one should ever take your analysis seriously.

We'll see you next year, when you hope that nobody remembers this year, which was the same argument that you were humilated with last year.

Why would anyone continue to be humiliated year after year with an argument so pathetic?



Well saying he was one of the 49ers most consistant offensive lineman is not saying much when you consider Adam Snyder sucks(ed), Rachal was awful the first half of the season as was Baas who was playing hurt and Staley was basically out for the year after week 7. So basically Heitman was our most consistant o-lneman by default and he was consistant in getting driven back into the backfield when we most needed a yard and I don't know what MM was thinking in writing that Heitman is one of the league's most physical centers? Hmmm...

If Heitman was so great why did the team want to get Cody Wallace onto the field the last couple of games?

Most consistently awful maybe. I mean when you have a guy on the field for the entire season and nobody else can say they either played the same position the entire season, or that they even played the entire season without going down due to injury then of course you have consistency.

Man I wish I could tape the games from the net. Cause what I saw made me sick. Heitman was CONSISTENTLY giving up the PoA when we went to the IForm.

MM says he sucks in space? IForm is bunched there is NO space. So how in the hell can he be even serviceable as a Center? imho Heitmann should move over to RG. Because he doesn't have the tools to be a Center. Oh he's plenty smart enough but so am I. Does that make me a Center?

~Ceadder


Maddog talks like he knows what he is talking about! Ask him about Brooks? Our best pass rusher at LB who he thinks shouldnt even be in the NFL. I cant respect a guys opinion who can be so far off on player endorsements. He has zero credibility with me! Anyone who watched Brooks play could see he had something special when he was on the field. Just as anyone who watches Hymen play can see he has nothing special to offer when playing.
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Originally posted by PatrickJira411:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Another bad day for the Heitmann haters (which is so bizarre that I will never understand it).

Maiocco latest entry on the Niners' OL in 2009:
"Center Eric Heitmann was the team's most consistent offensive lineman. Playing that position is more cerebral than anything else, but Heitmann is one of the more physical centers in the game. He's not nearly as productive in space."
Heitmann's evaluation from Maiocco

Next, we will hear the same thing from Barrows, then the same thing from Sando, and then from the OC, just like last year.

So, if you are one of the four people on this board who have a bias against Heitmann, and are so blinded by your hatred for this player that you are determined to argue year-in, year-out that Heitmann is a problem for this team, it means you have zero knowledge of the game. Please list your names below. You may agree to this statement:
"I agree that I have become so biased against Eric Heitmann that even though year-in, year-out, he is determined to be one of the best, if not the best OL on this team by sportswriters, coaches, and fellow players who continue to name him team captain, that it doesn't matter. The earth is flat and the center of the solar system, dogs moo and cows bark, and Hilary Clinton is really controlled by aliens."

Just admit to the board that you do not know what you are talking about, and that no one should ever take your analysis seriously.

We'll see you next year, when you hope that nobody remembers this year, which was the same argument that you were humilated with last year.

Why would anyone continue to be humiliated year after year with an argument so pathetic?



Well saying he was one of the 49ers most consistant offensive lineman is not saying much when you consider Adam Snyder sucks(ed), Rachal was awful the first half of the season as was Baas who was playing hurt and Staley was basically out for the year after week 7. So basically Heitman was our most consistant o-lneman by default and he was consistant in getting driven back into the backfield when we most needed a yard and I don't know what MM was thinking in writing that Heitman is one of the league's most physical centers? Hmmm...

If Heitman was so great why did the team want to get Cody Wallace onto the field the last couple of games?

" Heitmann does not get driven back any more than any other center in the NFL."

"Second, your premise is that we should take one of our worst starting players, and have him replace the best, or second best lineman on the team. Heitmann is easily the best interior lineman, and it is not even close. So, why in hell would we bench him for a guy like Baas?"

Finally, Wallace was not getting playing time to replace Heitmann in the starting lineup. He was getting time to see if the team wants to retain Baas, or let him walk in free agency. This may mean moving Heitmann to guard, but probably is having Wallace get playing time on the interior to see if he can play at guard next year. This had nothing to do with a future Heitmann benching, which would be idiotic.

Okay let's see where to begin.

1st) You're right he doesn't get blown back. In fact nobody gets blown off the ball when the Blitzer screams right by them as they are standing there in a perfect blocking stance waiting to take on their assignment. If ANYONE had that happen to them when I played we'd be running laps for days. Don't tell me it hasn't happened cause there is LOTS of film showing that it does.

2nd)Baas was drafted to BE a Center. I'm convinced the reason he is NOT the center is because both Warhopp and Foerster have had no idea what to do with the guy or how to accomplish this task. I'm no OLine specialist but I would want the guy with the attitude in the middle. If that means handcuffing him to the incumbent to get him up to speed then you do it. Nolan is also partly to blame for this because he should have insisted on it if he felt that Baas could do the job. Nolan DID draft him after all.

And 3rd) If you play a guy at Center there is a reason you played him there. If you want him to take a Guard role then you plug him in at Guard. Not Center. If you don't understand that by now then you need to open your eyes.

~Ceadder
Heitman isn't terrible but the middle of the line was so bad that we were whiffing as if complete assignments were being missed. DJ pointed out the new scheme defenses are beginning to use and that's what got us but not every team uses that yet and just about every team killed us with blitzes up the middle.

Heitman would be just as responsible for missing a combo block but what the Center doesn't do gets hidden with the Guards.

We drafted Cody Wallace to become a starter or we don't draft him that early. Same goes wih Baas at Center. Heitman is decent, but it seems as though we keep trying to replace him.

Heitman is the Mark Roman of the OL.
Originally posted by Ceadderman:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Originally posted by PatrickJira411:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Another bad day for the Heitmann haters (which is so bizarre that I will never understand it).

Maiocco latest entry on the Niners' OL in 2009:
"Center Eric Heitmann was the team's most consistent offensive lineman. Playing that position is more cerebral than anything else, but Heitmann is one of the more physical centers in the game. He's not nearly as productive in space."
Heitmann's evaluation from Maiocco

Next, we will hear the same thing from Barrows, then the same thing from Sando, and then from the OC, just like last year.

So, if you are one of the four people on this board who have a bias against Heitmann, and are so blinded by your hatred for this player that you are determined to argue year-in, year-out that Heitmann is a problem for this team, it means you have zero knowledge of the game. Please list your names below. You may agree to this statement:
"I agree that I have become so biased against Eric Heitmann that even though year-in, year-out, he is determined to be one of the best, if not the best OL on this team by sportswriters, coaches, and fellow players who continue to name him team captain, that it doesn't matter. The earth is flat and the center of the solar system, dogs moo and cows bark, and Hilary Clinton is really controlled by aliens."

Just admit to the board that you do not know what you are talking about, and that no one should ever take your analysis seriously.

We'll see you next year, when you hope that nobody remembers this year, which was the same argument that you were humilated with last year.

Why would anyone continue to be humiliated year after year with an argument so pathetic?



Well saying he was one of the 49ers most consistant offensive lineman is not saying much when you consider Adam Snyder sucks(ed), Rachal was awful the first half of the season as was Baas who was playing hurt and Staley was basically out for the year after week 7. So basically Heitman was our most consistant o-lneman by default and he was consistant in getting driven back into the backfield when we most needed a yard and I don't know what MM was thinking in writing that Heitman is one of the league's most physical centers? Hmmm...

If Heitman was so great why did the team want to get Cody Wallace onto the field the last couple of games?

" Heitmann does not get driven back any more than any other center in the NFL."

"Second, your premise is that we should take one of our worst starting players, and have him replace the best, or second best lineman on the team. Heitmann is easily the best interior lineman, and it is not even close. So, why in hell would we bench him for a guy like Baas?"

Finally, Wallace was not getting playing time to replace Heitmann in the starting lineup. He was getting time to see if the team wants to retain Baas, or let him walk in free agency. This may mean moving Heitmann to guard, but probably is having Wallace get playing time on the interior to see if he can play at guard next year. This had nothing to do with a future Heitmann benching, which would be idiotic.

Okay let's see where to begin.

1st) You're right he doesn't get blown back. In fact nobody gets blown off the ball when the Blitzer screams right by them as they are standing there in a perfect blocking stance waiting to take on their assignment. If ANYONE had that happen to them when I played we'd be running laps for days. Don't tell me it hasn't happened cause there is LOTS of film showing that it does.

2nd)Baas was drafted to BE a Center. I'm convinced the reason he is NOT the center is because both Warhopp and Foerster have had no idea what to do with the guy or how to accomplish this task. I'm no OLine specialist but I would want the guy with the attitude in the middle. If that means handcuffing him to the incumbent to get him up to speed then you do it. Nolan is also partly to blame for this because he should have insisted on it if he felt that Baas could do the job. Nolan DID draft him after all.

And 3rd) If you play a guy at Center there is a reason you played him there. If you want him to take a Guard role then you plug him in at Guard. Not Center. If you don't understand that by now then you need to open your eyes.
~Ceadder

Exactly, people back pedaling trying to save face
USA Today Season End Review:

OFFENSIVE LINE: Starters — LT Joe Staley, LG David Baas, C Eric Heitmann, RG Chilo Rachal, RT Adam Snyder. Backups — T Barry Sims, C Cody Wallace, T Chris Patrick, G Tony Wragge. Injured reserve — T Tony Pashos.

The 49ers had difficulty building much continuity on the line. Staley missed essentially eight of the final 10 games of the season with knee injuries. Pashos had moved into the starting lineup before sustaining a season-ending shoulder injury. Heitmann was the most consistent starter, while Baas and Rachal played inconsistently throughout. Sims stepped in and generally provided good pass protection as Staley's replacement, but his run blocking was not up to par. Snyder experienced extreme difficulty in pass protection. He lacks the long arms to redirect edge rushers, and he was often caught off balance in his sets. Wallace, Patrick and Wragge rarely played. The line is likely to be a focus of the team's offseason plans.

This is only about the third write-up with the same assessment of Heitmann's play in 2009.

And, once again, for the 1000th time, the anti-Heitmann crowd runs back into the cave.

P.S. We'll see you next year for your latest serving of humiliation. Can we now officially poop-can this thread, or should we wait for five or six more season reviews?

Cheers.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/niners/notes.htm

[ Edited by MadDog49er on Jan 20, 2010 at 10:19:53 ]
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
USA Today Season End Review:

OFFENSIVE LINE: Starters — LT Joe Staley, LG David Baas, C Eric Heitmann, RG Chilo Rachal, RT Adam Snyder. Backups — T Barry Sims, C Cody Wallace, T Chris Patrick, G Tony Wragge. Injured reserve — T Tony Pashos.

The 49ers had difficulty building much continuity on the line. Staley missed essentially eight of the final 10 games of the season with knee injuries. Pashos had moved into the starting lineup before sustaining a season-ending shoulder injury. Heitmann was the most consistent starter, while Baas and Rachal played inconsistently throughout. Sims stepped in and generally provided good pass protection as Staley's replacement, but his run blocking was not up to par. Snyder experienced extreme difficulty in pass protection. He lacks the long arms to redirect edge rushers, and he was often caught off balance in his sets. Wallace, Patrick and Wragge rarely played. The line is likely to be a focus of the team's offseason plans.

This is only about the third write-up with the same assessment of Heitmann's play in 2009.

And, once again, for the 1000th time, the anti-Heitmann crowd runs back into the cave.

P.S. We'll see you next year for your latest serving of humiliation. Can we now officially poop-can this thread, or should we wait for five or six more season reviews?

Cheers.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/niners/notes.htm


While I agree that Heitmann is not even close to being the biggest problem on the O-Line, I don't exactly think this is a ringing endorsement. Saying he was the most consistent of the O-Linemen out of this bunch isn't really an accomplishment. This was one of the worst O-Lines I can recall seeing in sometime. You had Rachal and Baas who were atrocious, Staley was injured, as was Pashos and Snyder was beyond atrocious. So to say he was the most consistent of this motley crew is stating the obvious. That being said I think he is a solid C and the focus should be on our G and RT play and not the C.

[ Edited by Hoovtrain on Jan 20, 2010 at 11:47:11 ]
  • GEEK
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 17,123
Originally posted by Ceadderman:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Originally posted by PatrickJira411:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Another bad day for the Heitmann haters (which is so bizarre that I will never understand it).

Maiocco latest entry on the Niners' OL in 2009:
"Center Eric Heitmann was the team's most consistent offensive lineman. Playing that position is more cerebral than anything else, but Heitmann is one of the more physical centers in the game. He's not nearly as productive in space."
Heitmann's evaluation from Maiocco

Next, we will hear the same thing from Barrows, then the same thing from Sando, and then from the OC, just like last year.

So, if you are one of the four people on this board who have a bias against Heitmann, and are so blinded by your hatred for this player that you are determined to argue year-in, year-out that Heitmann is a problem for this team, it means you have zero knowledge of the game. Please list your names below. You may agree to this statement:
"I agree that I have become so biased against Eric Heitmann that even though year-in, year-out, he is determined to be one of the best, if not the best OL on this team by sportswriters, coaches, and fellow players who continue to name him team captain, that it doesn't matter. The earth is flat and the center of the solar system, dogs moo and cows bark, and Hilary Clinton is really controlled by aliens."

Just admit to the board that you do not know what you are talking about, and that no one should ever take your analysis seriously.

We'll see you next year, when you hope that nobody remembers this year, which was the same argument that you were humilated with last year.

Why would anyone continue to be humiliated year after year with an argument so pathetic?



Well saying he was one of the 49ers most consistant offensive lineman is not saying much when you consider Adam Snyder sucks(ed), Rachal was awful the first half of the season as was Baas who was playing hurt and Staley was basically out for the year after week 7. So basically Heitman was our most consistant o-lneman by default and he was consistant in getting driven back into the backfield when we most needed a yard and I don't know what MM was thinking in writing that Heitman is one of the league's most physical centers? Hmmm...

If Heitman was so great why did the team want to get Cody Wallace onto the field the last couple of games?

" Heitmann does not get driven back any more than any other center in the NFL."

"Second, your premise is that we should take one of our worst starting players, and have him replace the best, or second best lineman on the team. Heitmann is easily the best interior lineman, and it is not even close. So, why in hell would we bench him for a guy like Baas?"

Finally, Wallace was not getting playing time to replace Heitmann in the starting lineup. He was getting time to see if the team wants to retain Baas, or let him walk in free agency. This may mean moving Heitmann to guard, but probably is having Wallace get playing time on the interior to see if he can play at guard next year. This had nothing to do with a future Heitmann benching, which would be idiotic.

Okay let's see where to begin.

1st) You're right he doesn't get blown back. In fact nobody gets blown off the ball when the Blitzer screams right by them as they are standing there in a perfect blocking stance waiting to take on their assignment. If ANYONE had that happen to them when I played we'd be running laps for days. Don't tell me it hasn't happened cause there is LOTS of film showing that it does.

2nd)Baas was drafted to BE a Center. I'm convinced the reason he is NOT the center is because both Warhopp and Foerster have had no idea what to do with the guy or how to accomplish this task. I'm no OLine specialist but I would want the guy with the attitude in the middle. If that means handcuffing him to the incumbent to get him up to speed then you do it. Nolan is also partly to blame for this because he should have insisted on it if he felt that Baas could do the job. Nolan DID draft him after all.

And 3rd) If you play a guy at Center there is a reason you played him there. If you want him to take a Guard role then you plug him in at Guard. Not Center. If you don't understand that by now then you need to open your eyes.

~Ceadder

1: Heitmann is a good player, and would be a potential pro-bowl player if he had starting caliber guards next to him. He was the best OL player this year by far. Ask Maiocco, Barrows, or any other writer that keeps tabs on the team.

2: You are right. With Newberry's injuries, and Heitmann's question marks, Baas was slated to be the future at C. But his flexibility, along with the performance of Heitmann allowed him to be moved to OG. And that's a good problem to have.

But the "attitude" at center argument is a joke. As long as you have a fierce leader along the O-line, a guy like Staley, you'll be fine. It doesn't matter the specific position of that emotional leader.

3: WTF are you talking about in your third point? One of the main criticisms of the Nolan/McCloughlan era was that they preferred players that could play multiple positions, rather than just one. Guys like Rachal (OT/OG), Balmer (DE/NT), Snyder (OG/OT), Baas (C/OG), Wallace (C/OG), Wragge (OG/C), Sims (OT/OG), Walker (WR/TE), Robinson (RB/FB) were all drafted because they provided more "bang for your buck" instead of drafting one player for one position.

Wallace's test run was to see how he held up at guard in order to determine if he could replace Baas or Wragge on the depth chart. And it's clear as they all have the OG/C role.

You really need to open your eyes about the reality of McCloughan's draft picks, FA signings, and intent.

Here are some more: Reggie Smith (CB/S), Ahmed Brooks (ILB/OLB), Parys Haralson (DE/OLB), Marcus Hudson (CB/S).
Hmm, if only the team gave out some kind of award for the best lineman.


Huh? What's that? You say they do give out such an award? The Bobb McKittrick award? And David Baas won the award for the 2009 season? Why you don't say?!
  • GEEK
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 17,123
Originally posted by TheGoldStandard:
Hmm, if only the team gave out some kind of award for the best lineman.


Huh? What's that? You say they do give out such an award? The Bobb McKittrick award? And David Baas won the award for the 2009 season? Why you don't say?!

http://profootballfocus.com/by_player.php?tab=by_player&season=2009&page=&surn=Heitmann&playerid=1201

http://profootballfocus.com/by_player.php?tab=by_player&season=2009&page=&surn=Baas&playerid=2250

Quote:
The Bobb McKittrick award is given annually to the 49ers offensive lineman who best represents the courage, intensity and sacrifice displayed by the longtime offensive line coach, during his 21 years of service to the 49ers. The award was established by the 49ers in 1999, and is voted on by the offensive line.

Good for Baas winning the award, but it doesn't mean he's a starting caliber player.
Originally posted by GEEK:
Originally posted by Ceadderman:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Originally posted by PatrickJira411:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Another bad day for the Heitmann haters (which is so bizarre that I will never understand it).

Maiocco latest entry on the Niners' OL in 2009:
"Center Eric Heitmann was the team's most consistent offensive lineman. Playing that position is more cerebral than anything else, but Heitmann is one of the more physical centers in the game. He's not nearly as productive in space."
Heitmann's evaluation from Maiocco

Next, we will hear the same thing from Barrows, then the same thing from Sando, and then from the OC, just like last year.

So, if you are one of the four people on this board who have a bias against Heitmann, and are so blinded by your hatred for this player that you are determined to argue year-in, year-out that Heitmann is a problem for this team, it means you have zero knowledge of the game. Please list your names below. You may agree to this statement:
"I agree that I have become so biased against Eric Heitmann that even though year-in, year-out, he is determined to be one of the best, if not the best OL on this team by sportswriters, coaches, and fellow players who continue to name him team captain, that it doesn't matter. The earth is flat and the center of the solar system, dogs moo and cows bark, and Hilary Clinton is really controlled by aliens."

Just admit to the board that you do not know what you are talking about, and that no one should ever take your analysis seriously.

We'll see you next year, when you hope that nobody remembers this year, which was the same argument that you were humilated with last year.

Why would anyone continue to be humiliated year after year with an argument so pathetic?



Well saying he was one of the 49ers most consistant offensive lineman is not saying much when you consider Adam Snyder sucks(ed), Rachal was awful the first half of the season as was Baas who was playing hurt and Staley was basically out for the year after week 7. So basically Heitman was our most consistant o-lneman by default and he was consistant in getting driven back into the backfield when we most needed a yard and I don't know what MM was thinking in writing that Heitman is one of the league's most physical centers? Hmmm...

If Heitman was so great why did the team want to get Cody Wallace onto the field the last couple of games?

" Heitmann does not get driven back any more than any other center in the NFL."

"Second, your premise is that we should take one of our worst starting players, and have him replace the best, or second best lineman on the team. Heitmann is easily the best interior lineman, and it is not even close. So, why in hell would we bench him for a guy like Baas?"

Finally, Wallace was not getting playing time to replace Heitmann in the starting lineup. He was getting time to see if the team wants to retain Baas, or let him walk in free agency. This may mean moving Heitmann to guard, but probably is having Wallace get playing time on the interior to see if he can play at guard next year. This had nothing to do with a future Heitmann benching, which would be idiotic.

Okay let's see where to begin.

1st) You're right he doesn't get blown back. In fact nobody gets blown off the ball when the Blitzer screams right by them as they are standing there in a perfect blocking stance waiting to take on their assignment. If ANYONE had that happen to them when I played we'd be running laps for days. Don't tell me it hasn't happened cause there is LOTS of film showing that it does.

2nd)Baas was drafted to BE a Center. I'm convinced the reason he is NOT the center is because both Warhopp and Foerster have had no idea what to do with the guy or how to accomplish this task. I'm no OLine specialist but I would want the guy with the attitude in the middle. If that means handcuffing him to the incumbent to get him up to speed then you do it. Nolan is also partly to blame for this because he should have insisted on it if he felt that Baas could do the job. Nolan DID draft him after all.

And 3rd) If you play a guy at Center there is a reason you played him there. If you want him to take a Guard role then you plug him in at Guard. Not Center. If you don't understand that by now then you need to open your eyes.

~Ceadder

1: Heitmann is a good player, and would be a potential pro-bowl player if he had starting caliber guards next to him. He was the best OL player this year by far. Ask Maiocco, Barrows, or any other writer that keeps tabs on the team.

2: You are right. With Newberry's injuries, and Heitmann's question marks, Baas was slated to be the future at C. But his flexibility, along with the performance of Heitmann allowed him to be moved to OG. And that's a good problem to have.

But the "attitude" at center argument is a joke. As long as you have a fierce leader along the O-line, a guy like Staley, you'll be fine. It doesn't matter the specific position of that emotional leader.

3: WTF are you talking about in your third point? One of the main criticisms of the Nolan/McCloughlan era was that they preferred players that could play multiple positions, rather than just one. Guys like Rachal (OT/OG), Balmer (DE/NT), Snyder (OG/OT), Baas (C/OG), Wallace (C/OG), Wragge (OG/C), Sims (OT/OG), Walker (WR/TE), Robinson (RB/FB) were all drafted because they provided more "bang for your buck" instead of drafting one player for one position.

Wallace's test run was to see how he held up at guard in order to determine if he could replace Baas or Wragge on the depth chart. And it's clear as they all have the OG/C role.

You really need to open your eyes about the reality of McCloughan's draft picks, FA signings, and intent.

Here are some more: Reggie Smith (CB/S), Ahmed Brooks (ILB/OLB), Parys Haralson (DE/OLB), Marcus Hudson (CB/S).

Because this system is giving me fits, I'm just going to say go back to the beginning and read all the posts in this debate GEEK.

I will say however your attitude argument is bunk. Just cause we have Staley means nothing. Especially when he goes down for an extended point during the season. Attitude doesn't matter when you're riding the Pine.

And btw McCloughan didn't have GM responsibilities until two years ago now. Haralson does not fit your argument other than Scott's input as a glorified Scout.

Also Wallace was plugged in at Center. He didn't play much which might explain why so many people are thinking it was Guard.

But I'm basically done with Hymen unless he's sliding over to RG. Cause I've actually SEEN our Guards have to help him out. That should not be happening. Not when he CONTROLS the snap. He should be the very FIRST guy off the blocks. Yet he's consistently blah. If he was as good as people seem to think he is then Rocky Bernard would have at the very least, gotten chipped as he blew through the Line. Instead Hymen is standing there in perfect technical stance as the man just blows right by him. He's had his moments yes. But more bad than good I'm afraid.

~Ceadder
Originally posted by GEEK:
Originally posted by TheGoldStandard:
Hmm, if only the team gave out some kind of award for the best lineman.


Huh? What's that? You say they do give out such an award? The Bobb McKittrick award? And David Baas won the award for the 2009 season? Why you don't say?!

http://profootballfocus.com/by_player.php?tab=by_player&season=2009&page=&surn=Heitmann&playerid=1201

http://profootballfocus.com/by_player.php?tab=by_player&season=2009&page=&surn=Baas&playerid=2250

Quote:
The Bobb McKittrick award is given annually to the 49ers offensive lineman who best represents the courage, intensity and sacrifice displayed by the longtime offensive line coach, during his 21 years of service to the 49ers. The award was established by the 49ers in 1999, and is voted on by the offensive line.

Good for Baas winning the award, but it doesn't mean he's a starting caliber player.

GEEK you straight up admitted he was drafted to BE the Center.

You're right that an award don't mean bubkis, but this team has NEVER even attempted to put him there. The way Hymen is playin I say that it's about time we knock off the horse hockey and get him in there AS the Center. If he fails at it we STILL have Hymen and Wallace.

So, are we waiting for?

~Ceadder
  • GEEK
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 17,123
Originally posted by Ceadderman:
Originally posted by GEEK:
Originally posted by Ceadderman:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Originally posted by PatrickJira411:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Another bad day for the Heitmann haters (which is so bizarre that I will never understand it).

Maiocco latest entry on the Niners' OL in 2009:
"Center Eric Heitmann was the team's most consistent offensive lineman. Playing that position is more cerebral than anything else, but Heitmann is one of the more physical centers in the game. He's not nearly as productive in space."
Heitmann's evaluation from Maiocco

Next, we will hear the same thing from Barrows, then the same thing from Sando, and then from the OC, just like last year.

So, if you are one of the four people on this board who have a bias against Heitmann, and are so blinded by your hatred for this player that you are determined to argue year-in, year-out that Heitmann is a problem for this team, it means you have zero knowledge of the game. Please list your names below. You may agree to this statement:
"I agree that I have become so biased against Eric Heitmann that even though year-in, year-out, he is determined to be one of the best, if not the best OL on this team by sportswriters, coaches, and fellow players who continue to name him team captain, that it doesn't matter. The earth is flat and the center of the solar system, dogs moo and cows bark, and Hilary Clinton is really controlled by aliens."

Just admit to the board that you do not know what you are talking about, and that no one should ever take your analysis seriously.

We'll see you next year, when you hope that nobody remembers this year, which was the same argument that you were humilated with last year.

Why would anyone continue to be humiliated year after year with an argument so pathetic?



Well saying he was one of the 49ers most consistant offensive lineman is not saying much when you consider Adam Snyder sucks(ed), Rachal was awful the first half of the season as was Baas who was playing hurt and Staley was basically out for the year after week 7. So basically Heitman was our most consistant o-lneman by default and he was consistant in getting driven back into the backfield when we most needed a yard and I don't know what MM was thinking in writing that Heitman is one of the league's most physical centers? Hmmm...

If Heitman was so great why did the team want to get Cody Wallace onto the field the last couple of games?

" Heitmann does not get driven back any more than any other center in the NFL."

"Second, your premise is that we should take one of our worst starting players, and have him replace the best, or second best lineman on the team. Heitmann is easily the best interior lineman, and it is not even close. So, why in hell would we bench him for a guy like Baas?"

Finally, Wallace was not getting playing time to replace Heitmann in the starting lineup. He was getting time to see if the team wants to retain Baas, or let him walk in free agency. This may mean moving Heitmann to guard, but probably is having Wallace get playing time on the interior to see if he can play at guard next year. This had nothing to do with a future Heitmann benching, which would be idiotic.

Okay let's see where to begin.

1st) You're right he doesn't get blown back. In fact nobody gets blown off the ball when the Blitzer screams right by them as they are standing there in a perfect blocking stance waiting to take on their assignment. If ANYONE had that happen to them when I played we'd be running laps for days. Don't tell me it hasn't happened cause there is LOTS of film showing that it does.

2nd)Baas was drafted to BE a Center. I'm convinced the reason he is NOT the center is because both Warhopp and Foerster have had no idea what to do with the guy or how to accomplish this task. I'm no OLine specialist but I would want the guy with the attitude in the middle. If that means handcuffing him to the incumbent to get him up to speed then you do it. Nolan is also partly to blame for this because he should have insisted on it if he felt that Baas could do the job. Nolan DID draft him after all.

And 3rd) If you play a guy at Center there is a reason you played him there. If you want him to take a Guard role then you plug him in at Guard. Not Center. If you don't understand that by now then you need to open your eyes.

~Ceadder

1: Heitmann is a good player, and would be a potential pro-bowl player if he had starting caliber guards next to him. He was the best OL player this year by far. Ask Maiocco, Barrows, or any other writer that keeps tabs on the team.

2: You are right. With Newberry's injuries, and Heitmann's question marks, Baas was slated to be the future at C. But his flexibility, along with the performance of Heitmann allowed him to be moved to OG. And that's a good problem to have.

But the "attitude" at center argument is a joke. As long as you have a fierce leader along the O-line, a guy like Staley, you'll be fine. It doesn't matter the specific position of that emotional leader.

3: WTF are you talking about in your third point? One of the main criticisms of the Nolan/McCloughlan era was that they preferred players that could play multiple positions, rather than just one. Guys like Rachal (OT/OG), Balmer (DE/NT), Snyder (OG/OT), Baas (C/OG), Wallace (C/OG), Wragge (OG/C), Sims (OT/OG), Walker (WR/TE), Robinson (RB/FB) were all drafted because they provided more "bang for your buck" instead of drafting one player for one position.

Wallace's test run was to see how he held up at guard in order to determine if he could replace Baas or Wragge on the depth chart. And it's clear as they all have the OG/C role.

You really need to open your eyes about the reality of McCloughan's draft picks, FA signings, and intent.

Here are some more: Reggie Smith (CB/S), Ahmed Brooks (ILB/OLB), Parys Haralson (DE/OLB), Marcus Hudson (CB/S).

Because this system is giving me fits, I'm just going to say go back to the beginning and read all the posts in this debate GEEK.

I will say however your attitude argument is bunk. Just cause we have Staley means nothing. Especially when he goes down for an extended point during the season. Attitude doesn't matter when you're riding the Pine.

And btw McCloughan didn't have GM responsibilities until two years ago now. Haralson does not fit your argument other than Scott's input as a glorified Scout.

Also Wallace was plugged in at Center. He didn't play much which might explain why so many people are thinking it was Guard.

But I'm basically done with Hymen unless he's sliding over to RG. Cause I've actually SEEN our Guards have to help him out. That should not be happening. Not when he CONTROLS the snap. He should be the very FIRST guy off the blocks. Yet he's consistently blah. If he was as good as people seem to think he is then Rocky Bernard would have at the very least, gotten chipped as he blew through the Line. Instead Hymen is standing there in perfect technical stance as the man just blows right by him. He's had his moments yes. But more bad than good I'm afraid.

~Ceadder

You absolutely DID NOT address any of the points I made about our personal.

Nowhere did I say that McCloughlan was solely responsible, hence the "Nolan/McCloughan era" line. But since he's the GM now, and was part of the previous administration, he's going to get the heat for his draft picks and signings.
  • GEEK
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 17,123
Originally posted by Ceadderman:
Originally posted by GEEK:
Originally posted by TheGoldStandard:
Hmm, if only the team gave out some kind of award for the best lineman.


Huh? What's that? You say they do give out such an award? The Bobb McKittrick award? And David Baas won the award for the 2009 season? Why you don't say?!

http://profootballfocus.com/by_player.php?tab=by_player&season=2009&page=&surn=Heitmann&playerid=1201

http://profootballfocus.com/by_player.php?tab=by_player&season=2009&page=&surn=Baas&playerid=2250

Quote:
The Bobb McKittrick award is given annually to the 49ers offensive lineman who best represents the courage, intensity and sacrifice displayed by the longtime offensive line coach, during his 21 years of service to the 49ers. The award was established by the 49ers in 1999, and is voted on by the offensive line.

Good for Baas winning the award, but it doesn't mean he's a starting caliber player.

GEEK you straight up admitted he was drafted to BE the Center.

You're right that an award don't mean bubkis, but this team has NEVER even attempted to put him there. The way Hymen is playin I say that it's about time we knock off the horse hockey and get him in there AS the Center. If he fails at it we STILL have Hymen and Wallace.

So, are we waiting for?

~Ceadder

What do you mean "admit"? It's a fact. But that doesn't mean plans change, and you get reallocate a player to a new position.

The reason why the 49ers aren't putting him at center is because WE DON"T NEED HIM TO PLAY CENTER. Drill that into your damn head. Singletary, McCloughan, and 99% of the fan base know that Heitmann is a good player, and the long-term starter at the position. With 2 backups that play center with Wragge and Wallace, we have NO NEED TO PUT BAAS AT CENTER.
Both Heitman and Baas suck ass and should be replaced. Doesnt take 9 pages to say that.
This must be the worst idea of all time. Baas is the dumbest lineman we have and you want to make him the professor of the oline...genius.