There are 57 users in the forums

Remember
Not a member? Register Now!

Sing sounds rigid, but makes a lot of changes

You have to admit, as frustrating as Sing is sticking to running it up the gut, he actually is much more willing to make changes to find improvements. Nolan would never make such changes:

1. Moving the headset to Goldson
2. Pulling JT O'Sullivan, and then pulling Hill.
3. Trying to make changes on the OL - Pashos to tackle, Smith to guard
4. Cuts Rossum.
5. Demotes Clements
6. Simplified the D right away

I think our fan frustration now might actually be from the fact that we can see the potential and want it realized right now. But Sing seems to be doing things right - giving a plan time to try and work, and then when it is apparent its not, making a transition.

If this is the real case, then he should have an excellent idea of the personnel changes we need for next year. IMHO - Targeting OL talent, finding a true pass rushing threat, getting a premiere safety alongside Goldson, and getting some secondary and running back depth. (This assumes Alex is the answer at QB at least while Nate Davis develops behind him.)
if the offensive playcalling doesn't change versus the Titans and god forbid we lose, Raye needs to go, along with this inept run-first-behind a horrid/banged up OLine offense.
Originally posted by billybonka:
if the offensive playcalling doesn't change versus the Titans and god forbid we lose, Raye needs to go, along with this inept run-first-behind a horrid/banged up OLine offense.

I don't understand this....The Niners threww twice for every run on Sunday and Gore only had 13 carries. Smith threw 32 passes.

The problem is not that the 49ers are running the ball too much. The problem is that they aren't executing the plays.
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Originally posted by billybonka:
if the offensive playcalling doesn't change versus the Titans and god forbid we lose, Raye needs to go, along with this inept run-first-behind a horrid/banged up OLine offense.

I don't understand this....The Niners threww twice for every run on Sunday and Gore only had 13 carries. Smith threw 32 passes.

The problem is not that the 49ers are running the ball too much. The problem is that they aren't executing the plays.

No.

Totally disagreed. It's not that we are not passing enough, it's that the plays that are being called are not the right ones for our offense.
Originally posted by Method:
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Originally posted by billybonka:
if the offensive playcalling doesn't change versus the Titans and god forbid we lose, Raye needs to go, along with this inept run-first-behind a horrid/banged up OLine offense.

I don't understand this....The Niners threww twice for every run on Sunday and Gore only had 13 carries. Smith threw 32 passes.

The problem is not that the 49ers are running the ball too much. The problem is that they aren't executing the plays.

No.

Totally disagreed. It's not that we are not passing enough, it's that the plays that are being called are not the right ones for our offense.

This I agree with. It is also the timing of the run and pass plays as well as the lack of the use of play action. That run play to Norris was a bout as stupid as they come.
My biggest fear thus far, has been his stubbornness. He says "They want to run the ball when they need to run the ball" , But why do you need to RUN the ball when you have an extremely talented WR CORE. I fear he is blinded by his own ideas. Running aint working, OBVIOUSLY. He needs to adjust to that and USE WHATS WORKING! instead of blindly supporting an old man that calls Run run pass, for his play scheme.

I hope Sing, can change this, He wont change anything unless it is his idea. If someone else debates his "FORMULA" then we are built to lose! and bring in the New OC, and in 3 years bring in the new HC...GAR!
Originally posted by MLobsterbush:
My biggest fear thus far, has been his stubbornness. He says "They want to run the ball when they need to run the ball" , But why do you need to RUN the ball when you have an extremely talented WR CORE. I fear he is blinded by his own ideas. Running aint working, OBVIOUSLY. He needs to adjust to that and USE WHATS WORKING! instead of blindly supporting an old man that calls Run run pass, for his play scheme.

I hope Sing, can change this, He wont change anything unless it is his idea. If someone else debates his "FORMULA" then we are built to lose! and bring in the New OC, and in 3 years bring in the new HC...GAR!

So you are suggesting becoming 1 dimensional in the other direction? Heh.

You have to keep running or else they will always defend against the pass. Maybe the reason why we were able to have some success at passing in the first place was because they expected us to run and we caught them off guard.

Further, as MM has pointed out numerous times, the Niners have only called a run play on 1st down about 53% of the time. That is hardly the run run pass offense you speak of.
  • da209
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 2,141
Originally posted by billybonka:
if the offensive playcalling doesn't change versus the Titans and god forbid we lose, Raye needs to go, along with this inept run-first-behind a horrid/banged up OLine offense.

damm i really hope norv gets canned! we need him!... is their anyway the chargers dont make the playoffs and he gets fired. So we can pick him up on time while were in the playoffs?
Originally posted by HearstFan:
You have to admit, as frustrating as Sing is sticking to running it up the gut, he actually is much more willing to make changes to find improvements.

I actually referenced this in another thread. He's made alot of good changes, but the most important one that he isn't making is with the run game. We simply aren't getting anything done with Norris leading the run up the gut. Whenever he's in there, defenses know exactly what's coming.

Until Sing and Raye 'open up' the run game so to speak, we're doomed to constant 2nd/3rd and longs. Run game isn't just about brute force, also need to outscheme our opponent, especially when our OL doesn't have even one superior run blocker.
Originally posted by Method:
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Originally posted by billybonka:
if the offensive playcalling doesn't change versus the Titans and god forbid we lose, Raye needs to go, along with this inept run-first-behind a horrid/banged up OLine offense.

I don't understand this....The Niners threww twice for every run on Sunday and Gore only had 13 carries. Smith threw 32 passes.

The problem is not that the 49ers are running the ball too much. The problem is that they aren't executing the plays.

No.

Totally disagreed. It's not that we are not passing enough, it's that the plays that are being called are not the right ones for our offense.

Bingo! People don't realize that. We do pass a great amount of the time. But its the plays and WHEN they are called that are the MEHS
Originally posted by RedWaltz24:
Originally posted by MLobsterbush:
My biggest fear thus far, has been his stubbornness. He says "They want to run the ball when they need to run the ball" , But why do you need to RUN the ball when you have an extremely talented WR CORE. I fear he is blinded by his own ideas. Running aint working, OBVIOUSLY. He needs to adjust to that and USE WHATS WORKING! instead of blindly supporting an old man that calls Run run pass, for his play scheme.

I hope Sing, can change this, He wont change anything unless it is his idea. If someone else debates his "FORMULA" then we are built to lose! and bring in the New OC, and in 3 years bring in the new HC...GAR!

So you are suggesting becoming 1 dimensional in the other direction? Heh.

You have to keep running or else they will always defend against the pass. Maybe the reason why we were able to have some success at passing in the first place was because they expected us to run and we caught them off guard.

Further, as MM has pointed out numerous times, the Niners have only called a run play on 1st down about 53% of the time. That is hardly the run run pass offense you speak of.


once again. ity is the timing. and the (non)creativeness of the play calls. then we have our run plays we like to run, but we never use play action off of them, and you ant an example of what that can do look at the colts.

also. how many of those 1st down passes came when we were down alot, or like last week at the end of the 1st half and needed to pass? beecause you need to remember we haven't had many 1st downs this year
Originally posted by ninersrule4:
Originally posted by Method:
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Originally posted by billybonka:
if the offensive playcalling doesn't change versus the Titans and god forbid we lose, Raye needs to go, along with this inept run-first-behind a horrid/banged up OLine offense.

I don't understand this....The Niners threww twice for every run on Sunday and Gore only had 13 carries. Smith threw 32 passes.

The problem is not that the 49ers are running the ball too much. The problem is that they aren't executing the plays.

No.

Totally disagreed. It's not that we are not passing enough, it's that the plays that are being called are not the right ones for our offense.

Bingo! People don't realize that. We do pass a great amount of the time. But its the plays and WHEN they are called that are the MEHS

The difference between Raye and Norv is that Norv are creative and unpredictable on the plays he calls on the field. While Raye you can tell that we are gonna run the ball or pass it. Raye just doesn't have that creativity that Norv has.
This 09 offense are more talented than the 07 offense that norv coached(except for the O-line). This 09 offense could be explosive and could be one of the best in the league if we get the right OC.
  • dugo
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 1,047
Originally posted by HearstFan:
You have to admit, as frustrating as Sing is sticking to running it up the gut, he actually is much more willing to make changes to find improvements. Nolan would never make such changes:

1. Moving the headset to Goldson
2. Pulling JT O'Sullivan, and then pulling Hill.
3. Trying to make changes on the OL - Pashos to tackle, Smith to guard
4. Cuts Rossum.
5. Demotes Clements
6. Simplified the D right away

I think our fan frustration now might actually be from the fact that we can see the potential and want it realized right now. But Sing seems to be doing things right - giving a plan time to try and work, and then when it is apparent its not, making a transition.

If this is the real case, then he should have an excellent idea of the personnel changes we need for next year. IMHO - Targeting OL talent, finding a true pass rushing threat, getting a premiere safety alongside Goldson, and getting some secondary and running back depth. (This assumes Alex is the answer at QB at least while Nate Davis develops behind him.)

While I agree with the the moves Sing has made and the attitude he's brought to the niners. He still needs to be able to coach,which I think he can. This being his first full year he's learning the in's and outs and what it takes. Not that ,that gives him a free pass. He needs to learn to coach the team and its players to play within ITS strengths not his ideas. These are the players he has,He doesn't have the personal to be a smash mouth football team especially on the o-line or a even a pass happy team (again the o-line doesn't pass protect) But there are strengths on the team offensively he can use. Misdirection, play fakes, quick slants, screens, besides the normal calls just up the gut. IMHO
Of course this devolved into an offensive play calling debate - but have to agree with a couple of the points made here.

It seems the problem isn't the run/pass ratio - its the "timing" and style of running. CLEARLY, the power running up the middle has very limited effectiveness. Maybe the problem is that the 3 long TD runs have broken up the middle and they are clinging to that hope it happens again??

But more seriously, our offense scheme seems incapable of countering how they are defending our run game. The DTs and LBs are rushing and slanting into the gaps hard and shutting down the interior runs. Where are the off-tackle runs? Pitches? Reverses? And Play-action passes that would take advantage of this defensive strategy??
  • TFSP
  • Member
  • Posts: 315
About that Norris run, if he could have busted that play for 14 yrds, peolpe would be saying, " That was 1 helluva call Jimmy 'Rayray' called".

Yes you would, stop lying.