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We lead the league in 3 & outs

  • Mex49
  • Member
  • Posts: 2,979
Are you surprised?
We are a power running team that drafted a WR and LB that won't start for 2-3 years
Originally posted by Joecool:
Hill is near the top of the league when it comes to third downs, so you can scratch him off the list of who's at fault here.

Not in converting. In checking down to the RB, then yeah he's probably near the top.

-9fA
Originally posted by Joecool:
Hill is near the top of the league when it comes to third downs, so you can scratch him off the list of who's at fault here.

He's in the top of the league in QB rating on 3rd downs, he's last in the league in CONVERTING 3RD DOWNS.

The devil is in the details.
Shaun Hill will always have a good qb rating because he completes 5-10 yard passes and dump offs to the running back. He is THE reason we don't convert 3rd downs because he either gets sacked, gets the ball knocked down with his sidearm duck throws, or throws short of the marker like always. I will blame Chilo for a couple of them because getting sacked within 2 seconds isn't normal lol.
Originally posted by Joecool:
Hill is near the top of the league when it comes to third downs, so you can scratch him off the list of who's at fault here.

Classic Hillusion.

On 3rd down and 8, defenses are more than happy to allow a 5 yard completion. Unfortunately, Hill likewise seems more than happy to complete a 5 yard pass to the running back. The result is that we always punt and yet Hill maintains a high completion percentage and quarterback rating on third downs. Those passes do not in any way reflect positively on Hill - they are passes that any QB could make, but that most would know better than to attempt.
Originally posted by wadjay:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Hill is near the top of the league when it comes to third downs, so you can scratch him off the list of who's at fault here.

Classic Hillusion.

On 3rd down and 8, defenses are more than happy to allow a 5 yard completion. Unfortunately, Hill likewise seems more than happy to complete a 5 yard pass to the running back. The result is that we always punt and yet Hill maintains a high completion percentage and quarterback rating on third downs. Those passes do not in any way reflect positively on Hill - they are passes that any QB could make, but that most would know better than to attempt.

well , give him an OL that can block more than 11/2 seconds and he will throw for the 1st down !
Originally posted by cNiner:
Originally posted by wadjay:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Hill is near the top of the league when it comes to third downs, so you can scratch him off the list of who's at fault here.

Classic Hillusion.

On 3rd down and 8, defenses are more than happy to allow a 5 yard completion. Unfortunately, Hill likewise seems more than happy to complete a 5 yard pass to the running back. The result is that we always punt and yet Hill maintains a high completion percentage and quarterback rating on third downs. Those passes do not in any way reflect positively on Hill - they are passes that any QB could make, but that most would know better than to attempt.

well , give him an OL that can block more than 11/2 seconds and he will throw for the 1st down !

stop throwing out those alexcuses
Originally posted by cNiner:
Originally posted by wadjay:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Hill is near the top of the league when it comes to third downs, so you can scratch him off the list of who's at fault here.

Classic Hillusion.

On 3rd down and 8, defenses are more than happy to allow a 5 yard completion. Unfortunately, Hill likewise seems more than happy to complete a 5 yard pass to the running back. The result is that we always punt and yet Hill maintains a high completion percentage and quarterback rating on third downs. Those passes do not in any way reflect positively on Hill - they are passes that any QB could make, but that most would know better than to attempt.

well , give him an OL that can block more than 11/2 seconds and he will throw for the 1st down !

Granted, our offensive line has not played very well, if we want to be a successful team, they need to play much much better.

However, they have not been close to the worst in the league - which is where we rank on 3 and outs. You have to realize that Hill is at least part of the problem, right?
Originally posted by B650:
Originally posted by carl:
No QB would be successful with our offensive line. They can't run block and they can't pass block. They can't do anything.

If you put in Alex, you'll have the same results if the line can't block for him. May as well throw in Davis and see him fail as well. Then all us "fans" can criticize each other further.

How many early round picks have we used on the offensive line? This failure falls squarely on the shoulders of Scot McCoulaghn. He's had enough time and certainly enough early draft picks to build us a better line than we have. And it pains me to see Justin Smiley blocking so well for the Dolphins. Maybe he did want too much money, I really don't know. But considering what we've had to endure, it still pains me to watch Smiley in another uniform.

So why start the oldest QB with the least talent if all of them are going to play equally bad?

No one with the opinion that they are equally bad has an answer for that question.
Originally posted by cNiner:
Originally posted by wadjay:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Hill is near the top of the league when it comes to third downs, so you can scratch him off the list of who's at fault here.

Classic Hillusion.

On 3rd down and 8, defenses are more than happy to allow a 5 yard completion. Unfortunately, Hill likewise seems more than happy to complete a 5 yard pass to the running back. The result is that we always punt and yet Hill maintains a high completion percentage and quarterback rating on third downs. Those passes do not in any way reflect positively on Hill - they are passes that any QB could make, but that most would know better than to attempt.

well , give him an OL that can block more than 11/2 seconds and he will throw for the 1st down !

Seriously? That happens maybe once or twice a game and happens at least once or twice a game on teams all across the league.

He's not converting them this year because he's not making his reads, just staring down the receiver and when that receiver is obviously not open (because he's being stared down) he checks down to the RB for a gain short of the 1st down marker.

[ Edited by Gavintech on Oct 16, 2009 at 09:09:33 ]
Originally posted by wadjay:
Originally posted by cNiner:
Originally posted by wadjay:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Hill is near the top of the league when it comes to third downs, so you can scratch him off the list of who's at fault here.

Classic Hillusion.

On 3rd down and 8, defenses are more than happy to allow a 5 yard completion. Unfortunately, Hill likewise seems more than happy to complete a 5 yard pass to the running back. The result is that we always punt and yet Hill maintains a high completion percentage and quarterback rating on third downs. Those passes do not in any way reflect positively on Hill - they are passes that any QB could make, but that most would know better than to attempt.

well , give him an OL that can block more than 11/2 seconds and he will throw for the 1st down !

Granted, our offensive line has not played very well, if we want to be a successful team, they need to play much much better.

However, they have not been close to the worst in the league - which is where we rank on 3 and outs. You have to realize that Hill is at least part of the problem, right?

Of course Hill is a part of the problem

1. OLine is playing terrible. Pass blocking and run blocking
2. Running Backs -Line isn't opening holes but RB's need to make something out of nothing. The best ones do.
3. Raye. Running constantly up the middle when it doesn't work. Constantly in 3rd and long.
4. Hill/Receivers- Either they are not getting open or Hill is not finding them. Maybe not getting enought time to get open - see problem #1.
Originally posted by Afrikan:
Originally posted by JDeezy:
Originally posted by Afrikan:
Originally posted by JDeezy:
Originally posted by Squirrel:
Originally posted by SybErkRimInAL:
I think we can check Hill of the list of capable QB's.

Smith for whatever reason, deserves ANOTHER shot. Lets get that over with so we can check him off the list.




Love it.......they both need to be checked off.

Perfect, so why are you still watching the games.....or are you? I mean, season over right....no use stressing your self out.

That's not the point.....they're on the team I cheer on the team. I love the Niners, nobody said anything about season over, I just think they both suck. Because its quarterback it gets more attention. If I said Spurlock sucks.......nobody would be questioning it, but just because people have hard ons for one or the other doesn't mean that either are any good. As a fan, I have the right to question the capabilities of the players.......it doesn't make me less of a fan to point out the obvious. Here's news for you......our guards suck as well......guess i'm less of a fan now.

If you believe that "both need to be checked off" you're basically saying we are wasting our time by having them back there starting games for our team.....lets get someone else in there...and in this case it would be Nate and go from there.....which basically means you feel the season is over because you want to hand the responsibilities to a 5th round draft pick to play behind this Oline. and I like Nate Davis.

u know, maybe I read too much into people's responses.....

Yeah this may be the smartest thing you've said.........check em off, but they're still playing for us, thus i'm still rooting....that doesn't stop excuse me for pointing out the obvious.
well we do have Shaun Hill soooo
The problem is the offensive line on first and second down don't get any push on our obvious running plays so it's always third and long and Hill can't throw a hard spiral any more then 10 yards down the field so it's not really hard to stop our third downs. They all zone the linebackers bring up the safeties to protect the middle of the field and force Hill to throw a tight spiral to beat them 10+ yards down the field which he CANT CANT CANT CANT do. People who keep saying Hill isn't the problem watch other games around the NFL. Did you watch the Packers play the Vikings where Rodgers was sacked about 9 times? He has less time to throw then Hill does yet he still goes down the field and finds receivers and was IN the game but their defense sucked so they lost. HILL IS THE PROBLEM OPEN YOUR EYES!
Originally posted by Thrash88:
The problem is the offensive line on first and second down don't get any push on our obvious running plays so it's always third and long and Hill can't throw a hard spiral any more then 10 yards down the field so it's not really hard to stop our third downs. They all zone the linebackers bring up the safeties to protect the middle of the field and force Hill to throw a tight spiral to beat them 10+ yards down the field which he CANT CANT CANT CANT do. People who keep saying Hill isn't the problem watch other games around the NFL. Did you watch the Packers play the Vikings where Rodgers was sacked about 9 times? He has less time to throw then Hill does yet he still goes down the field and finds receivers and was IN the game but their defense sucked so they lost. HILL IS THE PROBLEM OPEN YOUR EYES!

I think we could be in a Hostler situation. Remember, Hostler was the QB coach under Norv and we were going to use the Norv type offense that year and because he sucked at game planning and his playbook was simple, Hostler also had trouble designing viable plays to get WRs involved. It seems that we are getting another Norv Turner downgrade in Raye. The year with Hoss, linemen didn't know what they were doing as it is happening now.

[ Edited by Joecool on Oct 16, 2009 at 12:26:21 ]