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All one can talk is offense - is that really the problem?

Originally posted by NinerGM:
Originally posted by SybErkRimInAL:
Originally posted by B650:
Yes, it's the offense. And as a result, the defense is starting to suffer.

Just like the San Francisco Giants.

perfect example. Yesterdays' game, their first drive, we get them to 3 and out. Our first drive ends up in a pick. Now our D is forced to defend a short field.

+1

The strategy for a W for this team is a strong running game - IE, Time of Possession (read hear best defense is to keep the opposing offense off the field), a tenacious defense to force 3-and-outs or turnovers to do what? Give your offense the ball to chew up the clock, physically beating your opponent down.

This formula doesn't work when you can't sustain drives and can't muster an offense. The defense isn't (clearly) good enough to carry this team EVERY GAME. Just like you can't expect a QB and an offense to have 400 plus yard games every week, you can't always expect a defense to completely shutdown an opponent and give our run-into-a-wall, three-and-out offense 6 possessions and wait for an opponent's defensive breakdown to score.

That will happen more likely against bad teams, but AGAIN as it proved this past Sunday, equally or superior talented and better coached teams will find ways to counter our strategy and win - even at the last minute (Minnesota).


--- but all that said, the D played poorly,

This...
Originally posted by SybErkRimInAL:
defense played like s**t yesterday. yes they contributed to our blowout. BUT, they are not the issue with the team this season. It's clearly the offense. Up until yesterdays game, our D has been playing exceptionally well. Can't say the same for our offense. Our offense has been really bad, week in, week out.
Watching that game tonight makes me realize how the 49ers offense is light years away from being any good. It's amazing how some of these other teams have offensive lines that block, quarterbacks that throw accurate passes, receivers that get open, and coordinators that actually know how to attack a defense. After hitting rock bottom in 2004, this offense is still inept at every level and is ranked 29th.
Originally posted by amir_tn80:
Watching that game tonight makes me realize how the 49ers offense is light years away from being any good. It's amazing how some of these other teams have offensive lines that block, quarterbacks that throw accurate passes, receivers that get open, and coordinators that actually know how to attack a defense. After hitting rock bottom in 2004, this offense is still inept at every level and is ranked 29th.

Yes and it BETTER be fixed this bye week. Raye has been in this league too long not to know that we need to make adjustments.
Originally posted by dust-7:
Originally posted by SybErkRimInAL:
Up until yesterdays game, our D has been playing exceptionally well. Can't say the same for our offense.


But yesterday - against the Falcons - the game to 'move on from', to forget, to pretend was never played - the D was not a top-ranked D. And the offense put up 10 points.

Since when is 10 points a reason to celebrate the performance. Do you remember how we got our one TD? On one broken play by the defense where Josh Morgan ran 60+ yards. It was not this amazing clock consuming, perfect execution drive by Shaun Hill, it was one lucky play where the Atl D messed up.

When a defense struggles and gives up points, do you know what a good QB and offense does? It responds with positive drives. It does not go 3 and out, again and again and again. Blame the defense, blame Shaun Hill, blame the play calling, blame the O-line, heck for this game blame the ghosts of Eddie D. But "The Problem" consistently week to week....is our offense. This was uncharacteristic of our defense to date this season. Our offense pretty much performed as poorly as they usually do, one good drive mixed in with a bunch of 3 and outs.
The defense was every bit as responsible for the loss to the Falcons, as the offense was.

That being said, this thread is a slap in the face to defensive performances in the first 4 weeks of the season.
Originally posted by amir_tn80:
Watching that game tonight makes me realize how the 49ers offense is light years away from being any good. It's amazing how some of these other teams have offensive lines that block, quarterbacks that throw accurate passes, receivers that get open, and coordinators that actually know how to attack a defense. After hitting rock bottom in 2004, this offense is still inept at every level and is ranked 29th.

And its only ranked 29th because our defense has given it the ball back, giving it plenty of opportunities.

We lead the league in three n' outs on offense.

Our defense is nowhere near the bottom in causing 3 n' outs. In fact, we are probably still near the top.

If we had the Ravens 2001 defense we might have won this game. So I guess the complaint is that we don't have one of the best defenses in the history of the league.

With our three n' out offense, we either have a top 3 defense in the league (rated per DRIVE, not per game) or we can forget about the playoffs.

I STILL think we have a top ten defense. We have forced a lot of punts so far this season.
  • dust-7
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Originally posted by 49erFan:
The defense was every bit as responsible for the loss to the Falcons, as the offense was.

That being said, this thread is a slap in the face to defensive performances in the first 4 weeks of the season.

Only if you wish it to be.

In fact, that's why the DEFENSIVE FAILURE!!! stands out so much in this game - and why so few won't admit it, and think it's ALL primarily on the O. Maybe the O is all they've been following, and all they are prepared to discuss. I don't know. But the game showed something else, prepared or no. And they sure weren't. And Singletary admitted it, and said as much.

We expected this offense to show up. And they put points on the board. And they looked bad doing it. And they were stopped for three. And three were taken away with a sack.

But that was expected.

What wasn't expected was that this D would show. We expected, as you say, AZ, MN - the D that showed up then. We didn't expect this. We HAD pressure on Warner. And coaching went prevent one play too often against Favre, assuming Favre would beat any pressure. This game - it wasn't even that. Smith played well - but I'm not going to repeat everything from above. Just see previous.

So you have to look at this, as in the OP, to perhaps get a sense of what happened and why. A lot of posters got all this right there as it was happening. And I agreed. These problems remain, the Colts come along, the Bears? They beat the 49ers BECAUSE of a bad 49ers D. And the stats won't be kind, either, after adding up this week. We know the offense is still coming together, and the O-line is probably going to get shaken up yet again and etc. That's going to take time. The D is much the same as last year, same DC, same HC - and yet.
Originally posted by 9erfanAUS:
It's not so much the offense as it is the philosophy.

We're don't have a strong enough offensive line to tell our opponent "We're going to run, stop us." We need to be more creative.

-9fA

I agree but the problem is the o line isn't good enough to be creative. The A gaps are being raped the opposing teams. The guards aren't doing there jobs at all. To add in with the debacle at RT.
  • dust-7
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Originally posted by BrianGO:
Originally posted by amir_tn80:

With our three n' out offense

Bad offense - yes. I think I've said that in every message here.

But that bad offense put 10pts on the board in the first half.

And the game was over. It WASN'T over because the O put 10pts on the board.

And I've said this many times now. But it's important to repeat. The game wasn't over because the O put 10pts on the board. The game was over because the DEFENSE let ATL put up 35!

That's why. It's basically the point of the OP.
  • dust-7
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Originally posted by lamontb:
the problem is the o line isn't good enough

Bad O-line. But that's being addressed - now. There will be a change. It's being addressed.

But that bad O put up - count 'em - TEN PTS. They scored 10 in the first half.

And the game was over.

It was over because the DEFENSE was smothered to the tune of THIRTY-FIVE POINTS!

That is why. You think Joe with that line centered by Cross could have won the day - or Favre with his Vikes, today? You think Steve Young could have run for 35 points in the first half.

C'mon. Let's see what happened for what actually happened.
Originally posted by dust-7:
Originally posted by 49erFan:
The defense was every bit as responsible for the loss to the Falcons, as the offense was.

That being said, this thread is a slap in the face to defensive performances in the first 4 weeks of the season.

Only if you wish it to be.

In fact, that's why the DEFENSIVE FAILURE!!! stands out so much in this game - and why so few won't admit it, and think it's ALL primarily on the O. Maybe the O is all they've been following, and all they are prepared to discuss. I don't know. But the game showed something else, prepared or no. And they sure weren't. And Singletary admitted it, and said as much.

We expected this offense to show up. And they put points on the board. And they looked bad doing it. And they were stopped for three. And three were taken away with a sack.

But that was expected.

What wasn't expected was that this D would show. We expected, as you say, AZ, MN - the D that showed up then. We didn't expect this. We HAD pressure on Warner. And coaching went prevent one play too often against Favre, assuming Favre would beat any pressure. This game - it wasn't even that. Smith played well - but I'm not going to repeat everything from above. Just see previous.

So you have to look at this, as in the OP, to perhaps get a sense of what happened and why. A lot of posters got all this right there as it was happening. And I agreed. These problems remain, the Colts come along, the Bears? They beat the 49ers BECAUSE of a bad 49ers D. And the stats won't be kind, either, after adding up this week. We know the offense is still coming together, and the O-line is probably going to get shaken up yet again and etc. That's going to take time. The D is much the same as last year, same DC, same HC - and yet.

And yet......our D has played excellent all year. Look at time of possession, 3rd down conversions, points scored, etc etc.....the offense is the problem. The D has bailed them out every game so far this year, but couldn't do it on Sunday. You cant expect the D to win every game for you, even if the D had intercepted numerous passes and scored on them its still not enough because the O couldn't do s**t.

Look at the rankings for our D then look at the rankings for the O....who is better, the D.

How you could even begin to blame the D is really mind boggling! Granted they didn't have their best day on Sunday but the Offense is horrendous.
  • dust-7
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Originally posted by jreff22:
You cant expect the D to win every game for you

Are you even bothering to read what I wrote, even just above?

It doesn't seem like it.
Originally posted by dust-7:
Originally posted by BrianGO:
Originally posted by amir_tn80:

With our three n' out offense

Bad offense - yes. I think I've said that in every message here.

But that bad offense put 10pts on the board in the first half.

And the game was over. It WASN'T over because the O put 10pts on the board.

And I've said this many times now. But it's important to repeat. The game wasn't over because the O put 10pts on the board. The game was over because the DEFENSE let ATL put up 35!

That's why. It's basically the point of the OP.

OK, we get the point. Our defense played poorly against Atlanta, its obvious.

But the idea that our season is in trouble because of our defense is no where near obvious.

We also had a lot of TURNOVERS as well. Don't forget about that.

1) If we had a timeout left, we could have challenged the poor call on the non-fumble by Walker. 7 points.
2) If Bly would have taken the pick to the house instead of showboating, it would have saved an Atlanta touchdown and given us 7 points. 14 points.
3) Then our offense goes three n' out all day.

For crying out loud, yes Atlanta put up points, but look at how many OPPORTUNITIES they had due to the combination of three n' outs and turnovers.

[ Edited by BrianGO on Oct 12, 2009 at 22:07:21 ]