49ers vs. Crabtree (Contract - Who Won?)

Originally posted by Giant9er:

Originally posted by kronik:

Originally posted by FILTHpigskin:
Come on guys... MadDog is always right.

Now, bow down and kiss the virtual ground he floats over.

Why does anyone care what this guy thinks? Most vets on the board already knows that he's a egotistic fraud. Most including myself have no respect for this guy and won't take him seriously. Just ignore him. If not, he may run to a mod and cry to have you banned.

Anybody that has been around here for any period of time on this site knows what Maddog is, a master of spin and a master of turning others info into his own. Just don't pay attention to him, I put him in the same category of poster as NolanHasAPlan(for those of you who remember that guy lol) he simply is a joke poster who cant actually believe what he is typing, he just wants a reaction and has to much time on his hands. What do you expect from a High School teacher who never made it in football? I would be cynical and hurt about my own failure too lol

Originally posted by MadDog49er:

Originally posted by kronik:

Originally posted by FILTHpigskin:
Come on guys... MadDog is always right.

Now, bow down and kiss the virtual ground he floats over.

Why does anyone care what this guy thinks? Most vets on the board already knows that he's a egotistic fraud. Most including myself have no respect for this guy and won't take him seriously. Just ignore him. If not, he may run to a mod and cry to have you banned.

Everyone knows that you have attacked me over the years (mostly after I showed the board your four factual errors in the Bryant Johnson-Arnaz Battle post last year..the same one that you eventually altered, and agreed that I was right and you were wrong), so for you to call me a fraud is...nothing.

I knew you would re-appear to attack.

Oh, you mean the post that you surrendered and disappeared with your tail between your legs? I better stop right here before you cry to a mod again. Boo Hoo Hoo.

Originally posted by tjd808185:
Those who didn't burn their jerseys

This thread is going to go the way of the other locked Crabtree threads unless you guys can keep the tensions low. LA is doing a great job of arguing with someone and keeping it clearly within the rules.

Let's stop with the "lazy" and "egotistical" comments, despite how true you may think those statements are.

If not warnings will be issued and threads will be locked. Thanks, everyone.

Originally posted by MadDog49er:

Originally posted by LA9erFan:

Originally posted by MadDog49er:
If you read the article by Brandt, someone agrees with me. An expert in the cap.

Only because you've shifted the paradigm.

All along, you asserted that Crabtree deserved a contract that was outside of his slotted position, that the 49ers were being obtuse in attempting to maintain the slot while dealing with a player in a "unique" situation like Crabtree, and that he deserved to make more money than DHB. You also asserted that Parker would be able to achieve these means, or close to them, by taking advantage of an inexperienced and inept 49er front office.

By those standards, which are the standards that YOU have been espousing all along, Parker fell well short, and the Niners came out the clear victors.

Brandt properly points out that this contract is reasonable for both sides (within the context of an unreasonable rookie structure), yet he hasn't established the false paradigm that you have over the last couple of months, using DHB as the measuring stick. You're now using nebulous phrases like "unique contract" (whatever that means) to point toward you being right all along.

You can always claim to be right if you shift your standards after the fact, which is exactly what you've done.

The first part of your paragraph is correct (if this isn't a unique contract and unique situation, then what is?), but I never stated that Parker would achieve numbers beyond DHB. Let's be fair.

Yes, let's be fair.

I said that you've asserted that Parker would be able to achieve these means, or close to them, by taking advantage of an inexperienced and inept 49er front office.

This provides the opportunity for discretion. By no reasonable measure does Crabtree's contract approach anywhere near what DHB got. In fact, we're comparing him to Raji's contract, and he still falls short. And DHB was a measuring stick that you used on multiple occasions.

Furthermore, I'd guess that the gains that Parker did achieve were capable of being attained all along, had he just approached the bargaining table. The Niner offer was their baseline proposal, Parker counters, Niners re-counter, etc.

The holdout accomplished nothing that normal negotiations couldn't have 2 months ago, and the terms of Crabtree's deal (in relation to other picks) bears that out. So by virtue of Parker "getting on the plane", he did make more money for his client...but he could have gotten on that same plane 2 months ago.

49ers got their player and crabtree is a millionaire because he played good in college


how is there a winner or a loser here?

Originally posted by SonocoNinerFan:
Based on yearly averages, the Niners landed Crabtree in the upper end of the #10 slot when looking at plausible outcome of the escalators in the Crabtree and Raji deals. That much is obvious if analyzing this by comparing apples to apples.

I'm sure Parker got some concessions that were important to him, but in the end the Niners did what they set out to do.

I'm still ticked that this deal didn't get done in July. This is where I see genuine bad faith from Parker in that I believe he was counting on gaining leverage by virtue of a poor start by the Niners and when that didn't happen he had to come into town with hat in hand and negotiate a deal that could have been done much earlier.

I'm with you on that. Its really too bad Crabtree wasn't in TC and isn't likely going to be in a position to contribute for some weeks, at the earliest.

Given his talent I expect that he will contribute some this year, though.

As to whether it was Parker or Crabtree himself that was behind the holdout, I doubt that we'll ever really know, but the scenario you present is a likely as any.

Originally posted by RonMexico:
49ers got their player and crabtree is a millionaire because he played good in college


how is there a winner or a loser here?

because both of those things were all set to be true months ago.

you guys are forgetting the most important part of this contract being signed, Crabtree is a niner, at this point does the contract really matter, all that matters is this kid produces on the filed and makes us a dangerous team

Originally posted by valrod33:
CRABTREE SIGNED MOTHERb***hES HE IS A NINER

Quote:
Re: Michael Crabtree Contract Article‏
From: Andrew Brandt ([email protected])
Sent: Thu 10/08/09 12:59 PM
To: xxxxx xxxxxxx ([email protected])

Getting asked a lot about who won and lost. In my experience, never about that, not going there. Thanks.

Brandt's response to my question as to who won or lost in the negotiation. Sorry MD, but even Andrew "Cap Expert" Brant won't go there to make a definitive judgment.

Originally posted by itlynstalyn:

Quote:
Re: Michael Crabtree Contract Article‏
From: Andrew Brandt ([email protected])
Sent: Thu 10/08/09 12:59 PM
To: xxxxx xxxxxxx ([email protected])

Getting asked a lot about who won and lost. In my experience, never about that, not going there. Thanks.

Brandt's response to my question as to who won or lost in the negotiation. Sorry MD, but even Andrew "Cap Expert" Brant won't go there to make a definitive judgment.

Originally posted by itlynstalyn:

Quote:
Re: Michael Crabtree Contract Article‏
From: Andrew Brandt ([email protected])
Sent: Thu 10/08/09 12:59 PM
To: xxxxx xxxxxxx ([email protected])

Getting asked a lot about who won and lost. In my experience, never about that, not going there. Thanks.

Brandt's response to my question as to who won or lost in the negotiation. Sorry MD, but even Andrew "Cap Expert" Brant won't go there to make a definitive judgment.

Originally posted by oldninerdude:

Originally posted by SonocoNinerFan:
Based on yearly averages, the Niners landed Crabtree in the upper end of the #10 slot when looking at plausible outcome of the escalators in the Crabtree and Raji deals. That much is obvious if analyzing this by comparing apples to apples.

I'm sure Parker got some concessions that were important to him, but in the end the Niners did what they set out to do.

I'm still ticked that this deal didn't get done in July. This is where I see genuine bad faith from Parker in that I believe he was counting on gaining leverage by virtue of a poor start by the Niners and when that didn't happen he had to come into town with hat in hand and negotiate a deal that could have been done much earlier.

I'm with you on that. Its really too bad Crabtree wasn't in TC and isn't likely going to be in a position to contribute for some weeks, at the earliest.

Given his talent I expect that he will contribute some this year, though.

As to whether it was Parker or Crabtree himself that was behind the holdout, I doubt that we'll ever really know, but the scenario you present is a likely as any.

IMO, Parker's responsibility at this point is to take as much of the criticism as he possibly can. The thing that keeps getting lost in this is that he made Crabtree look bad. Whether it's just or unjust, his client's public perception took a hit as the result of these negotiations. This is important because if Crabtree is the player that I hope he is, he's going to have more companies asking for him to endorse their product.

At this point, those companies aren't going to touch him with a ten foot pole, and when they do approach him the terms of the deal are going to be less favorable than they would be if he signed in July and was playing well for a resurgent 3-1 team.

This is another angle in which Parker lost...at least for the time being.

I was never upset with either Parker or Crabtree for trying to get the best contract that they could. I just thought it was an extremely poor move from a strategic standpoint, and I think the eventual contract and resulting public perception are confirmation of that.

Originally posted by valrod33:

Wow, that's gnarly!

Originally posted by ghostrider:

Originally posted by itlynstalyn:

Quote:
Re: Michael Crabtree Contract Article‏
From: Andrew Brandt ([email protected])
Sent: Thu 10/08/09 12:59 PM
To: xxxxx xxxxxxx ([email protected])

Getting asked a lot about who won and lost. In my experience, never about that, not going there. Thanks.

Brandt's response to my question as to who won or lost in the negotiation. Sorry MD, but even Andrew "Cap Expert" Brant won't go there to make a definitive judgment.

That's pretty good.